Narcissistic Abusive Personalities

[Preety_India]

In the Chris Watts situation I made the following observations 

Chris Watts was a textbook sociopathic psychopathic covert narcissist. It is unclear as to whether he was already this way prior to his marriage or became this way by getting toxic company of people he met on Tinder or just generally degraded in moral values over time due to marital stress and pressure of Stage Orange materialistic culture. 

He definitely showed a significant decline in empathy as time went by. 

Also the role of the drugs, gym products/supplements and his medical condition including constant insomnia and sleep deprivation, level of depression, financial woes, etc may or  may not have something to do with his cognitive and moral decline. 

Here Chris Watts is pretty young and one can clearly see him appearing quite innocent and less hostile or calculating. 

This tells me that Chris Watts wasn't always like this and a certain set of contributing factors led him to get deranged psychologically and causes his extensive moral decline. 

So this is my analysis of Chris Watts's psyche - 

• He was a narcissist 
• He was covert 
• He was very disciplined
• He was psychopathic, cold and calculating 
• He showed some signs of sociopathic as well however his psychopathic index is higher than his sociopathic index. 
• He has rage issues although these are well covered and hidden 
• He suffers low self esteem 
• He showed Codependency traits. 
• He liked dominant females although he would soon get tired of such a dynamic, even though he initially liked it. 

In the crimes he committed and his other relationship, I observed the following signs and behaviors 

• He was dishonest with the mistress 
• He manipulative with the mistress 
• He was playing victim with the mistress. He was playing the "victim in a marriage" role and in this capacity he was showing Narcissistic Victim Playing behavior 
• He exhibited significant amount of triangulation (Narcissistic Triangulation) by not being clear enough with the mistress, hiding it from his wife, neither divorcing his wife nor marrying his mistress, thus causing both of them to be in conflict over his decisions and behaviors. This is typical in Narcissistic Triangulation where the Narcissist does not offer any clarity on his state of mind in a deliberate attempt to keep the victims confused and chaotic and feeds on such confusion. 
• He showed a significant level of "playing mind games" type of behavior

 

Dr Grande's analysis of Chris Watts fits perfectly with mine and re-confirms my observations. 

 

[Preety_India]

Nichol kessinger profile. 

https://youtu.be/Egx5nJ-SiBM

https://youtu.be/Egx5nJ-SiBM

[Preety_India]

Grande's analysis of Nichol Kessinger 

 

 

 

[Preety_India]

Was Nichol Kessinger involved? 

 

Not at all. 

 

If not involved, what was her role in this? 

 

She created a Situation of luxury for Chris. She showed him what he was missing out on. She showed him that he could enjoy his life to the full and the only thing in the way was wife, kids and family responsibilities 

 

She showed him that he could be actually carefree and happy and live the life he wants and it was in his hands to make it happen. She never gave him an avenue to work on his relationship, he had no chance to warm up to Shanann. 

 

She fed on and exploited his weaknesses and made herself feel special around him. She made it look like it was miserable when he was with his wife but wonderful when he was with her. She made herself look like a coveted prize, a luxury woman that he couldn't afford to have because of his circumstances. She didn't directly manipulate him but made him feel deprived of the affection she could give which would be available only on the condition where they could be exclusively together. She made herself look the high and mighty Goddess that he is missing out on, because she is vicious cunning narcissist herself meanwhile she made him look small and unworthy of her status. His own narcissism found it appealing to find this prize and he wanted to fight to keep this prize. But it came with a tag, the tag of family abandonment and divorce which placed Chris in a tight spot where he had no option but to either separate from his family in a big way and choose Nichol over them or be with his "in her eyes miserable" family and forget her for good. This choice was both enticing and agonizing. She indirectly gave him this choice. "be with your miserable family that is wife that you always complain about or be with me." this she didn't say directly. Also even if she said it, one can never know because she cleverly deleted relevant texts. But even if she didn't say it directly, she made it appear that way by placing herself way above Chris and his wife and making them both look small by belittling their expensive furniture like "you guys can't afford this kind of shit." 

 

She made sure that she was around Chris 24/7 as her messages and calls dropped into his life regularly. This way he never had any chance to reflect on his affair or on her cunning behavior. Her tactful measured subtle interference was there 24/7. She was extremely covert with her subtle constant manipulation constantly making Chris guilty for having an affair with her and not leaving his wife for her. This made Chris to suffer turmoil and split over a choice. She by her actions and not words showed Chris that she was a much better option than the wife long term. This made Chris feel inadequate and she preyed exactly on this particular emotion and weakness of Chris's Narcissist Personality. Narcissists don't like the feeling of inadequacy or being left out of the party, they can go to great lengths to feel included in the fun, they feel deeply entitled and can suffer a horrible backlash when they think that they are missing out and suffering while others are enjoying. This can cause them to have fatal emotional responses where they can kill someone to get what they want or to even prove a point of how badly they want what they want. Think of Elliot Rodger. 

 

Chris was in a dilemma by the end of July. 

 

This particular last week was very bad for Chris. The nutgate had happened in the month of July. She had pretty much severed ties with his family, even vented on Facebook which was obviously seen as a demonizing of the Watts family. It hurt Chris's pride and ego. He had had enough. He wasn't going to take the humiliation of his parents. He wasn't the one to show open anger like a fist fight but in his mind he wish he could punch Shannan. He was upset at how the family relationships were and now he couldn't even talk to his own dad. He sensed their helplessness and the bossiness of his wife. Here comes in the mistress with her angelic manipulative wings ready to take away his pain and give him comfort. In comparison the wife started looking like a witch with a pitchfork ready to strike. 

 

Watts's resentment was growing unabated. If only somehow Shannan wasn't in the picture, then it would be so nice. No stress, no financial problems, no more baby and babysitting, no more thrive and social media, no more saying yes to the boss, no more being the unappealing character in the back row of his wife's show. Everything could be his if he only claimed it. 

 

 

 

 Kessinger's pathetic lack of empathy and feigned emotions during the interview gives her away and she loses all credibility when she opens her mouth. She had absolutely no remorse over the affair or no guilt over the death of the wife..she only wanted to hop out of the mess and start over again with someone else, perhaps break other homes she can get her hands on. She didn't want to overburden herself with the tragedy and loss which is a typical characteristic trait of narcissistic women who are only bothered about their beauty and status. 

 

She didn't want to directly say things or put things in his head because she didn't want to sound like a bitch but she acted like a bitch. 

 

Did she hamper the investigation? 

 

Yes of course. 

 

 

 

How did she hamper the investigation? 

 

By deleting relevant texts that would have revealed the motive as well as her role. She constantly played the detectives by not being serious, constantly deflecting the conversation to unimportant irrelevant casual things, by running her mouth non stop, giving them no time to think or ask or even have a productive few minutes, simply derailing the whole conversation and turning it into a coffee chat so important things never get discussed, and by gaining their confidence and trust through her blabbermouth, trying to appear cool and friendly giving them no chance to be hostile to her and exhausting them with her blabbering so they could eventually let her go. She played them like a fiddle and slithered her way out of the investigation very tactfully and skilfully and went back home happily. She put wool in their eyes and gave them nothing useful to work with. Her interview at best was just hocus pocus and empty rambling. 

 

Did she put a crystal under the kids beds? 

 

No idea and it's irrelevant. 

 

 

 

Is there a Paranormal element to this case? 

 

No. But the pain of Shanann and kids will turn into a haunting. Also the darkness of Chris and Kessinger were revealed. 

 

There is a hierarchy of evil and darkness of character in this mysterious haunting murder mystery. 

 

The first starts with low grade evil, more like human flaws and it starts with Shanann. 

 

Shanann was stupid and reckless. She was greedy for money and status but not in an evil way but a childish way. She had a child like greed for everything. She wanted everything she could get her hands on. She wanted a high life whether she could afford it or not. 

 

She would use her kids as props and neglect her husband in the process. Her social media was more important, her friends were more important than marriage. Everything was meant for display. 

 

Even if things on the inside were bad, on the outside everything had to look perfect. 

 

Shanann suffered from mental illness of being obsessed with a materialistic life, like an OCD and couldn't let go. She was an overt bossy narcissist who needed things to be her way or else she would get mad and upset. 

 

At some point, the whole marriage was weighing her down and the only way to stay afloat was to be completely oblivious to deeper problems and keep the show going on as long as she could get it going, maybe the whole thrive business was acting like a therapy for a lonely tired miserable Shanann who got more on her plate than she could afford to manage and this thrive was the last chance to feel alive in life, connect with new people through social media, and make her dream of the picture perfect wealthy family come true. She would make videos after videos, the only way to talk to people directly from home, without having to pay money for parties or hangouts at restaurants. This was a much easier way to connect with people and have her communication needs fulfilled and remove the emptiness she felt from feeling down and tired from lupus and the struggles of a young mother in the modern world. This was the best way to vent. No need to have a therapist 

 

In hindsight, Shanann needed intense therapy and help for her hyper behavior and restlessness. She wanted someone to have a heart to heart talk with. She didn't need fake friends and marketing bullshit but someone to let her relax her anxieties. 

 

She drowned her anxieties in the thrive business. She wanted to convince herself that everything was going to be perfect so that she wouldn't suffer the anxiety trigger. However thrive was not what Shanann thought it was. It was a cunning manipulative deceptive company that got its employees bankrupt and it was a failing business, not thriving. People like Shanann were easy exploits, who were too desperate to work, but had babies on their arms, so no way could they flip burgers. MLM marketing businesses attracted such housewives desperately looking for ways of income. MLM is a horrible strategy to make money. However Shanann wouldn't figure this out. This business was draining her emotionally and draining her bank account dry. This business was about to completely ruin what she built with great persistence and hard work. 

 

In short MLM is a scam. And shannan, being a busy mother had no time to figure this out. Chris was too slow, autistic and uninterested to carry out his own research on this. He wasn't thrilled to be a part of it but he did it for wifey. 

 

Shanann's only evil was in being childishly selfish and stupid and completely ignoring deeper family troubles and taking great financial risks and completely unbothered about future consequences. 

 

 

 

The second grade evil, the stronger evil resided in Chris. He had this deeply buried narcissism, psychopathy and Insecurity as a man that got stronger over time and took a heinous turn under the circumstances that year, 2018. The circumstances made his dark side darker. They brought out the worst in him. He always had this darkness but there was no outlet for it or any way for it to get stronger. But Kessinger exploited this darkness. 

