How do you abandon all perspectives and narratives?

[Raphael Giampietro]

Hey guys, how's it going?

So, for the last few months, it's becoming quite clear to me that the way to enlightenment is to abandon all perspectives, narratives and memories.

Problem is, I don't know how nor do I know if I'm correct.

Can you guys help?

@Leo also if you could clarify a bit on this, I'd be extremely thankful.

Thanks y'all

 

[Shin]

Meditate a lot, contemplate a lot, be a lot in nature just existing, question everything that seems obvious and realize you have no clue if it is true (except a belief).

Eventually you'll reach a point where you can't even be sure if you actually exist, if the world exist and if death exist or birth exist.

?

[Moksha]

@Raphael Giampietro Welcome to the forum!

You don't have to completely abandon all perspectives, just don't identify with them. Enlightenment isn't threatened by personalities or opinions, if you see them for what they are. You can enjoy discussions with others, comparing "your" ideas to "their" ideas, just recognize that they are only ideas, and not reality. If you feel that you need to defend an opinion in any way, that is a red flag

Perspectives, narratives, and memories are all forms of attachment. Beyond these, any desire or aversion that you identify with, ultimately has power over you.

See all these things for what they are, and don't confuse them with who You are. The more you realize Consciousness in your life, the more these attachments will dissolve, like the sun dissipating clouds in the sky.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Moksha

[flume]

You choose the ones that feel good until you feel safe enough to slowly evolve without them. By learning to trust yourself you’ll realise that you don’t need to grip them so tightly anymore. Once you don’t feel the need to abandon and deny anything anymore (including you being a person with memories, perspectives and narratives), they’ll naturally wither out of your experience. Forcefully trying to throw them out just leads to concepts-layering (like ‘no concept’)… You’ll never rid yourself of these things wilfully… You mature beyond them by being interested in why they’re here and how they’re serving you (essentially the same thing). Befriend them and you’ll soon be able to see beyond them.

38 minutes ago, Moksha said:

You don't have to completely abandon all perspectives, just don't identify with them. Enlightenment isn't threatened by personalities or opinions, if you see them for what they are. You can enjoy discussions with others, comparing "your" ideas to "their" ideas, just recognize that they are only ideas, and not reality. If you feel that you need to defend an opinion in any way, that is a red flag

Spot on!

[Willie]

Hmmmmmmmm, I was under the impression it involved inclusion of all perspectives. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Willie

[VeganAwake]

8 hours ago, Raphael Giampietro said:

Hey guys, how's it going?

So, for the last few months, it's becoming quite clear to me that the way to enlightenment is to abandon all perspectives, narratives and memories.

Problem is, I don't know how nor do I know if I'm correct.

Can you guys help?

@Leo also if you could clarify a bit on this, I'd be extremely thankful.

Thanks y'all

 

This is where you have to look for yourself and be your own judge.

Do these culturally conditioned perspectives and narratives hold up under close scrutiny.

After all if you were born in Kuwait for example, you would have a different name and a completely different set of perspectives and narratives, beliefs etc...

When the sense of "self" is recognized to be no more than culturally conditioned thoughts identified with for the past 20 plus years it can get very wobbly and more fluid like than the solid entity once previously identified with. ❤

[Someone here]

On 11/9/2020 at 11:35 PM, Raphael Giampietro said:

Hey guys, how's it going?

So, for the last few months, it's becoming quite clear to me that the way to enlightenment is to abandon all perspectives, narratives and memories.

Problem is, I don't know how nor do I know if I'm correct.

Can you guys help

This is true. Enlightenment is more of a destructive process instead of a gaining process. You gotta empty yourself. And return to the purity of your being. 

As for your question.. Perhaps you can notice that you don't hold any perspectives. You don't believe in anything already. Right now if you are not thinking about it.. There is nothing in your mind. And that's it. Perspectives are thoughts arising and going. There is no separate self holding a perspective. In that sense you are already enlightened. Without any perspectives. It's actually effortless to not believe in anything. Because it's impossible to hold a belief in the first place! You are free ?

