Materialism.. consciousness and AI

[Claymoree]

They are not, but they are, anyway I agree with you ,but  not sure if you understand me.

Do you know what your life means? 

[ajai]

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

Or at least not in the ordinary sense of what we understand from the word consciousness (the opposite of the blankness of deep sleep ).

We need not infer anything about Reality from what we understand ordinarily. The opposite of the blankness of deep sleep- Consciousness❌ (This statement is absolutely False.)

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

I'm not aware if science created self-aware robots

Whose application is it then? What do you think?

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

Materialism basically says that reality is unconscious in it's "essence" .. It's made up of atoms and molecules.. And those are not what you think they are lol. They are not the phenomenon ofcourse or those pictures that you see in science books (because the phenomenon is Consciousness =qualia lol )..

How do you know, those are not what you see in Science books?

What do you mean by Unconscious?

What are Atoms and Molecules?

What is a Phenomenon?

7 hours ago, Someone here said:

They are hidden metaphysical aspects

How can you say that with such a conviction, How do you know what is Metaphysical?

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

a question I have about materialism and it's absurd explanation for consciousness.

What is Materialism?

What is Consciousness?

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

Materialism basically says that reality is unconscious in it's "essence"

What do you mean by Essence?

In which Science Textbook it's written that Atoms and Molecules are Unconscious?

7 hours ago, Someone here said:

What would creating self-aware robots mean to our understanding of consciousness?

Answer to that question could only be known, if you understand what is Consciousness? and what do you understand by Self-aware and what does it mean?

[Mindflow]

We’re obviously a black hole/resonant energy falling inward and out of itself in a super fractal that happens to exist because of the idea of nothingness and infinities grasp. 

[AtheisticNonduality]

12 hours ago, diamondpenguin said:

@AtheisticNonduality big bubba my brotha atheist man. You sound like you know a lot about the atheist paradigm. Tell me why and how the education system concocted this brainwashing mechanism of everything is atoms. Because I was around town the other day and this one 8 year old was screaming at me. Hey have you ever heard of atoms. Look at this, it's all made of atoms. I have never seen an atom my entire life. And science seems to worship this thing called atoms. So tell me why they brainwash kids with this and how it came to be. Thanks brotha. 

 

11 hours ago, Someone here said:

What brain? I'm serious lol.. the only brain you can see is a brain within consciousness.. The brain that you think is generating  from outside of consciousness is something you have  never seen and will/can never see. It's 100% belief and fantasy. 

Because money is made of atoms.

[Someone here]

9 hours ago, ajai said:

How do you know, those are not what you see in Science books?

Because by definition of materialists themselves.. The atoms that you see are not the atoms that are behind consciousness because the atoms that you see are merely perceptions of atoms.. They are not the "real atoms behind scenes" which ofcourse no one has ever seen or will ever see. That's the absurdity and circular logic of materialism. 

 

9 hours ago, ajai said:

What do you mean by unconscious? 

That's the whole point! No one knows anything except consciousness. You gotta ask those those materialists what do you mean that the basic stuff of reality is unconscious. 

 

9 hours ago, ajai said:

What are Atoms and Molecules

Consciousness apparently. But materialists say they are something magical behind the scenes. 

 

9 hours ago, ajai said:

What is a phenomenon? 

Sight sound touch smell taste thought. 

 

9 hours ago, ajai said:

What is materialism? 

Google it. 

 

9 hours ago, ajai said:

What is Consciousness? 

This. 

 

9 hours ago, ajai said:

In which science textbook it's written that atoms and molecules are unconscious? 

All science books. Pick up any neuroscience book and read how they explain consciousness. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Someone here

[Someone here]

11 hours ago, Claymoree said:

Do you know what your life means? 

Yes. What about it lol? 

[ajai]

42 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Google it.

I asked you, everyone has Google at their disposal but I'm not interested in those definitions, I'm interested in your meaning of it and what meaning you conform with?

So if you'd like to tell,

What is Materialism?

What is Consciousness?

[Someone here]

24 minutes ago, ajai said:

 

So if you'd like to tell,

What is Materialism?

What is Consciousness?

Materialism or otherwise known as naive realism is a metaphysical philosophy known as substance-dualism. That reality is split into two different substance. One is the appearances or phenomenon or consciousness or qualia (this stuff right here)..which is a second order emergence from the essence which is matter. That matter has no phenomenonolgical qualities. It's not conscious yet it gives arise to consciousness. 

Consciousness is simply everything and anything. This is Consciousness. That is consciousness. You are consciousness. And it can't be "defined" because there is nothing which is not consciousness to define consciousness in terms of it. That's why it's a mystery. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Someone here

[Moksha]

Materialism only realizes part of the circle. Matter doesn't give rise to Consciousness. Consciousness imbues itself into matter, and gives rise to itself.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Moksha

[LastThursday]

On 10/11/2020 at 11:30 PM, Someone here said:

What would creating self-aware robots mean to our understanding of consciousness? 

This is the "Duck Test". Or if you prefer the "Turing Test". 

If the robot were to walk and talk like it had consciousness and self awareness, then for all intents and purposes it has consciousness and self awareness. It's a philosophical question whether it has a conscious inner life, not a practical one.

Actually, you are applying the Duck Test whenever you interact with people. You are mapping their speech and movements and form to yours and concluding that they too are experiencing what you are experiencing, a.k.a. consciousness. But, you will never know.

Even if you magically expanded the reach of your consciousness to enter the "mind" of another person, that still wouldn't answer the question. Instead you would be some sort of hybrid consciousness, neither the original you or the original them.

This is akin to the measurement problem in quantum physics. You can't measure the state of a system without disturbing the system. More accurately, whenever you measure a system, you are merging with it, to create a hybrid system. You can't disentangle the observer from the observed.

Edited November 12, 2020 by LastThursday

[Gesundheit]

You seem to assume that just because you can't imagine consciousness emerging out of unconscious objects that it can't. But says who? Don't confuse the limits of your imagination with reality. Just because God exists does not disprove materialism. It could be the case that consciousness is a material by-product that has developed over time out of material objects that have developed over time out of nothing. That nothing is the ultimate God that does not have qualities, and is not even conscious, therefore it can take any shape or form. In this case, it happens to take the form of "consciousness". So consciousness is not God but just a tiny part of it.

I'd like anyone to challenge this perspective.