What was there before "i" was born?

[arlin]

I know what you all will say.

That "i" was never born. That's fine. There can be a realization like that here. I realized the past is imaginary and this is not coming from anywhere. BUT. 

There is a body here,or an apparent one. And that body is changing, so, it was an infant at some point and at some point it didn't exist.

So where the fuck was "i" before i was born? What was "this" reality like, before i was born? I struggle with that because i have no memory of it (of course).

Was "this" alive before a "me" came here? Or did it become that way only after a "me" appeared?

I guess i struggle also with "sleep" of course the body sleeps.

I see others sleeping and i go to sleep at night. And then i wake up. So where was the "i" when the body slept? 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by arlin

[Gesundheit]

It was there all along. Or at least that's what it seemed from the mystical experience I once had. I experienced being a fetus or a sperm or something like that. It felt so warm.

Here:

I was listening to this on headphones and then it happened.

[Nahm]

Through meditation (the middle way), thought attachment is surrendered. Thoughts like body, I, here, there, before, born, where, memory, me, sleep, others, reality, etc. As such awakening is, already was and will eternally be, and there is but to consciously create and celebrate. 

[tsuki]

The point is not that "I" was never really there. The point is to understand what is the experience that the I-concept really points towards. It indeed does point towards something that is prior to the body, or even prior to the I-concept itself. It does not matter what is the "answer" in terms of "talking about the experience", or "listing its characteristics". Descriptions won't do it justice.

[arlin]

@Gesundheit I actually have a vivid memory of being a fetus....

but before that i have nothing....

@tsuki I didn't understand this. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, arlin said:

So where the fuck was "i" before i was born?

If you were conscious of that, you'd be awake.

You were exactly what you are now and will always be: Infinity

Look within.

P.S. You might want to ask, where the fuck are you after being born? Don't take this place you are for granted

[tsuki]

@arlin "I" is a concept that was invented long after the birth of the body. All concepts either refer to actual experience, or are made up and don't. The concept "teapot" points towards something. "I" concept points towards something. What that "thing" is, was before the "I" concept was invented. It was before the body was born. What is the thing that the "I"-concept points towards?

Edited November 9, 2020 by tsuki

[Nahm]

6 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Descriptions won't do it justice. ?? 

[mandyjw]

present, pre sent from Latin prae- (“pre-”) + esse (“to be”).

present, give, your life is not a gift, it is not a noun, it is giving itself. 

You are a verb, not a noun. 

[arlin]

@Leo Gura Im conscious that im void. if i meditate now, which i wont, i can go further and my whole reality would fall apart witht the past not existing (im creating my past right now)  and no free will realziation (which im getting comfortable with). but then i will dissapear and there is fear. Fear of total surrender.

At that point will be total annihilation as though nothing is happening but everything is full and not understandable (but recognized by the void).

But there will still be "this", a body, tree, sounds of birds, etc. "This".

Now i guess my question is, "this" is still this because the brain is interpreting that way. But when the body dies and there is no more activity of brain. Then The body,tree,sounds of birds will also dissapear. What remains then? I guess you have never seen this also.

Also, i went through the phase of mental breakdown and of going crazy. Now i stopped meditating. I feel i need guidance with this, real life guidance. I need to seek some kind of enlightened master if i want to go further. What would you raccomand leo?

[Guest SirVladimir]

Would you invent oblivion only to feel a wisp of wind for the first time again? 

[mandyjw]

@arlin The collapse of the collapse is the only true collapse. If you are there conscious of void or a collapse, or fear, nothing has occurred. Nothing has occurred is always the case. 

My advice, go into Abraham Hick's teachings. Jim Newman and Leo won't make any sense unless you realize the power of focus of desire and love. She will seem like a complete 180 from this stuff, but that's the brilliance of it, she will give you the decoder you need to go deeper. 

[arlin]

@mandyjw Im aware of abraham hick.

What im talking about here, i know you wont believe me. Nothing changed and everything changed and i can go deeper.

I think "i"" have had deep realizations somehow. It's not true what you say. I still have an "i". But there is a realization that it's illusory. Also, thoghts, emotions are not happening to "me". But i won't bother explaining myself if you don't really know what im talking about.

Have you had existencial realizations yes or no?

8 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

The collapse of the collapse is the only true collapse.

This is false from my experience.

[Someone here]

@arlin no mystical nonsense.. Think about it from a physical perspective 

You was both a sperm in your dad's body and an egg in your mom's body.. Well what's before that? You was some protein cells in their lunch.. What's before that? You was some plant probably.. And before that? You was some soil nutrition.. Before that.. You was a corpse of a human being.. Before that you was some human being.  You get where I'm going with this . 