 

She fed on his darkness like a vulture. I remember 3 years ago when I was researching a case and a phrase ran through my mind constantly and it was "the demon in me finds the demon in you." 

 

I think this correctly applies to Kessinger. 

 

She had the demon herself and her demon found the demon in Chris. 

 

She knew his weaknesses. She exploited these weaknesses. She baited him with sex. The way a fisherman hooks a fish, she hooked Chris to herself with sex. 

 

The thing she is did was very covert. 

 

She tried to test his moral boundaries and made him feel free. She made immorality look okay. She made him feel like anything was okay. Nothing was immoral. The affair wasn't immoral.. She preyed his moral boundaries and broke them so that he wouldn't know right from wrong. She didn't give him an opportunity for reflection. She made it look like there was nothing immoral in her world. Any kind of sex was okay, no matter how animalistic. She had only one code - pleasure. As long as something gave pleasure, it was fine, even though it was immoral. It was fine to cheat on the wife. It was fine to have sex with her. It was fine to separate family. Everything was fine as long as she they were having fun. Nothing was off limits. Nothing was wrong. What a freedom! What a liberation! Nothing must have felt like this before. Chris was mesmerized and enamored. He was besotted with her. He could be his evil self in front of her. If he wanted anal sex, nichol would encourage it. She would encourage the evil in him. Asking Shanann about anal sex was out of question. She would have looked back at him with scorn and temper. There was no way he could be himself with Shanann. But with Nichol he could be whatever he wanted. He could say the most psychopathic shit and still get away with it. He could be an asshole and nichol would encourage him. With Shannan there was no such freedom. 

 

With Shanann he had to be on his best behavior. With Nichol however, he could be his worst version and she wouldn't mind. 

 

She taught him there was nothing moral or immoral. It was just social standards. Behind closed doors everything was okay. 

 

Yet she wasn't going to fool herself by simply giving pleasure to Chris. She wasn't going to be just his "happy time"... She wanted more. So she kept dropping hints that she was frustrated and didn't want to play second fiddle. 

 

They would definitely have pleasure but there would be certain conditions. And this meant that Shanann be replaced by her as soon as possible or else she was going to put her foot down and make Chris lose his ultimate prize. 

 

Eventually Chris was brainwashed with the idea absolutely nothing is immoral, even killing and murder if it was to benefit the self and live the pleasurable life. Chris became a sex addict. She hooked him to sex.. Now there was no escape. Thrive had only made his addiction receptors stronger. 

 

To Chris, everything was bleak, he even told Kessinger in the first week of August that he was looking for separation. Kessinger immediately started apartment hunting. She cleverly disguised this in the interview as her searching for an apartment for his kids. Why would she need to look for an apartment for his kids? Wasn't he able to do that himself? And yet she had never met his kids? What a joke? 

 

Nichol also tried to play victim during the interview.. methinks the lady doth protest too much. She had too much to hide. She is a clever cunning master manipulator who used her skills perfectly to evade the whole situation. 

 

The third grade evil and the greatest evil resided in Nichol. She didn't mastermind it but she was holding the strings to a volatile situation. She played it for herself. She didn't care who was going to be hurt as long as it wasn't her. 

 

She had zero empathy. She was entitled. She was exploitative. And she broke moral codes for her own pleasure and attention.. She needed Chris as her narcissistic supply. In this she didn't think what she was doing. She was jealous of Shanann. She was going to have her life. She couldn't be a bystander watching Shanann eat the cake. She had to snatch lt from her and get everything to herself. In this she failed to realize that Shanann had built everything on her own. In her mind, everything Shanann was, was because of Chris and now it was her time to shine and have the same things that Shanann had, with the same man. 

 

 

 

Whats the mystery behind Nichol googling the couple a year ago in 2017? 

 

This will always be a mystery. Did she know Chris at that time? Was she already at anadarko? 

 

Did Thrive patches contribute to this? 

 

Thrive patches might not have contributed directly but they definitely accelerated his rage and energy in the wrong direction. Strangulation is not a simple process and it takes massive energy and time for it to be successful. Chris tried to kill his daughters twice. First he smothered them and they woke back up again. This time he had to make sure he got the job done right. Thrive definitely caused him to have less control on his impulses. 

 

Chris changed tremendously not only in his body but also in his facial expressions. He was this chubby guy in 2016. And even in 2017. But his appearance began to change rapidly in 2018, the year of the murders. He developed a lean body, got rid of excess fat, his cheeks looked sunken, his skin got darker, his eyes began to look hollow, he was getting thinner and thinner, maybe because of thrive, the caffeine was driving him crazy, he wouldn't sleep, constantly with high energy and not knowing what to do with this energy. At the same time, he began to have tons of gray hairs and looked very tired and stressed and aged. He wasn't looking normal at all. The pregnancy news didn't bring any cheer, instead it heightened his stress. He was going crazy and found comfort with Nichol. 

 

Nichol had set such a trap that she had become irresistible. 

 

 

 

 

 

Did Shannan have anything to do with this? 

 

Yes. Her angle cannot be dismissed. She put a lot of stress on poor Chris who was just a shy guy. She did give him a big family but took away his peace of mind. Everything was all about her and the kids. Chris began to live in her shadow and she couldn't care less. She was thriving on thrive but he wasn't. 

 

However this is not to be interpreted as she deserved to go through something horrific, but only that such a dynamic can drive a person over the edge if nothing is done within time to fix it. 

 

Was Chris Watts addicted in some way? 

 

Yes. He was addicted to sex. But he was also addicted to thrive and weight loss, a lethal combination of madness. 

 

Was sex a big factor in this case? 

 

Yes absolutely. Nichol was trying to get him addicted to sex so she could have him all for herself. 

 

Was Chris Watts always capable of such cruelty? 

 

I think there was always a certain darkness to Chris that was deeply buried but not released. Nichol triggered this release with her immorality dialogue and philosophy. 

 

 

 

 

 

Was this because Chris did it or because something else took control over him in those horrific murder moments? 

 

This is uncertain. 

 

Was this an act of evil or insanity? 

 

Both. 

 

How legit is the theory that Chris puts out there that in those moments and before that day, something took control over him and actions? 

 

I think he is trying to throw people off. Like a true narcissist, he doesn't want to take any responsibility and blame either Shanann or Nichol or some supernatural evil. 

 

How is the demeanor of Chris in prison? 

 

Very bad. He still has that cold hearted, zero empathy, mean streak, grumpy, psychopathic demeanor that he displayed on the day of the welfare check. 

 

Does Chris have a mean streak or did he always have a mean streak? 

 

I think he always did. 

 

Was Chris a weak man? 

 

Yes. 

 

Is Chris stupid or smart? 

 

Both. He was smart enough to understand what he was doing. But stupid to not understand why he was being made to do all this. 

 

What was the motive of the crime? 

 

Selfishness and a new life with nichol 

 

Was the affair responsible for the crime? 

 

Yes. Only that. 

 

Did Chris love or hate Shannan? 

 

Maybe he did love her. But his love fragmented and faded over time and he lost interest.. 

[Preety_India]

Nichol kessinger using distancing language. 

She tried to make it look like Chris had everyone fooled. 

And then act like she cared for his kids. 

She has no emotion while talking about him murdering his family. That's not normal behavior. She is not in shock or distraught or anything. Because she didn't freaking care. She wanted the wife out of the picture. 

She acted as if nothing happened. 

At one point during the interview it seems flattered that he did this for her. 

The crushing part is that even during the interview she is trying to be the center of attention. She wants it to be all about herself and not let Shanann take any space. She was so jealous of Shanann that even in death she could not respect her.

In her mind, it was as if "who cares if this woman is dead, why make it a big deal, why is she so important." 

The way she spoke was so forced and disgusting. And the Creepy way in which she talks about the kids in a nostalgic sense. 

Not only did she not seem upset but she was also in control of the interview almost dominating the investigators. With her granie evil voice. 

She would have eventually grown tired of Chris and moved on to someone else. 

She planted the seed. He did the deed.. 

She didn't want to tell everyone because she was cheating with a married man not because she wasn't committed to the relationship yet. 

She wasn't exactly the mastermind but she was the puppet master. She knew what she was getting into. Rumour has it that she was some kind of a devil worshipper. 

She tried to skate around the whole subject by running her mouth. She loves and craves attention from men, would have been unusual to see a female detective interviewing her. Considering the situation, she was awfully casual. It's called vocal fry and it's synonymous with stupid and manipulative chicks.

Her demeanor is completely disingenuous. 

Imo, it was all the "firsts" comments she made to him "I just wish you hadn't done it before the wedding,the kids, and we could have some firsts" where what led him to begin thinking of committing the murders. Remember the card he gave her with "we will have many firsts" written in it. 

 

[Preety_India]

I went through the interview the 8th time and every time I learn something new. 

 

[Preety_India]

I don't think that kessinger is involved in this. 

Because if she really was, Chris would spend no time throwing her under the bus and show her up to free himself of any responsibility. This tells me that she wasn't involved. 

 

Do I think that Chris enjoyed killing the family? 

I've a slight suspicion that this might be true that he enjoyed it. Because he sent the Doll picture a week before. Then he looked up Metallica song Battery to convince himself that he wasn't the monster but something else made him insane in that period of time. I also feel like the way he referred to Bella was very derogatory. 

He said something like "little quiet Bella had the will to live." it almost felt sarcastic. Also he said how easy it was to simply lower Cece into the hatch. Was he reliving it for pleasure? Was he feeling powerful? 

This is obvious that he had planned these murders long ago, almost a week ago with certainty. The descriptive details of the murders tells me that part of him was feeling good about it, kinda bragging about  how much monstrosity he was capable of. 

He was always playing the role of a shy coy guy in the relationship. Maybe his masculinity was curtailed a bit. 

Maybe this was his chance to kinda show the world that he could do something that people thought only tough guys or physically tough guys could do. Maybe he felt more manly showing his aggression this way because he could see people being scared of him for the first time in his life, was this an achievement for him, did he feel better that he could scare people and maybe this gave him a sense of power that he never had as a dad. 

Was this a victory for him? Did he feel powerful? 

