Sadhguru saying "Drugs will lead to America's Downfall"

[Frosty97]

 

@Leo Gura

What are your thoughts on this?

I think there should be a separation between drugs like coke,meth and psychedelics. And treat them differently.

[Leo Gura]

Firstly, on a strictly practical level, the war on drugs has been an abysmal racist failure. Countries which decriminalize drugs, even the worst drugs like meth and heroin, end up doing better, having less death, violence, and addiction. This has been scientifically measured.

Secondly, very very very few people will ever be able to develop the intoxication factory that Sadhguru is talking about. Less than 1% of the population will do it. Less than 1% of the population will awaken. For the other 99%, psychedelics are now scientifically proven to provide many benefits such a reducing depression, PTSD, social anxiety, fear of death, addiction recovery, anger reduction, healing childhood trauma, etc. This very important stuff strictly from a medical, social, and political perspective.

Thirdly, psychedelics open the doorway to mystical experience. Most people don't even believe mysticism is real. So they will never discover it through Sadhguru's methods. Psychedelics offer a way to access what Sadhguru is teaching in a more direct, scientific way.

Fourthly, you will never naturally reach the level of consciousness possible via psychedelics using Sadhguru's methods. Never.

Fifthly, of course coke and meth should be distinguished from psychedelics. To talk about these in the same conversation is absurd. We should treat coke and meth differently in that we should help people get off them and onto psychedelics instead. But total decriminalization is the way to go for all drugs. We have tried 50 years of prohibition and it's failed spectacularly.

Sixthly, once you get your hands on the right psychedelics, you will never need to listen to Sadhguru or any guru again. Psychedelics are a far better guru than a human could ever be. The only reason human gurus exist is because the psychedelic guru has been criminalized and demonized. Psychedelics serve an important function in deconstructing the spiritual and religion cults which inevitably arise around gurus. Once Sadhguru is dead, his organization will turn into just another cult religion. And his followers will become devils. Psychedelics are an antidote to that.

Sadhguru sounds wise here, but he's actually being dumb, impractical, and misleading his followers.

[Consilience]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Firstly of all, on a strictly practical level, the war on drugs has been an abysmal racist failure. Countries which decriminalize drugs, even the worst drugs like meth and heroin, end up doing better, having less death and violence. This has been scientifically measured.

Secondly, very very very few people will ever be able to develop the intoxication factory that Sadhguru is talking about. Less than 1% of the population will do it. Less than 1% of the population will awake. For the other 99%, psychedelics are now scientifically proven to provide many benefits such a reducing depression, PTSD, social anxiety, fear of death, addiction recovery, etc. This a very important stuff strictly from a medical and social perspective.

Thirdly, psychedelics open the doorway to mystical experience. Most people don't even believe mysticism is real. So they will never discover it through Sadhguru's methods. Psychedelics offer a way to access what Sadhguru is teaching in a more direct, scientific way.

Fourthly, you will never naturally reach the level of consciousness possible via psychedelics using Sadhguru's methods. Never.

Fifthly, of course coke and meth should be distinguished from psychedelics. To talk about these in the same conversation is absurd. We should treat coke and meth differently in that we should help people get off them and onto psychedelics instead. But total decriminalization is the way to go for all drugs. We have tried 50 years of prohibition and it's failed spectacularly.

/thread 

[PenguinPablo]

@Leo Gura I feel like you have a massive commitment bias towards psyches and it continues to develop further with every comment you make. 

[Leo Gura]

Just now, PenguinPablo said:

@Leo Gura I feel like you have a massive commitment bias towards psyches and it continues to develop further with every comment you make. 

Psychedelics are the future.

This is obvious to anyone who tries them with an open mind.

Psychedelics will revolutionize spirituality, religion, science, society, and politics.

Everything before the psychedelic revolution that's coming will be considered the the Dark Ages. And Sadhguru's words will be on record now as defending the Dark Ages of spirituality. And my words will be on record as one of the early pioneers of the revolution.

[Yali]

@Leo Gura  Can you check your DM? I would like a response before our conversation gets flooded out by the multitude of messages you receive everyday.

[Heart of Space]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics are the future.

This is obvious to anyone who tries them with an open mind.

Psychedelics will revolutionize spirituality, religion, science, society, and politics.

Everything before the psychedelic revolution that's coming will be considered the the Dark Ages. And Sadhguru's words will be on record now as defending the Dark Ages of spirituality. And my words will be on record as one of the early pioneers of the revolution.

