Materialism.. consciousness and AI

[Someone here]

a question I have about materialism and it's absurd explanation for consciousness. Maybe @Leo Gurayou could address this question in part 4. 

Materialism basically says that reality is unconscious in it's "essence" .. It's made up of atoms and molecules.. And those are not what you think they are lol. They are not the phenomenon ofcourse or those pictures that you see in science books (because the phenomenon is Consciousness =qualia lol ).. They are hidden metaphysical aspects which are the essence of reality that no one has ever seen or can ever see lol ..and they are  unconscious. And SOMEHOW those unconscious elements developed consciousness lol. Ofcourse this is absurdly funny. It's like saying I have put some rocks together.. And those rocks somehow turned into a unicorn lol.  It doesn't make sense how inherently unconscious reality developed consciousness. 

On the other side there is a problem with artificial intelligence. I'm not aware if science created self-aware robots (robots that have perception) (i guess not) .. But if they did.. Wouldn't that be actually suggesting that this phenomenon that we call consciousness (Color sound smell taste touch thought) are actually being generated from a basic underlying "matter" that is inherently not "conscious". Or at least not in the ordinary sense of what we understand from the word consciousness (the opposite of the blankness of deep sleep ). What would creating self-aware robots mean to our understanding of consciousness? 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Someone here

[Moksha]

Very cool video on this that was posted last week, in case you missed it:

 

[The0Self]

^^

And consciousness is just a label we give to describe the apparent transfer of information (which is all there appears to be). The "conscious agent" term that Donald Hoffman (above vid) uses is synonymous with Culadasa's "natural individual."

[Osaid]

I think humans count as self-aware robots tbh. I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible to create a new conscious experience out of consciousness. I mean, that's what humans are. The duality between robot and non-robot starts to collapse because it seems to be a superficial duality in the first place.

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Someone here said:

And SOMEHOW those unconscious elements developed consciousness lol. Ofcourse this is absurdly funny. It's like saying I have put some rocks together.. And those rocks somehow turned into a unicorn lol.  It doesn't make sense how inherently unconscious reality developed consciousness. 

This is known as the hard problem of consciousness or the mind/body problem.

It's a classic philosophical problem that goes back at least 400 years.

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But if they did.. Wouldn't that be actually suggesting that this phenomenon that we call consciousness (Color sound smell taste touch thought) are actually being generated from a basic underlying "matter" that is inherently not "conscious".

Not at all.

Computers are made of consciousness already, since atoms are made of consciousness. Everything is always made of consciousness. The only question is, How is the consciousness behaving? And you can make it behave however you want.

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What would creating self-aware robots mean to our understanding of consciousness? 

It wouldn't mean anything since the entire universe is self-aware and conscious at all times.

[AtheisticNonduality]

The unconscious components are conscious in a certain arrangement, brains and maybe future robots for example. That's the materialist model.

[electroBeam]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

 

On the other side there is a problem with artificial intelligence. I'm not aware if science created self-aware robots (robots that have perception) (i guess not) .. But if they did.. Wouldn't that be actually suggesting that this phenomenon that we call consciousness (Color sound smell taste touch thought) are actually being generated from a basic underlying "matter" that is inherently not "conscious". Or at least not in the ordinary sense of what we understand from the word consciousness (the opposite of the blankness of deep sleep ). What would creating self-aware robots mean to our understanding of consciousness? 

 but what you're not seeing is you're creating the duality between conscious vs unconscious. Go and try and verify an actual difference between something conscious and something unconscious. Sure you can say a rock is unconscious and a human isn't... but where's your evidence for that? How you know people are not philosophical zombies and as a corollary how do you know rocks don't feel, see and hear you in the same way you feel hear and see me. Shamans can access the spirit of rocks, so its definitely not wild speculation. 

[diamondpenguin]

@AtheisticNonduality big bubba my brotha atheist man. You sound like you know a lot about the atheist paradigm. Tell me why and how the education system concocted this brainwashing mechanism of everything is atoms. Because I was around town the other day and this one 8 year old was screaming at me. Hey have you ever heard of atoms. Look at this, it's all made of atoms. I have never seen an atom my entire life. And science seems to worship this thing called atoms. So tell me why they brainwash kids with this and how it came to be. Thanks brotha. 

[Someone here]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not at all.

Computers are made of consciousness already, since atoms are made of consciousness. Everything is always made of consciousness. The only question is, How is the consciousness behaving? And you can make it behave however you want.

 you mean in the sense that there cannot be atoms unless there is a consciousness of atoms?  

 

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

. I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible to create a new conscious experience out of consciousness. 

Haha thread closed. That's brilliant lol. 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

 but what you're not seeing is you're creating the duality between conscious vs unconscious. Go and try and verify an actual difference between something conscious and something unconscious. Sure you can say a rock is unconscious and a human isn't... but where's your evidence for that? How you know people are not philosophical zombies and as a corollary how do you know rocks don't feel, see and hear you in the same way you feel hear and see me. Shamans can access the spirit of rocks, so its definitely not wild speculation. 

You're epistemological nihilist bro. Ofcourse there are dozens of assumptions here. But I can't go prove to you every single one of them. You just gotta take some stuff superficially as they appear to be. Nothing suggests that rock hears or sees because it got no ears and eyes. If you claim otherwise you gotta prove it. 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

The unconscious components are conscious in a certain arrangement, brains and maybe future robots for example. That's the materialist model.

What brain? I'm serious lol.. the only brain you can see is a brain within consciousness.. The brain that you think is generating  from outside of consciousness is something you have  never seen and will/can never see. It's 100% belief and fantasy. 

[electroBeam]

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You're epistemological nihilist in paradise bro. 

 

[Someone here]

@electroBeam  the boogeyman under your bed bruh.. Who knows gotta check it daily jk lol 

[electroBeam]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@electroBeam  the boogeyman under your bed bruh.. Who knows gotta check it daily jk lol 

You'll regret that statement once you have a trip or meditation experience that shows you your bed is just as real as that boogeyman. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

You'll regret that statement once you have a trip or meditation experience that shows you your bed is just as real as that boogeyman. 

What bed? You are referring to it and saying it is not real in the same breath.. You are Infinitely hilarious bro.  

Put the psychedelics down for a while. 

[Claymoree]

there clearly would be no experience of things around you without your brain, this experience is clearly built on set of things it follows. 

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Claymoree said:

there clearly would be no experience of things around you without your brain, this experience is clearly built on set of things it follows. 

The brain can't be generating experience.. What you call the brain is itself an experience.. You can't say that this piece of meat is what is causing experience because that piece of meat IS an experience.  Ponder this. What should be generating the experience from outside can't be an experience . It's a strange loop. 

[abrakamowse]

The brain is made of the same material that the things around you. So , the brain observes itself cause is the same thing that is observing???

?

[Claymoree]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

The brain can't be generating experience.. What you call the brain is itself an experience.. You can't say that this piece of meat is what is causing experience because that piece of meat IS an experience.  Ponder this. What should be generating the experience from outside can't be an experience . It's a strange loop. 

Nothing strange about it, your experience will end without brain, does not mean that information will be lost, but your life. 

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Claymoree said:

Nothing strange about it, your experience will end without brain, does not mean that information will be lost, but your life. 

Nothing found inside of your experience can be the cause of your experience from outside. Just like the cause of the entire video game world which is the PS device can't be found inside the video game world.

It's like looking at your own body with a microscope.. Sure you will find some cells and atoms in there.. But those themselves are phenomenon within your experience aka consciousness.. You can't say that atoms or brains are generating consciousness.. Because atoms and brains ARE consciousness.  U dig that lol?