There are a few sadistic antagonizing elements here and there and one has to look harder to spot them. 

For example the Doll picture. I felt like he was mocking his wife and trolling her with that picture.

And it's his actions after the murder that confirms this theory. He was looking for a new apartment. He was acting relieved and casual. He was smiling during abc interviews on the morning of 14th. He was hiding a duping delight sort of a smile. He couldn't smile fully but it seemed like he was feeling glad that it was over. He did break into a smile occasionally during the interview but quickly regained his composure in order to look serious. 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Preety_India

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[Preety_India]

 

 

 

 

Code - 1STPH17AUG1051AM

 

TELEPHONIC INTERVIEW WITH NICHOL KESSINGER

8 Q=Agent Kevin Koback

9 A=Nichol Kessinger

10

11

12 Q: Today is August 17, 2018. The time is 1051 am. This is Agent Kevin Koback

13 from CBI makin’ a phone call to witness in the Watts matter, Nichol Lee

14 Kessinger at 720-656-9605. Nichol, uh, texted me last night and said that she

15 recalled some further information after an interview with her on the 16th. So

16 this phone call will be to update whatever information she wants to provide

17 and address a couple other issues that were not addressed during the initial

18 interview.

19

20 A: Hello?

21

22 Q: Hi (Nicky), it’s Kevin.

23

24 A: Hi.

25

26 Q: How are you? Sorry, uh...

27

28 A: I’m o...

29

30 Q: ...sorry for the delay, I got stuck in a meeting obviously, uh, I couldn’t walk

31 out so I apologize for taking so long to get back to you.

32

33 A: That’s okay.

34

35 Q: You at least got a couple hours of sleep last night?

36

37 A: Yeah.

38

39 Q: You - you sound a little bit better than yesterday.

40

41 A: I feel a little bit better, not much but I feel like sitting down just talking about

42 all that with everybody is like - it’s helping.

43

44 Q: Good. Well I think just keep that up and again if you need any- if you - if I

45 can put you in touch with somebody from, uh, Victim Advocate to whatever I

 

46 can help you with just call and ask.
47
48 A: Okay.
49
50 Q: Okay?
51
52 A: Um, I’m gonna need you to do that once we’re done talking.
53
54 Q: Okay. Sure I can get somebody in touch with you today. Um, and you don’t
55 need to tell me about anything, we talked about that yesterday but it might be
56 something good for you to do and - and I can make that happen today.
57
58 A: Thank you.
59
60 Q: You’re welcome. So what - you texted me about 2:00 am and said that you,
61 uh, remembered some other information. What did you remember?
62
63 A: Like just kind of odds and ends. Um, and I’m sure there will be more as this
64 goes on, I just, you know, I (unintelligible) so much that sometimes like I just
65 have to stop and think about how much information that I have gotten from
66 him over the last few months and the last week or so and, you know, like I
67 said I never know what’s true and what’s not and...
68
69 Q: Sure.
70
71 A: ...I just figure I’ll give you guys everything I have and hopefully I don’t have
72 to keep calling back with more but no promises. Um...
73
74 Q: No that’s okay, please do. I - like I told you yesterday, anything that comes to
75 mind that you think is important I’d like to know. Because you - again you
76 know him better than anybody probably over the last six to eight weeks so
77 that’s - that’s - anything that he said to you or anything that stands out to you
78 as you’re reflecting on all this, um, kind of mess here is important for me to
79 know.
80
81 A: Understood. Um, a couple things. So, one, I went back and I tried to like find
82 whatever texts you were talking about between my friend (Charlotte) and me
83 with the eHarmony thing and I don’t know what you’re talking about.
84
85 Q: Okay.
86
87 A: Um, if you - and I - I mean her and I text so much though so like if you find it
88 and you show it to me let me know but it’s just like I mean I was on that site
89 but it was never like worth a damn for me so...

91 Q: Sure.
92
93 A: ...it wasn’t really something that I ever like discussed with her. However,
94 when I was going back through there I did realize that I had like off-handedly
95 mentioned to her a little bit about Chris. I didn’t tell her that I was like - how
96 deep the rabbit hole went on that I guess you could say, but it was kind of
97 vague and she was asking a lot of questions at that point but it was just like oh
98 you know what, I did say something to her. Um...
99
100 Q: You guys - I think, um, I just looked at the - the messages and it - there’s was
101 some like little bit of conversation regarding, “Yeah he’s got kids,” um, there
102 was some conversations about some sexual related stuff, and that was about it.
103 Does that sound right?
104
105 A: Yeah that’s it. But I mean I did mention it to her. And honestly we’ve talked
106 since then and I haven’t even mentioned him. And that girl is so wrapped up
107 in everything that’s goin’ on in her life like I don’t even think she realizes
108 what’s going on in the news.
109
110 Q: Okay.
111
112 A: I don’t even think she’s gonna connect the dots, like I would be surprised. But
113 like I honestly am convinced that if I don’t say a word about it I bet you she
114 won’t even bring him up.
115
116 Q: Okay.
117
118 A: And even if she did if I was just like, “Yeah he’s not around anymore in my
119 life,” like I don’t even think - I’m not concerned about her.
120
121 Q: Okay. An- and the - the only - again, the only concern I had there is there
122 seemed like there was some conversation about a boyfriend and it doesn’t
123 seem like - so you were actually talking to her about Chris, not a boyfriend?
124
125 A: Uh, yeah I don’t - I like - I look back to those texts and I’m like what is he
126 talking about? I don’t see anything about eHarmony. I mean and if it’s in
127 there, maybe it is and I just missed it but it’s like...
128
129 Q: Okay.
130
131 A: ...no I don’t know. I don’t know, I mean everybody in my...
132
133 Q: It- it’s not all that important. It’s not all that important...
134
135 A: Okay.

136
137 Q: ...so we can move past that.
138
139 A: Okay.
140
141 Q: What - what else?
142
143 A: Um, on Monday night so a couple things. Um, I told you we had been - he like
144 texted me and then at the end of the night we had - he had called or I had
145 called. I think he called me. But either way we were on the phone with each
146 other and like parts - and at some point when we were on the phone he was
147 like - he was like, “Do you want to FaceTime?” And I remember I was laying
148 in bed and I was - and I was just like, “You know what, okay. Let me turn on
149 the light.” And I remember I turned on the light and we FaceTimed and when
150 we FaceTimed he didn’t really say much, like it was almost kind of awkward.
151 I don’t even know why I didn’t think of this earlier but it was like - it was very
152 short too, it was super brief. And I remember...
153
154 Q: Like what- what’s short?
155
156 A: What?
157
158 Q: What - what is short? Like a couple of minutes or 30 minutes?
159
160 A: Oh no, I bet it was only probably like less than five minutes. I think it was...
161
162 Q: Okay.
163
164 A: ...only like a couple of minutes.
165
166 Q: Okay.
167
168 A: And he - I think we - we were like talking a little bit but he like - he was
169 laying down on a mattress that didn’t have any sheets on it. And, um, I was
170 like okay, so I was thinkin’ like well maybe he’s like - he’s in bed, I don’t
171 know what’s up but I remember asking him like, “Where’s your sheets,” you
172 know, and he’s like - he was like, “Oh I washed ‘em.” And then this is the part
173 I don’t remember if this sentence right here came in this FaceTime
174 conversation or if it came in a phone conversation prior to the FaceTime
175 conversation but regardless this next sentence came on Monday night and I
176 am so sorry that I cannot like always remember chronological every little
177 detail.
178
179 Q: That’s okay, it’s understandable.

181 A: There’s so much. Um, but I remember he was saying that he was cleaning the
182 house, um, to try to keep busy to take his mind off of things. And this was on
183 the phone. And I didn’t - and it was kind of late when he was doing it and like
184 I didn’t honestly think that much about it originally because that man is
185 always cleaning, like he was very, very organized, meticulous, cleaning
186 individual. Like he’s the type of guy that will like vacuum his whole house
187 one week and if there’s rooms that don’t get used he’d vacuum again the next
188 week just because it’s like part of his routine.
189
190 Q: Okay.
191
192 A: So the fact - so the fact that he’s like cleaning to kill time and take his mind
193 off things did not seem like a super red flag to me, um, because I was like
194 okay well that’s what he does, he just like - on his days off like he organizes
195 the basement or he like cleans his garage, it’s just - it’s what he does.
196
197 Q: Okay.
198
199 A: And, um, so anyways so that didn’t seem that, uh, like the norm for me but
200 something that just kind of like dawned on me last night is he made the
201 comment directly after that, he said, “I had to wash the kids’ sheets,” he was
202 like, “They smelled.” And I was like - was thinkin’ about that last night and
203 I’m like this man keeps that house so clean, that’s like the cleanest house I’ve
204 ever seen. And I - this man keeps that house so clean why would his kids’ 
205 sheets smell bad?
206
207 Q: And this...
208
209 A: And that...
210
211 Q: You think this...
212
213 A: What?
214
215 Q: ...was Monday night? What time do you think it was Monday night?
216
217 A: Oh God, I don’t even know. I almost wish you guys would show me my
218 phone records...
219
220 Q: So I’m gonna - I’m gonna read off your phone calls for Monday and Tuesday
221 starting...
222
223 A: ...(unintelligible). No it’s all Monday. Just - just tell me...
224
225 Q: Okay so...