You know man, I'm with about half of the way, but I wonder if you've met average people who do psychedelics.  Most of them are complete dipshits, I know I used to be one to a degree.  Most of them aren't serious spiritual seekers who have an intelligent understanding of the world.  I've met some serious degenerates who've done psychedelics.

Just unleashing psychedelics into the world alone is not enough.

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

I wonder if you've met average people who do psychedelics.  Most of them are complete dipshits,

Have you met average people who don't do psychedelics? Most of them are complete dipshits.

70 million Americans voted to reelect Trump.

Yeah, dipshits are our situation. Don't blame that on psychedelics.

[Heart of Space]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Have you met average people who don't do psychedelics? Most of them are complete dipshits.

70 million Americans voted to reelect Trump.

Yeah, dipshits are our situation. Don't blame that on psychedelics.

I don't blame the psychedelics.  I just am opposed to the narrative that they will completely save the world from dipshittery.  

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

I don't blame the psychedelics.  I just am opposed to the narrative that they will completely save the world from dipshittery.  

Of course they won't. They are a tool.

Any tool in the hands of an idiot will be used for evil and devilry.

But meditation and yoga are also tools, so watch your double-standards.

How would you like it if I came out and said that spiritual organizations like Sadhguru's will lead to America's downfall and that we should criminalize spiritual organizing and gurus, and we will especially hunt down the brown skinned ones and lock them in cages.

[Lyubov]

Don't take good ol' Sadhguru's word as definitive gospel. He's a great guy and has a ton of wisdom but even he has his own ignorances. He has a bit of an old man drugs bad complex. He grew up in India where this stuff is super illegal and unheard of by his generation. He also released a video recently about the concept of self love and how he thinks it is an ineffective/faulty method for growth. Even geniuses sometimes get stuff wrong. 

[Heart of Space]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course they won't. They are a tool.

Any tool in the hands of an idiot will be used for evil and devilry.

But meditation and yoga are also tools, so watch your double-standards.

How would you like it if I came out and said that spiritual organizations like Sadhguru's will lead to America's downfall and that we should criminalize spiritual organizing and gurus, and we will especially hunt down the brown skinned ones.

I don't disagree with your fundamental point.  I guess I was only expressing that I was less "bullish" so to speak on psychedelics as a tool for spiritual progress or as a catalytist to transform civilization.  Perhaps splitting hairs on my part.

[Leo Gura]

@Heart of Space You are right to be concerned. The first psychedelic revolution didn't live up to its promises. But I think the second psychedelic revolution can go much better. We were not ready in the 1960s.

[Jacob Morres]

21 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

self love and how he thinks it is an ineffective/faulty method for growth

bleh... 

self-love is phenomenal place to start for growth from my pov

it allows space to heal and grow 

 

perhaps though, there is nugget of truth in that statement though... when is self love not useful? what are the other ways of growing? etc. 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Jacob Morres

[AcaciaConfusa]

@Leo Gura i get your point, but if you believe you cant reach such levels of consciousness without psychedelics then you also got stuck in your mind.  I mean, i just don't know. I read about yogis/swamis from the past and their healing, clairvoyant abilities seem more developed than the natives from south/latin america, who were using psychedelics since thousands of years.

[Leo Gura]

@AcaciaConfusa Look, dude, you ain't a one in a billion magical yogi.

Stop assuming you will ever reach that kind of worldclass level. People like that are genetic freaks born with special hardware that you do not have.

[Sam Johnson]

@Leo Gura

what exactly do you mean by „genetic freaks born with Speacial hardware?“ 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

@Sam Johnson There is a bell curve of spiritual capacity that humans have. From spiritual retards to gods.

For example, I've met people who were born awakened and live multiple live simutaneously in parallel from birth.

Stop assuming that other humans are like you. Their consciousness can be totally different than yours.

An advanced yogi is gonna be in the top 1% of the spiritual bell curve with zero practice. And then he will add 1000s of hours of practice on top of that. So you, an average guy, have no hope of attaining his level naturally.

It's like you think you can play basketball against Shaquiel O'Neil.

[Sam Johnson]

@Leo Gura

What you say makes a lot of sense. Do you think that comes down to different brain structures, hormones and neurons? What exactly is it? 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Sam Johnson said:

@Leo Gura

What you say makes a lot of sense. Do you think that comes down to different brain structures, hormones and neurons? What exactly is it? 

I don't know exactly. Genetics certainly plays a huge role in determining your baseline neurotransmitter cocktail.

If we knew how to edit genes, we might be able to increase your baseline consciousness by a factor of 1000x.