[Leo Gura]

49 minutes ago, arlin said:

@Leo Gura Im conscious that im void. if i meditate now, which i wont, i can go further and my whole reality would fall apart witht the past not existing (im creating my past right now)  and no free will realziation (which im getting comfortable with). but then i will dissapear and there is fear. Fear of total surrender.

At that point will be total annihilation as though nothing is happening but everything is full and not understandable (but recognized by the void).

Yup

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But there will still be "this", a body, tree, sounds of birds, etc. "This".

No!

That's your mistake right there! You are distinguishing that vs this. Stop doing that! This is the same as that.

You are creating a subtle duality between this and that.

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Now i guess my question is, "this" is still this because the brain is interpreting that way.

 

No!

You're imagining this story of brains and things.

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But when the body dies and there is no more activity of brain. Then The body,tree,sounds of birds will also dissapear.

This is imaginary.

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What remains then? I guess you have never seen this also.

What remains is infinite consciousness. Same as always. Just minus the particular forms you are attached to. Consciousness without forms is just empty void. This is the Godhead.

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Also, i went through the phase of mental breakdown and of going crazy. Now i stopped meditating. I feel i need guidance with this, real life guidance. I need to seek some kind of enlightened master if i want to go further. What would you raccomand leo?

Well, awakening is very radical. Yes, it can feel like going insane sometimes. But also, there is a difference. If you feel like you are going to harm yourself, then stop and seek help.

In the end no one can help you awaken but yourself. The enlightened master you seek is just another egoic attachment and failure to take 100% authority over your consciousness as God. No one can make you realize that you're God but you. Since you're God. Ta-da!

[SoonHei]

what was there is what's here now. watching the I that comes and goes, but doesn't stay because there's no room for it's larger than zero ass to linger past an instant in the eternal now.

 

the eternal now is what was there before, during and after.

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, arlin said:

Have you had existencial realizations yes or no?

Yeah, the collapse of the collapse is bliss. If you want to imagine wreckage and void, go for it I guess. When that finally collapses too, it'll just seem all the more amazing. 

[arlin]

@mandyjw i realize that there is a sense of bliss in the total surrender but also fear. But this is allright. 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's your mistake right there! You are distinguishing that vs this. Stop doing that! This is the same as that.

Yeah i can see how if i meditated for example i could see the image in front of my eyes as void and indescribable. Also there is a sense of wander "wow. What is this?... Wow... What is this?!" like "i" am seeing it for the first time.... Was that also your experience? 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You're imagining this story of brains and things.

Mm.. Like there is not a brain so i get it that it's just a story. But leo, when "i" close my eyes and the body goes to "sleep" what the fuck happends there? (just to be clear, im comparing the state of sleep with the death of the body) 

 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is imaginary.

In the sense that it's a story. Right?

Something that the "i" believes. 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Consciousness without forms is just empty void

Allright. 

 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you feel like you are going to harm yourself, then stop and seek help.

Yes exactly. I wanted to hang myself or shoot myself. I called my mom and told her for the first time i was going through "a tough time" and cryied in front of her. I held her hand trying to "please feel like she exists". Really believed i had to go to a psychiatric hospital. But nobody would understand and nobody could help me. But i've gone through that now. And was able to stop and keep my mental sanity so to say ahaha. Yes awakening is something else... 

 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The enlightened master you seek is just another egoic attachment and failure to take 100% authority over your consciousness as God

To be clear, i never had a god realization and don't know if it's true what you say Here. 

But, i don't know if i agree with you here... After all reality is me and i am reality. So if somebody helps me it's like im helping myself no?

Leo, i believe you also meditated with someone for guidance, red books or had mentors or somebody that you trusted. Especially when you go through a tough time to be fair. What if i loose my mind doing this? There is nobody i could compare my experience to! 

Also, is a state of bliss awakening or is it just ego? What's your experience? 

When i talked about annihilation there also is a sense of bliss... But im skeptical here when talking about something that is too good to be true. 

[arlin]

14 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Yeah, the collapse of the collapse is bliss. If you want to imagine wreckage and void, go for it I guess. When that finally collapses too, it'll just seem all the more amazing. 

What you mean by "finally collapses too"?

I can meditate and i really don't know why, but i fear loosing myself completely but also there is, like you said,  a bliss state that can emerge and im afraid.

What is this sense of bliss? what is your experience? Isn't that ego?

[Leo Gura]

Bliss is the consciousness of your true nature as infinite nothingness. Bliss is the absence of ego.