226
227 A: ...on Monday night.
228
229 Q: ...Monday night you guys had, um, we talked about, um, a phone call
230 yesterday but you guys had a phone call Monday night, it looks like he called
231 you, it was 48 minutes and 58 seconds, it was at 9:48 pm that he called you.
232 Um, so...
233
234 A: Okay.
235
236 Q: ...that would take us to about 10:35 and then there’s another call on Monday,
237 it’s for 51 minutes and 25 seconds it looks like. I’m not sure lookin’ at this
238 who called who but it looks like you called him and that was at 11:09 pm, that
239 lasted 51 minutes so that takes us to, um, midnight. And then there’s another
240 phone call where he calls you - so we’re now into midnight, you know,
241 Tuesday morning, it’s a 30 minute phone call, um, that lasts until 12:38 am.
242 And then after 12:38 am there’s a 2 minute and 44 second phone call that lasts
243 for - or pardon me, that starts at 1:12 am, it’s 2 minutes and 44 seconds so...
244
245 A: Yeah so I would almost - this is just me but I would go get my text messages
246 with him from that night and I would like sync them up to that like timeframe.
247 Because...
248
249 Q: Okay.
250
251 A: ...there was texting in between that. So I think what happened is he called me
252 on that first call. And then there’s that gap between the first call and the
253 second call, in - in that gap that was when I - we FaceTimed for a few minutes
254 and that was when I got up out of bed because I was just having trouble
255 sleeping and I was like - I went and did laundry. That’s what I did, I went like
256 put some clo- I just put some clothes in the dryer and then I think I called him
257 back and then we continued to talk. So that little gap right there between those
258 two big phone calls at the very beginning of the night...
259
260 Q: Yes.
261
262 A: ...well not the very beginning of the night but the like the big, big ones at the -
263 the first two, somewhere between that gap there’s a - there’s like a quick
264 FaceTime and then there’s...
265
266 Q: So you think that 2 minute and 44 second is the FaceTime?
267
268 A: The one at the very end?
269
270 Q: Yeah. Well so there’s - there - there...

271
272 A: No I don’t - I don’t - I don’t - I - I don’t - I don’t even think the FaceTime’s
273 on there...
274
275 Q: Okay so...
276
277 A: ...’cause the FaceTime occurred in between those two big phone calls, that...
278
279 Q: Okay.
280
281 A: ...like I know.
282
283 Q: Okay.
284
285 A: ‘Cause it was - so it was like one big phone call and then there’s - and then
286 there should have been - there’s a FaceTime and then - and - and the
287 FaceTime’s short, it’s only a few minutes. And then there’s probably just a
288 few more minutes...
289
290 Q: There’s...
291
292 A: ...and that’s probably - there’s what?
293
294 Q: So there’s a few more calls on Tuesday, so 1:12 is the 2 minute and 44 second
295 call. That - so that lasts ‘til, um, ab- approximately 1:14, and then there’s a
296 long gap, uh, until 1:50. So another 45 - or 35 minutes and then there’s a 7
297 minute phone call. That phone calls lasts...
298
299 A: Yeah.
300
301 Q: ...’til 1:58 am. And then there’s a 10 second phone call at 2:07 am, followed
302 by, um - so he - I think he called you and maybe leaves a voicemail or
303 something or doesn’t - you don’t pick up, uh, so there’s a 10 second call. And
304 then directly after that there’s a 10 minute and 24 second phone call.
305
306 A: Okay so I’m talking about the two at the very beginning of the - the two at the
307 very beginning...
308
309 Q: Okay the lo- the two long ones?
310
311 A: ...the really long ones.
312
313 Q: And is that...
314
315 A: Yes. So...

316
317 Q: ...when he’s talking about the kids’, um, sheets?
318
319 A: Yes with the shee- okay so yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I will help you line this up,
320 like I almost want to just come in there and like drop and drag all of my texts
321 to where they were going with it because (unintelligible)...
322
323 Q: And you know what, we may meet and do that, uh, here coming early next
324 week.
325
326 A: ‘Cause - yeah well all those phone calls at the very end of the night, that was
327 me freaking out. Like if you look at my texts a lot of that was like, “I can’t
328 sleep. I’m really scared. Where’s your family?” That was like me freaking out
329 and...
330
331 Q: Okay.
332
333 A: ...him calling to like try to reassure me or me calling him like, “Please talk to
334 me, I’m super scared. Where’s your family?” Like those - those little ones at
335 the very end of the night are - are me not being able to sleep and trying to get
336 him to like talk to me about like - and just I guess making sure everything was
337 okay. So that - those - those like real late ones and that’s why they’re all kind
338 of like sporadic ‘cause I’d be up for like an hour and then I’d fall asleep for
339 like 15 minutes and then I would like wake up and start stressin’ again and try
340 to call him back. Like so that’s why there are all these like little sporadic
341 ones...
342
343 Q: Okay.
344
345 A: ...throughout the end of the night. But those two big ones, um...
346
347 Q: Is - is - so yesterday we talked about Tuesday was mainly text messages
348 regarding, um, your confrontation about his wife being pregnant.
349
350 A: Yeah.
351
352 Q: Is that accurate? Um...
353
354 A: It is. And I mean...
355
356 Q: Okay.
357
358 A: ...I guess - I guess those phone calls were on Tuesday morning but for me it
359 was still Monday night. So like...

360

361 Q: Okay I ge- I get it.
362
363 A: ...talking to you guys last night...
364
365 Q: Right.
366
367 A: ...that’s how I refer to it ‘cause I hadn’t like gone to bed yet.
368
369 Q: Okay.
370
371 A: You know what I’m saying?
372
373 Q: Yep. No that makes sense to me. Okay so...
374
375 A: Okay. So - so sorry...
376
377 Q: ...so he...
378
379 A: ...so I guess those technically were on Tuesday but according to my daily
380 sleep schedule that was still my Monday night.
381
382 Q: Right. So the last phone call, um, with him on Monday - well it- it’s - it - it
383 basically starts into Tuesda- um, it takes you all the way to Tuesday, it
384 actually ends like basically...
385
386 A: Okay.
387
388 Q: ...at midnight on Monday, August 31. So, um...
389
390 A: Okay.
391
392 Q: ...his wife gets home sometime at about 2 o’ clock on, um, that morning. So...
393
394 A: No she got home on Sunday. They got home on Sun...
395
396 Q: Pardon me, Sunday. She got home on Sunday so did you ever talk to ‘em late
397 on Sunday night?
398
399 A: No we were on the phone but I mean I - I had to let him go and get up and go
400 to work so sometime...
401
402 Q: That was the 9:00 to 11:00 call that we - it was like a 2 hour phone call we
403 talked about yesterday on Sunday night from 9:00 pm to 11:00.
404
405 A: And that would’ve been the last time that I talked to him until the work day on

406 Monday.
407
408 Q: And that’s when he texts you at like 3:45.
409
410 A: No we talked during work, remember I told you he like randomly texted me
411 throughout the day at work but it was like - it was just like bullshit
412 conversation.
413
414 Q: Okay.
415
416 A: It wasn’t anything of significance.
417
418 Q: No - no substance, okay. So the - the most important thing that you’ve said
419 here is this Monday night phone call, um, he doesn’t have any sheets on the
420 bed and he said his children’s sheets were smelly...
421
422 A: They smelled.
423
424 Q: Okay.
425
426 A: Yeah so let’s - let’s get back to that ‘cause I feel like you and me are kind of
427 getting off track.
428
429 Q: Yep.
430
431 A: So both of those - those - those - that - that first long phone call on Monday
432 night was I think when he told me that, I don’t think he told me that in the
433 FaceTime text - I mean in the FaceTime conversation, I think he told me that
434 in the first conversation where he was like, “Their sheets smell.” And I
435 remember thinking to myself like why, like you keep such a clean house, like
436 why would your kids’ sheets stink? And like it just didn’t really click. And
437 then last night I was...
438
439 Q: Did you - did you confront him why they...
440
441 A: What’s up?
442
443 Q: Did you confront him why the sheets smelled or did you inquire why?
444
445 A: No. No, no, no, no I didn’t even ask. I didn’t even ask.
446
447 Q: Do you know his - I mean, uh, his children were quite young and I think one
448 of ‘em was still in diapers, um, would - would that have been a potential
449 reason, you know, that one of ‘em had an accident or did it seem like that’s
450 not what he was talking about?

451
452 A: I don’t know. I mean he didn’t elaborate.
453
454 Q: Okay.
455
456 A: He was just like - I mean like I said he always cleans the house but even if his
457 kids were to be in diapers and like have accidents like I just feel like the man
458 keeps his house so clean and she does too, they both must have to to like
459 coexist in a house that clean but like I just don’t see anything in that house
460 like smelling.
461
462 Q: Okay. All right.
463
464 A: So that was why I brought that up ‘cause I was like whoa okay. Um...
465
466 Q: Very important, thanks for remember that.
467
468 A: Yeah I’m trying, I’m really trying to help you guys. I just - I need you guys to
469 help me too...
470
471 Q: Yes, ma’am.
472
473 A: ...like we will do this as a team but just don’t...
474
475 Q: So the - the reason...
476
477 A: ...fuckin’ let me down please. I...
478
479 Q: ...why, um, we can’t - like I do - I think, uh - I did think about this yesterday
480 that I would like to sit down with you once we, um, have your text messages
481 and the phone calls and we can put ‘em on - in a - a some type of easily look-
482 that we can sit down and look at them and compare them and we can kind of
483 get the context of how everything was going that night, I would like to do that
484 with you. Unfortunately - so the download that we got yesterday is gonna
485 take, uh, multiple days to be analyzed, I probably won’t have it back ‘til next
486 week. And then - because you guys did have so many, um, text messages, uh,
487 there’s - one of my analyst is working on getting those in order so we can put
488 something together where we can actually sit down and discuss it. But I do
489 think that’s something that we would - I want to do in the near future, some
490 time probably next week.
491
492 A: I mean I can do that, I don’t mind giving you guys my time, I just need you
493 guys to like help me with my employer and try to just help me brace for this
494 media thing and just try to help me - help me...

495

496 Q: So I think your personal mental health is the number 1 issue so let me help
497 you with that and getting a victim advocate to call you, um, and you can
498 address questions of employment with them. I think they’re better suited to
499 answer those questions than I am. Um, so I - I would ask you to direct
500 questions to them, if they can’t answer ‘em, um, I’ll try to help you as best as I
501 can. I think you have a personal decision to make on what you want to do with
502 your employer. Um, I think you’re - you’re kind of backed into a corner, um,
503 and - and you are gonna - it’s a tough decision, do you want to inform them of
504 what was going on but, um, I will tell you that I think that when they started
505 looking at information for us, um, and I clarified this this morning because I
506 didn’t do some of the work on this but there was either text messages or
507 emails between you and Chris that were on...
508
509 A: They were texts.
510
511 Q: Yeah they were on company related phones, or on companly- company related
512 computers that, um, they were privileged to look at, so they already know
513 about you. Okay? So...
514
515 A: Yeah I just - I don’t know if I’m gonna keep my job, I hope that they don’t
516 fire me for that. I mean technically I’m not an APC employee and he is and it
517 was his phone and not mine so like...
518
519 Q: Well I don’t - I don’t...
520
521 A: ...I think...
522
523 Q: ...I don’t think that’s fire- like I - I don’t think labor law, I’ll just put it that
524 way. I think that you - you know, whatever. I mean people have relationships
525 at work and you guys were smart enough to stop the stuff, I - however you
526 guys did it. Do - is it an unusual circumstance that two people who got
527 together at their place of employment this terrible tragedy happened, yes. Do I
528 think that they are gonna do anything to you? I don’t think so. I mean if you
529 read the paper today you saw they already fired Chris. I mean that...
530
531 A: Oh yeah, well, uh, they should but...
532
533 Q: Right.
534
535 A: ...I’m hopin’ they’re not gonna fire me too.
536
537 Q: Well and I think you need to head that up...
538
539 A: That would suck.