[VeganAwake]

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

This is true. Enlightenment is more of a destructive process instead of a gaining process.

Its not even really destructive, its more of a recognition that these conditioned thoughts are not owned by anybody. When this is directly realized the energy and attention/identification that is usually given to these thoughts is dramatically decreased. They become the background instead of the forefront.

You gotta empty yourself. And return to the purity of your being.

The emptying in a sense is the recognition that these thoughts are simply arising due to the bodies social conditioning. There is no "me" to become empty. The "me" WAS the identification with these socially conditioned thoughts all along.

As for your question.. Perhaps you can notice that you don't hold any perspectives. You don't believe in anything already. Right now if you are not thinking about it.. There is nothing in your mind. And that's it. Perspectives are thoughts arising and going. There is no separate self holding a perspective.

Exactly, if thinking is not occurring, then there's nothing to identify with. But once it resumes, the identification begins again.

This is why it's important to SEE what's taking place directly. It can be spoken about and intellectually understood all day long, but until it's directly SEEN, it stays as just a story or cool idea.

In that sense you are already enlightened.

Yes, Well of course nobody becomes enlightened because Enlightenment is the disillusionment of the "self".

Without any perspectives. It's actually effortless to not believe in anything.

It's not that perspectives totally disappear, it's that they are now recognized as being products of conditioned thoughts identified with as "my perspectives".

Because it's impossible to hold a belief in the first place! You are free ?

Exactly, there's nothing there in which could hold a belief. 

❤

 

[tsuki]

It's not necessary, desirable, or probably even possible to abandon all perspectives, narratives or memories permanently.

Experiences of long stillness may be helpful in seeing what lies beneath what we conventionally call "reality", but these experiences often are made into objects of clinging and elevated as "spiritual" as opposed to "mundane".  It is much more helpful to learn to be equanimous in the presence of various experiences and seeing them for what they really are. It is, of course, easier when you have a solid point of reference accessed in meditation.

I highly suggest watching Shinzen Young's videos on equanimity because it is an easily misunderstood topic.

[Inliytened1]

On 11/9/2020 at 2:35 PM, Raphael Giampietro said:

Hey guys, how's it going?

So, for the last few months, it's becoming quite clear to me that the way to enlightenment is to abandon all perspectives, narratives and memories.

 

notice that this in itself is a perspective....you see as long as you are thinking you can't escape having a POV.   In fact you ARE the POV!   Don't make it over complicated...that's just what the ego wants....  Just conduct a curious investigation....i.e. mediate, do self inquiry, etc..(leverage the tools laid out)...Awakening is Pure Being - which is prior to thought.

 

[Moksha]

6 hours ago, tsuki said:

Experiences of long stillness may be helpful in seeing what lies beneath what we conventionally call "reality", but these experiences often are made into objects of clinging and elevated as "spiritual" as opposed to "mundane".  It is much more helpful to learn to be equanimous in the presence of various experiences and seeing them for what they really are. It is, of course, easier when you have a solid point of reference accessed in meditation.

Yes  This is the meaning of even-mindedness, or the realization of serenity.

Everything is just a form. Thoughts and beliefs are forms. Drives and appetites are forms. Addictions and emotions are forms. The entire physical world, including our own body, is a multiplicity of forms.

Waking up doesn't banish the forms. It is the dawning of Consciousness, which reveals all forms to be the illusion that they are.

This realization is the beginning of enlightenment. When the light shines long enough, the forms become so distant and so transparent, that they no longer have any attachment to you.

You directly realize that every duality is necessary. There is no good without evil, no foreground without background, no existence without non-existence. With infinite expression, these dualities eventuate in transience. Transience is illusion.

That realization is what ultimately liberates us. We no longer resist the inevitable, or are identified by it. We transcend the illusion. The massive energy that used to feed our false identity is sucked back into the Self, like a collapsing black hole. You become the infinitely creative Consciousness that You always are. Welcome back to Singularity.