Using I in Language

[Raptorsin7]

If I is just a thought, how can you use I in speaking in a way that is true.

For example, If I say I love you to someone. Technically, it's not true because I is just a thought and not capable of love. But if the I refers back to being or what is prior to thought, then I guess it can make sense to say I love you if it is known that I is referring to the feeling self. 

How can someone know what exactly is referenced when using I in their thinking. The I can refer to the body-mind. The I can refer to the sense of being. The I also seems like it can exist as a self contained entity that just exists in thinking. Anyone have any ideas on how to reconcile the use of I in language.

It comes back to the fact that YOU cannot think-feeling. So saying stuff like I feel like _____, in some sense doesn't work because that entire sentence can be contained in just thought. But YOU can feeling-thinking. So if I say, I love _____, that entire thought can be felt by YOU. 

My goal is to think in a way that is most in alignment with feeling. And based on my LSD trips and past experience, most of the thought-feeling relationship is based on the unconscious thought patterns involving the I thought. I think the precision really matters here so i want to nail it down.

If anyone can provide insight here that would be great, or if you think i'm missing something or you can see the bigger picture of what i'm doing or what i'm getting wrong that would be great too.

[The0Self]

I think trying to make something inherently dualistic (namely language) into something it's not will leave you disappointed.

[Carl-Richard]

Don't overthink it.

[Raptorsin7]

@The0Self I want to understand to best use language and thinking in a way that feels good and doesn't lead to unnecessary suffering. I was on a walk today and I noticed how my mind was just going and it didn't feel good. I'm pretty sure my habits of thinking are so out of alignment that the default thinking patterns are like slapping me every time they go off.

If my thinking was all about murdering, raping, looting etc i'm assuming that would have a huge impact on how I felt. I think the same is true of my thinking now, just to a lesser degree.

[Moksha]

As long as your heart is beating, You are still You: the holy trinity of Atman, body, and mind. Jesus said, "I Am", and you can say the same.

When You kick the bucket, there will be no more "I". So enjoy the unique You that You are.

[Raptorsin7]

@Moksha I'm inspecting thought because I'm not enjoying the experience. You could say enjoy the unique you that you are too virtually anybody, but there are levels to how good life can be.

[Moksha]

@Raptorsin7 Do you mean there is some confusion about the person you experience as "I"? Have you realized yourself directly as Consciousness? If so, is it that you are having a hard time integrating that realization with having a body and a mind? Can you give us a few more details?

[Raptorsin7]

@Moksha I am not self realized. I've had the sense of self behind the eyes dissolve on LSD a bunch of times, so i have a sense of what i'm looking for in terms of spiritual growth but I can't get there sober yet. 

I am trying to bring my thinking into alignment with how I feel. I want to think in a positive, healthy way. One thing i noticed from my LSD trips is how my thinking becomes clearer and how much more sensitive I am to thinking patterns in general. 

There's the thinking pattern of a person completely believing their mind, and believing they are identical with the mind. I can recognize I am aware of the mind/thought, but I'm not sure how to reconcile this understanding with thinking.

For example, You could say in thinking... " I feel like going to the mall", but if you believe are fully identified with the I, then it makes no sense to say that because the I thought cannot feel.

I'm trying to adjust my thinking in a way that best matches what is actually real, because I think if thinking is not alignment with reality then you will suffer from the ignorance.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I want to think in a positive, healthy way.

This is an unrealistic goal. Let your thoughts be.

[The0Self]

You don’t think, thoughts arise. I’ll assume you’re past that though and can play along: perhaps try thought replacement in the form of Metta and self-compliments. Or just meditate, but don’t full-stop meditating when you arise from the cushion. Recharge that mindfulness throughout the day and when each meditation session (even if it’s 5min) ends, try to continue it somewhat in your daily activities. Or just relax, not that “you” can, but if you could, that would be a pretty wise action.

[VeganAwake]

Eckhart Tolle has a lot of great stuff in this area.

 

[Raptorsin7]

@VeganAwake That was a great read, thanks man.

[VeganAwake]

@Raptorsin7 ❤ 

 

[Endangered-EGO]

@Raptorsin7 This is absurd, I never trust those who turn phrases around weirdly, just to avoid using the word "I". Either they are deluded, want to prove they are enlightened, 24/7 or don't understand what language is. Also it is not practical, why bother.

I however have no problem with explaining their non-dual experience like "there is this feeling arising the space of awareness" to describe how they perceive reality differently. But going to the bar and avoiding "I" like "A beer would be nice for my thirst" is just simply ridiculous.

Some people who claim to be enlightened talk like that, no kidding.

[Moksha]

@Raptorsin7 It sounds like you are on a good path. Simply recognizing that your thinking is not in alignment with how you feel is a critical first step.

Rather than bringing your thinking into alignment, try allowing some space between and around the thoughts themselves. Thoughts are less like a wild horse to be tamed, and more like a horse trapped in a stall, that simply needs a spacious pasture in which to roam.

Have you tried meditation? The practice can help you learn to focus on your inner body, and become comfortable with allowing space in your life.

Even simple practices of "no thought" can be useful. For example, do you think about driving from point A to point B, consciously making every choice about which corner to turn, or that red light means "stop"? Or do you just get in your car and drive? Try applying this to other mundane activities in your life. When you get up in the morning, instead of consciously thinking about getting dressed, let your mind relax and just focus on allowing the space within you to arise. Pay attention to the moment, without naming anything. Feel the texture of the fabric as you pull your shirt over your head. Notice the aliveness in your feet as you put on your shoes. You will get dressed without even thinking about it, yet the experience itself can invoke a whole different level of awareness.

The mind tends to get us into trouble more often than not. Learning to be aware, beyond thought, is a pathway to peace.

[Mvrs]

13 hours ago, Moksha said:

As long as your heart is beating, You are still You: the holy trinity of Atman, body, and mind. Jesus said, "I Am", and you can say the same.

When You kick the bucket, there will be no more "I". So enjoy the unique You that You are.

Wait a minute I might be wrong but I just realized isn’t @Moksha the name of the monk that got reincarnated as a moose that eats fucks and sleeps all day ?????

[Moksha]

@Mvrs How appropriate 

[Carl-Richard]

The idea that "I" should be avoided is a thought.

[VeganAwake]

"The greatest minds in human history have often pointed to levels of thought beyond the limited self structure. 

Einstein said “The true measure of a human being is determined primarily by the measure and sense in which he has attained liberation from the self.” 

So it’s not that thinking and the existence of the self is bad, thinking is a wonderful tool when the mind is in service to the heart.

In Vedanta it is said that the mind makes a good servant but a poor master. The ego perpetually filters reality through language and labels, and is constantly judging. Preferring one thing over another. When the mind and senses are your master, they will create endless suffering, endless craving and aversion, locking us into the matrix of thinking"

-- Samadhi (Maya illusion of the self)

[Moksha]

12 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

In Vedanta it is said that the mind makes a good servant but a poor master.

Yes  To use the mind, rather than being used by it, is to live Consciously. The mind then becomes a magnifying lens for creativity and abundance, rather than a magnifying lens for confusion and suffering.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Moksha