540

541 Q: ...um, I think - if it was me -- and this is just a personal, this is not a
542 professional opinion, it’s a personal opinion because I’m trying to help you as
543 much as I can -- I would - I would reach out to your employer and just say, “I
544 want to come and talk to you.” But maybe talk to these - talk to you EAP
545 peop- people first and let me get you in touch with a victim advocate ‘cause
546 again I think you’re mental health is more important right now than even your
547 employment and I want you to make sure that you’re comfortable and safe in
548 everything that’s happening an then make some, uh, you know, professional
549 decisions and in - in regards to your employment. Okay?
550
551 A: Okay.
552
553 Q: So let me do that...
554
555 A: Yeah and we can - we can...
556
557 Q: Uh...
558
559 A: I - go ahead.
560
561 Q: No I have a couple more questions that don’t relate to anything that we just
562 talked about. Is there anything else that you remembered last night that you
563 want to address?
564
565 A: Yeah a few so, um, I’m not done yet.
566
567 Q: Okay.
568
569 A: Um, and then, um, and then we can talk about that whole thing too ‘cause I
570 was actually gonna see if I could email them today, I was gonna email my like
571 upper upper boss and - and I was actually gonna call her and see and just ask
572 her if she can ha- she’s (Unintelligible), see if she can have a scheduled sit-
573 down with my employer (Unintelligible) and schedule a sit-down with EAP
574 and I want to get in a room with ‘em all at the same time and just give them
575 kind of brief synopsis of what’s going on and just ask them for help and see
576 what they have to say. But...
577
578 Q: Yeah.
579
580 A: ...I was gonna tell you...
581
582 Q: I think that’s a good plan.
583
584 A: ...what I was gonna say to them and just ask your opinion on it ‘cause I don’t
585 want to give them too much.

586
587 Q: You do not need to tell them anything about the investigation or anything
588 about what we discussed. Um, from my standpoint, the investigative pieces
589 that we’ve talked about and, um, specifically things that relate directly to, um,
590 specifically things that relate directly to, um, why something may have
591 happened or timeframes...
592
593 A: Right.
594
595 Q: ...or things like that, they don’t need to know that. I think...
596
597 A: Oh I wasn’t gonna tell them that, I was just...
598
599 Q: Yeah.
600
601 A: ...gonna let them know that I was involved with this case and...
602
603 Q: You were in a relationship with him.
604
605 A: ...that I was...
606
607 Q: Yes.
608
609 A: ...that I’m like a witness to this case and that right now it’s pretty quiet but,
610 you know, in a few weeks given how everything goes it might become kind of
611 a media frenzy and I was just gonna tell them like, you know, I mean I didn’t
612 commit any crimes and I’m not in trouble but I’m...
613
614 Q: Right.
615
616 A: ...working with the prosecutor to try to help to bring some closure to this
617 horrible thing and then just tell them like, you know, I just - I don’t think the
618 media is gonna portray a very nice picture of me and it’s just an unfortunate
619 circumstance and, you know...
620
621 Q: I - I think that your projection of whatever’s gonna happen with the media can
622 be reserved until that time. I don’t think - I know that’s like your biggest fear
623 in this but right now I would not even addr- I wouldn’t address anything that
624 hasn’t happened, I think I would simply tell them, “Look, I - I am involved in
625 this case, I’m a witness,” and - and I, you know, whether or not I think they
626 already know and I’m sure Anadarko is gonna talk with whoever your
627 employer is to make them aware of that, and then, “Hey I had a relationship
628 with this guy,” and that’s all they need to know. They don’t need to know
629 anything else. Um, and - and then - I mean you have to protect your, um, your
630 employment and - and your personal wellbeing. So think of the best way to do

631 that and just minimal information, you don’t have to tell them very much. But
632 I do think you’re, uh, on the right track of getting ahead of it. Uh, but again
633 I’m - I can’t - I’m not an attorney, especially a labor attorney so you - you
634 have to make decisions for yourself on that. But the - some of the people, um,
635 here in the victim advocate realm may be able to give you some better advice,
636 uh, than - than I.
637
638 A: I was hoping to do that today...
639
640 Q: Sure. I will make a phone call...
641
642 A: ...(unintelligible)...
643
644 Q: ...today and, um...
645
646 A: ...just get the ball rolling on this because...
647
648 Q: Yep.
649
650 A: ...I would like to either go to work on Monday or...
651
652 Q: Yep.
653
654 A: ...like figure out what is going on...
655
656 Q: Yeah.
657
658 A: ...just like a fresh week and like try to put my life together...
659
660 Q: Yep.
661
662 A: ...’cause I think it will help.
663
664 Q: Yeah. I think getting back to work and not sitting there and dwelling on this at
665 every moment is gonna be very beneficial to you. So...
666
667 A: Understood.
668
669 Q: ...I - I will reach out to those people who handle that today, if I had a name I’d
670 give it to you, I don’t, um, but I’ll see who’s available. Okay? So...
671
672 A: Okay. Because I want to...
673
674 Q: ...what other...

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

675

676 A: ...I want to reach out to them today and...

677

678 Q: Okay. I’ll...

679

680 A: ...get that (unintelligible)...

681

682 Q: ...I - as soon as we’re done here I’ll - I’ll make that my next priority.

683

684 A: Thank you.

685

686 Q: What - what other things is there that, um, you thought of last night?

687

688 A: Oh, um, so I don’t know when this phone call conversation happened, I think

689 that this was Monday at some point as well, I think it might have even been

690 the same phone conversation as him washing the sheets and everything. Um,

691 he - I think it might have been the same conversation. Um, he informed that

692 her friend (Nicky)’s son, uh, was at the house when the cops came and that he

693 was runnin’ all over the house and up and down in all the rooms. And at this

694 point I was like, “Well is anything missing,” because I was thinking on

695 Monday that this girl had just left for the night so I was like, “Well maybe if

696 she’s staying with (Nicky) or somebody maybe she forgot some stuff so

697 maybe their son, you know, they’re like sending him in like hey go get a

698 toothbrush or go get this or go get that,” like I didn’t - I didn’t know. And so

699 he’s like, “Yeah this little kid was like runnin’ all over my house and in all the

700 different rooms in my house.” And I was like, “Well is anything missing?”

701 And he was like - he was like, “Well there - I think there’s some blankets

702 missing from my kids’ rooms but I don’t think he took ‘em, I think she did.”

703

704 Q: Okay. So he said little kid, do you know how old this man was or boy was?

705

706 A: Oh (Nicky)’s son? I don’t know.

707

708 Q: Okay.

709

710 A: I think he’s like 10 or 12, like I think he’s like a - like a - yeah I don’t know, I

711 think he’s like 10 or 12. Like old enough to like process information and run

712 around his house.

713

714 Q: So he said he thought that the kid didn’t take ‘em but that maybe, um,

715 Shanann had taken them?

716

717 A: Yes.

718

719 Q: That’s, uh, weird. Okay. So (Nicky)’s son, he’s like 10 to 12. And, umm 

720 just making some notes, just a sec.

721
722 A: Take your time.
723
724 Q: Okay. What else?
725
726 A: Um, let me see, let me see, let me see. Um, I don’t know, I feel like I have a
727 list in my head and I almost wrote it down but I didn’t want to put it on paper.
728
729 Q: So how about this and I was gonna mention this last night but I think both of
730 us were pretty tired, um, and we were - we were there for a long time
731 yesterday. So if you have a thought, keep a notepad and a pad and paper with
732 you and write it down. And then that way you don’t lose it. That - that way
733 you - and then you can just call me and we can discuss it and - and we’re
734 done, um, and then move on, then you don’t have to think about anymore.
735 Does that sound like a decent idea?
736
737 A: It does.
738
739 Q: Okay.
740
741 A: I don’t know what else I was gonna tell you. Oh, well - oh when we
742 FaceTimed too, so let me go back to that too. So I think all of this was on
743 Monday. So I think that both the comments about the blankets and sheets were
744 on that first phone call on Monday. And then directly after that phone call
745 there was like a brief FaceTime. And when I FaceTimed him he was like - he
746 was laying on a bed that didn’t have any sheets on it.
747
748 Q: Okay.
749
750 A: And I remember - and he was like in, um, just like - like a little - like little
751 wife-beater top and he didn’t really say much. It was like he wanted me to talk
752 to him, he’s like, “I just wanted to see your face.” And he like wanted me to
753 talk to him but he was like kind of quiet and actually that was why I got off
754 the phone with him and then did laundry and then I would call him back on
755 the phone. Because when we were FaceTiming it was like kind of weird, I was
756 like, uh, I don’t really know where this is going, like you’re not really having
757 a conversation with me, like he...
758
759 Q: So he was just removed, he - he wasn’t very engaged in the conversation?
760
761 A: He was just like really fixated on like me, like I bet you if I wouldn’t have
762 talked he would’ve been okay with it.
763
764 Q: Just staring at you?

765

766 A: Yeah. I mean it was just like it was really brief too, like it was sh- super short
767 and I was just like this is not going anywhere. And I remember telling him
768 like, “I will call you back, let me go do some laundry.” So I like got out of bed
769 and went and threw some clothes in the dryer that I had forgot to put in the
770 dryer prior to laying down. And then, um, I don’t know, I think I might’ve did
771 like one or two other little quick things and then I got back in bed and I called
772 him back on the phone and that’s when that second long phone call starts.
773
774 Q: Okay. All right, great. Anything else?
775
776 A: Um, off the top of my head, I don’t - I don’t really think so. I mean I did want
777 to make a comment to you though like, um, the other gentleman that was in
778 the room last night, I do not remember his name...
779
780 Q: His name was Tim.
781
782 A: Uh, Tim, that’s right. I knew it started with a T and I couldn’t remember it.
783 Um, he was askin’ me like, “Oh did you guys ever talk about (unintelligible),
784 stuff like that?” And here’s the deal, like when it comes to Chris or any other
785 man that I’ve ever had in my life like I always discuss important things like -
786 like where do you want to be in five years like, you know, ge- are these the -
787 is this the type of man that wants to have kids and in his case, more kids, like
788 are you - like what type of house do you want to live in, like where are you at
789 financially, like we started going over this last night and - and, you know, one
790 thing that I want to express is when I had these conversations with him it was
791 not me saying I need a house and I want to get married now and I want to
792 have babies now, it was never like let’s just leave your old life behind and
793 start any of this. It was literally just like inquisitions of where do you see
794 yourself, like if you and me ended up in like a long term relationship like what
795 are you looking for. And for me it’s not because I’m trying to rush into a
796 relationship, it’s because I want to know what I’m getting into. I’ve seen
797 people that are together for three or four years and never have the
798 conversation of whether or not they want to have kids...
799
800 Q: Okay.
801
802 A: ...or things like that. Do you know what I’m saying?
803
804 Q: Yeah, no...
805
806 A: And it’s just - I (unintelligible) to me so - so that’s why I ask those questions...
807
808 Q: And ma- no it makes sense.
809
810 A: ...but it was never like...

811
812 Q: It - it makes sense to me, I understand. I kind of got a picture of who you are,
813 you’re very organized, you’re very thoughtful, uh, you - like I said, you seem
814 very intelligent and you make some decisions based on fact. And so you’re -
815 you’re, uh, inquiring if these people have, uh, their life together. So it - it - I -
816 I understand why you’re asking those questions, it - it makes sense to me from
817 a standpoint of who - what I can who you are and how you do things. So, um,
818 it makes sense to me. Yep.
819
820 A: Okay I just - well and I just - I hope he didn’t like misinterpret any of that but,
821 you know, I always really tried to tell this man like, “Hey we need to take this
822 slow,” so I don’t know, he never seemed like he really wanted to take it that
823 slow. I think he was like in fifth gear like the entire time, you know, and it
824 was me that was trying to tell him like, “Hey you don’t need to be like that.” 
825 And - and shame on me I think if I’m in a relationship with somebody who’s
826 like trying to move a lot faster than me then maybe it is up to me to hit the
827 brakes. ‘Cause like honestly he was so kind to me that I just had a really hard
828 time being like why am I gonna push him away.
829
830 Q: Sure.
831
832 A: And so I didn’t. And it is what it is...
833
834 Q: Well I can see in your...
835
836 A: ...um, I just...
837
838 Q: ...in the cards that your provided yesterday, I - I looked at them this morning,
839 um, I think the earliest one was dated your birthday and he was quite, uh,
840 enthralled with you at that time and you guys hadn’t even been dating about a
841 - a month by your account.
842
843 A: Oh I think we probably had sex maybe like twice at that point.
844
845 Q: Right. And - and you started dating in June...
846
847 A: It was super early.
848
849 Q: Right, you guys dated - started dating in June, so you’re having sex two times
850 by the time he sends that card. And then the next one is like July 30 if I recall
851 and I mean he is basically telling you he’s infatuated with you. And then he
852 hand writes a note, um, that says, you know, you’re his life, i- is the way I
853 kind of read that. So I mean he was - he was very, um, he - I can see what you
854 mean by him moving very quickly. Uh, that...

855

856 A: Yes. I mean...
857
858 Q: ...that’s obviously just in those cards that you provided.
859
860 A: Yes. Yes. You know, and - and even then like when I read these I’m like it
861 was a little much for me and I was like damn, like he even gave me two of
862 ‘em on one day and I was just like - it was - it was a lot but at the same time it
863 wasn’t really like a red flag, like I don’t know, I’ve dated a lot of douchebags
864 in my life so like having a guy that like wants to get me cards and roses and - I
865 mean flowers and stuff I’m like, you know maybe I’ll just like roll with this
866 and see what happens. Like it was very different than anything that I ever had
867 but it wasn’t uncomfortable, like it was more respectful than anything I’ve
868 ever had so I didn’t like - it didn’t really register to me like hey this might be a
869 problem. Like usually it’s the people that treat you really bad where you’re
870 like hey this is an issue. So it didn’t click, you know, and now I’m looking
871 back and I’m like whoa, like I don’t even think that this guy necessarily was
872 like in love with me, I think this guy was like lusting over me a lot.
873
874 Q: Right. I think that’ a fair assessment. So let’s - let’s move on from - from that.
875 Um, I - there’s a couple questions I didn’t, uh, ask you yesterday and their
876 very specific. You mentioned you guys - obviously you’re into fitness and so
877 was he, did you guys go to the same gym?
878
879 A: No. He worked out in his basement. I never went to the gym with him.
880
881 Q: Okay so he - do you know him to go to any gyms? ‘Cause you said like you
882 were planning for his apartment and how he could get to his gym and then do
883 his day - kids, uh, school and then to work.
884
885 A: Well yeah, I was trying to get a - ‘cause he was gonna have to go to a gym if
886 he had an apartment because he’s not gonna be able to set up all that gym
887 equipment in an apartment.
888
889 Q: Okay. So he...
890
891 A: So - so right now...
892
893 Q: ...you know him...
894
895 A: ...he works out out of his house...
896
897 Q: Okay.
898
899 A: ...but if he were to move, just because he’s downsizing so much I don’t think
900 he has that capability. I mean I would love to have a gym in my apartment,

901 that would be nice but I just didn’t think he had the capability so that’s why I
902 brought it up. Like ‘cause we were even discussing like what gym do you
903 want to go to, you know, and he was like, “Well there’s an Anytime Fitness
904 over there,” and I was like, “Well it’s, you know, it’s close, it’s open 24/7 and
905 it’s big,” like we had all sorts of discussions about that.
906
907 Q: Okay. But you don’t know him to ever have visited a gym?
908
909 A: Not in the time that I, um, was spending time with him. Now he did like
910 workout with me one day at my house, like we did a little bit of yoga and like
911 a - like an ab routine, I showed him an ab routine but it wasn’t at a gym...
912
913 Q: Okay.
914
915 A: ...it was literally like on my living room floor on some yoga mats.
916
917 Q: All right. And what gym do you go to?
918
919 A: I go to 24 Hour Fitness.
920
921 Q: Which one?
922
923 A: Uh, the one - it depends on the day but, uh, usually the one off of - it’s like
924 Bradbur- it’s like Vrain and 120th.
925
926 Q: R- Rain? What street, I’m sorry?
927
928 A: I think it’s Vrain...
929
930 Q: Oh, Vrain.
931
932 A: ...V-R- like Victor...
933
934 Q: Mm-hm.
935
936 A: ...Vrain...
937
938 Q: Yep.
939
940 A: ...um, or Bradburn. But it’s - it’s - it’s over there, I think it’s the Broomfield
941 one but it’s the big one, like just west of the highway.
942
943 Q: Okay. And, um, so we asked last night, we - we were talking a little bit about,
944 you know Chris’ dramatic, uh, weight loss during, uh, the first period of him
945 working out and becoming a better eater, and I asked if he was taking any

946 narcotics, such - and you said no. The one question I didn’t ask, do you know
947 him if he ever took anything, other illegal substances other than, you know, I -
948 most people when I say narcotics and I need to be more specific, you know,
949 would si- think meth or something to that effect, but steroids or any of those
950 things? Did you - do you know him to use any of those?
951
952 A: Not that I’m aware of at all.
953
954 Q: Okay. So that leads me into, uh, Shanann was a promoter for - a lack of better
955 term for this product called Thrive.
956
957 A: Yeah I know a lot about that.
958
959 Q: Okay.
960
961 A: He was always doing that, is that considered like a - I consider that a
962 supplement, not like a drug. But maybe...
963
964 Q: So - so can you just...
965
966 A: He always had that stuff.
967
968 Q: So it’s a patch, right? I don’t know a lot about it but Chris - so Chris was
969 always...
970
971 A: I don’t either.
972
973 Q: ...using Thrive?
974
975 A: Always. He always had at least like two of those things stuck to him
976 somewhere. He tried to get me to use ‘em but I was like, “Uh, no. Like I just
977 eat clean, go to the gym and I stay fit. I’m not gonna stick some little thing on
978 me.”
979
980 Q: So you think it’s just some kind of supplement?
981
982 A: Uh, I kind of, I don’t - I think it’s bullshit honestly but it’s just me. I don’t, uh
983 - I don’t - I just I don’t know, I mean I’ve always - I just - I eat natural foods
984 and I go to the gym like four or five days a week. I don’t even workout that
985 hard to be honest with you, I still eat cheap meals, I still enjoy my weekends,
986 I’m not like a super gym addict and I’ve always stayed in shape so when he
987 came to me he was like, “Thrive helped me lose weight,” and I never like
988 dogged that. I was just like, “If that’s what it helped you do that’s great.” But
989 he said he plateaued on it and I was like, “Well because you’re not eating
990 healthy, you know, because you don’t need to on that stuff but you can only

991 lose so much weight on like diet supplements and diet plans before you like
992 get stagnant.” And then he was like, “Well I want to eat healthier,” and so that
993 was when I was like, “Well I’ll help you like to - to get stuff, you know, just
994 to show you how to eat healthier and like how to do that.” And he was kind of
995 - I was trying to get him to like do it on his own but I was just kind of giving
996 him some basic steps just from what I know from just my experience and I
997 don’t know, being in health and fitness like lifestyle for the last four or five
998 years.
999
1000 Q: Okay. So Thrive for him was something that he used on a daily basis at least
1001 two patches on at all times you said, um, but you don’t think - for you you
1002 don’t - it’s just a supplement and it - from what I di- my brief research over
1003 the last couple days is kind of a, uh, product that might give you energy and
1004 helps you lose weight and there’s kind of a life coaching sup- uh, part of this
1005 thing in there? Is that a fair assessment of what you know Thrive to be?
1006
1007 A: Yeah I guess. Like I’d have him try to explain it to me a couple times and he
1008 really couldn’t explain it to me, like I don’t even think he knows in full depth
1009 exactly what that stuff is.
1010
1011 Q: Okay. Fair enough.
1012
1013 A: ‘Cause I was just like - ‘cause he’s like, “Do you want some of this?” I’m like,
1014 “No,” I’m like, “If you could tell me what it is then maybe I will try it,” but I
1015 mean I still - I think I even still have two of those patches in my purse that he
1016 gave me. Let me see ‘cause I never used ‘em, I was like what am I going to do
1017 with this? Um, let me see. I might have them. I don’t know, maybe I don’t.
1018 Yeah I do.
1019
1020 Q: Okay so you have some patches that he gave you?
1021
1022 A: Yeah and I never used ‘em, like those have been sittin’ in there since probably
1023 close to the time that we started hangin’ out...
1024
1025 Q: Okay.
1026
1027 A: ...’cause I forgot I had those ‘til just now.
1028
1029 Q: All right. Okay those are the only questions I had. Um, so if you’ll do me a
1030 favor and as, uh, new thoughts come up just write ‘em down so you don’t lose
1031 ‘em and then give me a few hours and let me try to get some arrangements
1032 made with a victim advocate to reach out to you regarding, uh, some of your
1033 struggles here. And I’ll get back to you with that person’s name so you know
1034 who they are.

1035

1036 A: Okay. Okay I thought - there’s something else, see now I’m remember these
1037 things that I was gonna tell you today.
1038
1039 Q: Okay.
1040
1041 A: So, um, you and (Mark) both asked me this question, so Saturday when he and
1042 I went out to dinner, you and I - you guys both asked me, you said, “So he
1043 came to pick you up?” So I’m like, “Is this a trick question? No he didn’t
1044 come pick me up, I told you guys we drove my truck and he never picked me
1045 up.” Um, but I’m assuming it something of significance that you guys both
1046 asked, what it is it’s not my business but, um, I don’t know if it really matters
1047 at all but he drove my truck, I didn’t. Like we drove my vehicle, he just was
1048 the one operating it, I don’t know if that really matters at all, like...
1049
1050 Q: No.
1051
1052 A: ...like I don’t know if that’s even relevant but I didn’t think so.
1053
1054 Q: I’ll - I’ll just ex- that’s just a ques- so we were trying to verify what vehicle he
1055 was driving ‘cause we didn’t know if he had more than one vehicle. That’s all
1056 I was lookin’ for.
1057
1058 A: Oh no, no, no.
1059
1060 Q: Okay?
1061
1062 A: Okay. And then, um, on that note he...
1063
1064 Q: And again, you said yesterday the - the only car he had is the Lexus.
1065
1066 A: Yes. And then you guys also asked too, you said, um, “Did he mention a
1067 Rockies game,” and you asked me that last night about Saturday when him
1068 and I went out and you’re like, “Did he mention a Rockies game,” and the
1069 first thing my brain thought of was, “Well no, we went to go watch the
1070 Broncos game at that restaurant and didn’t even watch it.” And then I got to
1071 thinkin’ about it and I was like he did mention a Rockies game. He told the
1072 babysitter that was watching his kids on Saturday night that he was going to a
1073 Rockies game.
1074
1075 Q: Okay do you know why he lied to her?
1076
1077 A: Probably because nobody knows about us.
1078
1079 Q: Okay. All right, that makes sense. ‘Cause we - so we had heard you - that he
1080 had gone to a Rockies game so we - that’s why when, you know, when we

1081 found out about you what we were suspicious about him having, um - uh, a
1082 girlfriend. So that’s - those were the lines of questions and don’t read too
1083 much into the questions because the questions I have for you might not mean
1084 anything or they might mean a lot. So, um, they’re - they’re more sometimes
1085 just to tie pieces together and tie timeframes together and to answer other
1086 questions that we don’t have answers to so don’t - don’t dwell into things too
1087 much like, you know, if he drove your truck or not. If we ask you something
1088 just be truthful, um, and give the response and then, you know, don’t - don’t
1089 dwell on what we’re asking for ‘cause it’s just gonna drive you mad.
1090
1091 A: Yeah I know, I promised myself - I read the news this morning, I found out
1092 where they found those little girls, it’s so disgusting, that’s so scary. And then
1093 I promised myself after that, I was like I’m not gonna read the news for the
1094 rest of the day and I’ve been in a much better mood so...
1095
1096 Q: There you go.
1097
1098 A: ...that’s definitely helping. But I, uh, I did read something last night, a phone -
1099 an article and again I know how the media is but, um, I did read something,
1100 uh, where they interviewed one of his friends and his friend said that Shanann
1101 before all this happened was like getting ready to leave him and that she was
1102 suspecting infidelity with him and that she had told her friend that, and it just
1103 like made my stomach sink because I was just like praying like I really, really, 
1104 really, really hope that whatever conversation they had that night that like
1105 sparked all of this shit was not about me.
1106
1107 Q: Right. Okay. Again, I don’t think we ever - I - I told you I don’t think that
1108 there’s an answer for, uh, any of those questions right now, I think there’s a
1109 multitude of reasons why these things happened. And - and trying to pinpoint
1110 or, uh, put a finger on why this happened or blaming yourself is not really
1111 gonna do you any good. Uh, just like yesterday you were concerned that you
1112 should’ve called the police on Monday, and really you didn’t have - I - with
1113 your assessment of going on there would be no reason for you to. Now the
1114 other people, like I said yesterday, they had war- more information than you
1115 did and they took a step that you didn’t because of that information. And the -
1116 the same thing goes for this, there’s no don’t - don’t beat yourself up over, uh,
1117 what has occurred. I mean this is out of your control, you didn’t do anything
1118 to th- this woman and - or her children. Um it’s, you know, unfortunate for
1119 you that you’re tied into this but it’s not your doing so don’t beat yourself up
1120 too much about it.
1121
1122 A: You know, (Mark) put it pretty good the other day, he told me, he said, “You
1123 didn’t do this, Chris did this.”
1124
1125 Q: That’s right.

1126
1127 A: He said, “You are not on trial, he is on trial.” And I was just like that is a good
1128 way to look at that. I, um - okay well, um...
1129
1130 Q: Okay. Keep that in mind, you - I mean...
1131
1132 A: ...well I...
1133
1134 Q: ...there’s things that happen in our life every day that are out of our control
1135 and unfortunately this one is - is a massive issue but is there something you
1136 could’ve done -- I think we asked this question -- was there something you
1137 could’ve done to prevent this from happening? And although I didn’t maybe
1138 ask it that way yesterday your answer was, “I didn’t know this was gonna
1139 happen.” Um, so if you didn’t know it was gonna happen, he never made
1140 mention of this happening, um, then what are you to do to prevent it?
1141
1142 A: Right.
1143
1144 Q: Right?
1145
1146 A: Understood. Uh, well like I - well and I mean but sometimes I still think about
1147 like did he just really like lose his shit that night and he was just so upset that
1148 he like, you know, decided to take out his whole family, I’m like or was he
1149 like plotting this whole fucking thing? I don’t know. I mean okay so now I
1150 (unintelligible) more stuff. So then another thing - so (unintelligible) that I
1151 think one of the most significant phone conversations that I had with him, two
1152 things - so one of the most significant phone conversations I had with him was
1153 that very first one on Monday night ‘cause that was the one where he talked
1154 about the sheets and that was the one where that he was wishing and that’s
1155 when he talked about the blankets missing from the kids’ room, and that was
1156 also the one where he talked about trying to freakin’ get her wedding ring
1157 appraised.
1158
1159 Q: Right.
1160
1161 A: Like all of that like really creepy shit happened like in that...
1162
1163 Q: Okay.
1164
1165 A: ...phone call. And that was when I really - really started getting scared. And
1166 you’ll probably see that when we link up those texts. Like...
1167
1168 Q: Okay.
1169
1170 A: ...I sort of I think almost every - it was probably every other text I was saying

1171 to him was just like, “I’m really scared. I’m really scared.”
1172
1173 Q: Right.
1174
1175 A: And I think that that was when I was just like okay I’m creeped out. And then
1176 like Tuesday nothing gotten better and then I found out he was lying to me
1177 and I was already kind of creeped out from the night before and I was like
1178 okay, you know, and - and I didn’t even realize it until you guys were like,
1179 “Try to just think back on some of that.” And then last night I was just like
1180 thinking about all those phone conversations that we had on Monday night
1181 and I’m like you know what, those were really uncomfortable, in fact, they
1182 were so uncomfortable I ended that Skype conversation because...
1183
1184 Q: Right.
1185
1186 A: ...it made me so uncomfortable.
1187
1188 Q: Okay. Well ha- hand tight, let me go make some phone calls and try to get th-
1189 things in order for, uh, somebody to call you. And again, write down any
1190 thoughts that you think are relative. The information you provided today is,
1191 um, very - was very important and I thank you for reachin’ out and providing
1192 it to me.
1193
1194 A: Okay.
1195
1196 Q: Okay?
1197
1198 A: Um, I will do that. Can I call you back pretty soon though ‘cause I really...
1199
1200 Q: Yeah I - I’m - I’m gonna jump on...
1201
1202 A: ...need to get on a roll - roll with like this Anadarko thing.
1203
1204 Q: Yep, I’m gonna walk out of the office that I’m in right now and go talk to the
1205 people who handle that, uh, and see if we can get somebody in touch with you
1206 sooner rather than later.
1207
1208 A: Thank you.
1209
1210 Q: All right.
1211
1212 A: Should I - wai- wai- wait, should I wait to talk to my boss before I talk to
1213 them or (unintelligible)...
1214
1215 Q: I - you might want to talk to them first. Um, you - you know, it’s a decision

1216 that you need to make. But it - I think they’re gonna be more interested in
1217 your personal health and that certainly revolves into your personal and
1218 professional life so you might just give them a minute to talk to you and then
1219 you can - that might help you make a decision on what you want to do.
1220
1221 A: I think that sounds great. I appreciate you taking the time to do this. Um, I
1222 know I had five things I wanted to say to you and I only remembered like four
1223 of them so I might like text you or call you...
1224
1225 Q: Perfect.
1226
1227 A: ...or something later and let you know...
1228
1229 Q: Would...
1230
1231 A: ...if I think of something.
1232
1233 Q: Yep.
1234
1235 A: But I think that I got the big ones out of the way on that.
1236
1237 Q: Okay. It’s the - it’s best to text me, uh, because -- um, I didn’t mention this is
1238 in the beginning but you probably know -- any time we talk I record it,
1239 especially regarding the information that we just discussed so if you text me
1240 then I can move to a quiet area so I can run a recorder. Um, that way both
1241 what you say to me is, you know, I don’t misrepresent what you say, uh, it’s -
1242 it’s coming out of your mouth and that’s why it’s recorded. Okay?
1243
1244 A: Is this gonna be one of those things where if it goes to trial they’ll like hold
1245 me accountable for every single little itty bitty word ‘cause sometimes...
1246
1247 Q: I - I told you - I told you last night just remember, um...
1248
1249 A: ...I don’t remember the exact words...
1250
1251 Q: ...yo- you’ll be - if it does go to trial there’d be some prep but again, you just
1252 tell the truth as you remember it and that’s all you have to do. And nobody
1253 expects anybody in, uh, you know, three months, six months, nine months,
1254 five years, whatever it might be, to remember exactly what somebody told me,
1255 uh, in that span of time ago. So you just be - don’t worry about that right now.
1256 We’ll cross that bridge when we get there if it ever gets there. Okay?
1257
1258 A: Sounds good.
1259
1260 Q: All right. Take care and I’ll call, uh, either I - I will call you and give you the

1261 name of the person who’s gonna reach out to you.
1262
1263 A: Can you do that? ‘Cause I have like - so at this point forward (Mark) was just
1264 like, “If you don’t know if media’s gonna call or anybody,” he’s...
1265
1266 Q: Yep.
1267
1268 A: ...like, “I’d make people leave a voicemail and...
1269
1270 Q: Sure.
1271
1272 A: ...just don’t answer ‘em (unintelligible).”
1273
1274 Q: I will give you - I will call you and tell you their name and their phone
1275 number which they’re calling from so you can be confident who they are.
1276
1277 A: Thank you.
1278
1279 Q: All right (Nicky), thanks.
1280
1281 A: Have a good one.
1282
1283 Q: You too, bye-bye.
1284
1285 A: Bye.
1286
1287 Q: The time is 11:41, I’m gonna stop the recording.
1288
1289
1290 The transcript has been reviewed with the audio recording submitted and it is an accurate 
1291 transcription.
1292 Signed___Agent Kevin Koback 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

Code - 2NDPH21AUG645PM

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

Code - TIMDAD16AUGROOM

Audio, um, we introduced ourselves in the lobby and - earlier so we’re just

15 gonna do that again real quick. My name’s Kevin Koback, I’m with the

16 Colorado Bureau of Investigation and, uh, we’re assisting the Frederick Police

17 Department with this case involving, uh, Chris Watts. And this is Tim

18 Martinez...

19

20 Q1: Also an agent for CBI.

21

22 Q: Sir, if you’d just introduce yourself?

23

24 A1: Uh, Duane Kessinger. I’m Ni- Nichol’s father.

25

26 Q: Duane what’s your birthday?

27

28 A1: November 3, 1958.

29

30 Q: And home address for you, sir?

31

32 A1: 8801 West 65th Avenue.

33

34 Q: What city?

35

36 A1: And that’s, uh, Arvada, 80004.

37

38 Q: And a cell phone or, uh, home phone or where - on we can reach you?

39

40 A1: Um, it’s -2-4547.

41

42 Q: Thank you. And Nichol can you just introduce yourself for the recording?

43

44 A: Nichol Kessinger. Do you need all the other stuff too?

46 Q: Yes, please.

47

48 A: I live at, um, 12255 Claude Court, Unit #612. Phone number is-05.

49

50 Q: Claude Court, is that - I think we determined it was Northglenn, right?

51

52 A: Yes.

53

54 Q: Do you know your zip code?

55

56 A: 80241.

57

58 Q: Okay. Can you speak up just a little bit so the recorder...

59

60 A: Yeah.

61

62 Q: I know you’re tired and you’re stressed, um, and we won’t be here any longer

63 than we have to be. Uh, you’ve already had a conversation with people before.

64 You came here on your own free will to talk to us, we picked you up at - at

65 your request and brought you here. Um, you can get up and leave at any time.

66 You don’t have to talk to us. If there’s a question you don’t want to answer

67 don’t answer it. If you don’t want to talk anymore just tell me I want to - I -

68 tell me, “I want to leave,” and I’m kind of in the way of the door but you’re

69 not being - uh, you’re - you’re not being, uh, interrogated as a criminal

70 suspect, we’re here to understand, uh, your relationship with Chris and what

71 you know about Chris and his family and, uh, events relating to Chris Watts.

72 Um, and do you know him as Chris or Christopher?

73

74 A: Either one.

75

76 Q: Okay. Um, so the phone number that you reached him on, can you tell me

77 what that number was?

78

79 A: I think I deleted that out of my phone too. I just like cut him out of my life.

80 It’s a 910 number, you guys have it.

81

82 A1: Well we gave it to (Mark) yesterday.

83

84 A: Yeah. So...

85

86 Q: I - I probably have it but just in case...

87

88 A: ...he’ll have it. I don’t have it anymore.

89

90 Q: If I recited it to you would you know it?

91

92 A: Just the first three numbers.

93

94 Q: Okay. But you...

95

96 A: 91...

97

98 Q: ...know it as a 910 number?

99

100 A: Yes that’s what I do know. I - I mean that’s...

101

102 Q: Okay.

103

104 A: ...what I’ve got.

105

106 A1: North Carolina or something.

107

108 Q: Yeah North Carolina.

109

110 A: That’s what it is.

111

112 Q: Okay. So let’s just start, uh, with like a timeline of your, um, getting to know

113 Chris, how you guys met, where you met, all those things. Let’s just run - and

114 I- I’m not gonna ask you specific questions unless I think it’s necessary, I’ll

115 let you just tell me your story. I think it’s a little bit easier that way. So I just

116 want to know how you met him, where you met him, how long you guys were

117 dating, uh, and those kind of things initially.

118

119 A: Okay. Um, I think I met him some time in June, probably early June it

120 might’ve been May, it was just talking at work, it was pretty casual. Um, and,

121 uh, he didn’t have a wedding ring on his finger and every time I talked to him

122 he didn’t tell me that he was in a relationship, he didn’t even mention his kids

123 right away either. Um, and then one day he told me that he had two kids, I was

124 like that’s pretty cool. And, uh, so he was telling me about his kids...

125

126 Q: That sounded like a sarcastic comment.

127

128 A: No I thought it was kind of cute, I was like oh he’s a dad. It was like right

129 around Father’s Day too so whenever that is, is that in June? Yeah.

130

131 Q: Okay. I’m not good with holidays.

132

133 A: So that’s - he told me he had kids and then it was Father’s Day shortly after

134 that so...

 

Okay.

137

138 A: ...that’s what I do know. And I was like - no I thought it was cute. And then,

139 um, he was telling me about ‘em, he was pretty excited about ‘em. And then,

140 um, he mentioned that he did have a significant other and then he told me that

141 those two were in the process of a separation.

142

143 Q: Did he mention the children’s name or his significant other’s name?

144

145 A: Um, I didn’t know his significant other’s name for a while. And then I think

146 he told me his kids’ names pretty quick but to be honest with you on an exact

147 date of when that happened I don’t know.

148

149 Q: So in May and June - first of all, where do you work?

150

151 A: I work at Anadarko Petroleum Corporation. I’m contracted to Anadarko

152 Petroleum Corporation.

153

154 Q: Okay and you work out of an office setting where?

155

156 A: In Platteville, Colorado.

157

158 Q: Okay. And Chris also works out of that location per se?

159

160 A: Yes. Yes. He’s in the field but he comes into the office with his team.

161

162 Q: So you work - uh, what is your job responsibility.

163

164 A: I do healthy- health, safety and environment.

165

166 Q: Okay. So you work in the office and you take care of health safety for -

167 Anadarko is a oil and gas company, right?

168

169 A: Yes.

170

171 Q: So you’re doing health safety in the office and Chris works in the field...

172

173 A: Yes.

174

175 Q: ...as a - what - what kind of job does he do?

176

177 A: He’s an operator so I don’t know like all of his daily duties but he’s a field

178 operator so he works with like the oil wells.

179

180 Q: So he goes out and does work on those whatever...

 

181

182 A: Yes.

183

184 Q: ...uh, that work might be. But he comes into the office frequent for...

185

186 A: In the mornings. His team meets in the mornings, they don’t - they’re not all

187 in there every day. Some days some of ‘em are in there, some days other one

188 are in there but in the mornings typically from like 6:15 to probably 7:00,

189 somewhere around there.

190

191 Q: And is that where you met Chris?

192

193 A: Yes.

194

195 Q: Okay. So can you just take us through kind of a little bit of, uh, the early part

196 of how you guys - how he courted you or you courted him, I don’t know

197 which one happened, um, how you guys got to know each other?

198

199 A: Um, I guess we just started talking, he actually - um, so part of my job is to

200 manage the gas monitors that we have so Anadarko requires all of their field

201 personnel to carry like, uh, gas monitor sensors for toxic gases and it’s my job

202 to control all the inventory, any issues, anything like that. Um, and we were

203 havin’ some pretty serious like equipment issues and we had, uh, numerous

204 amounts of people coming in my office one day and he happened to be one of

205 them. Um, and I had seen him before, like they meet in the - in the lunchroom

206 and that’s where I go put my lunch in the fridge so I had seen him but I didn’t

207 never like talk to him. Um, so that day we just started talking and then every

208 time I saw him in the hallway after that and it was always hit or miss, like it

209 wasn’t an everyday thing, it was just when I saw him we just started talking

210 and we just kind of had a lot in common and just hit it off so we’d always

211 have, you know, pretty good conversations. And then I don’t know, one day

212 he just - he - he told me that he had kids and started talking about his kids and

213 then mentioned, “Yes that I have a wife but we’re getting separated.” I said,

214 “Okay,” and then...

215

216 Q: When do you think that was?

217

218 A: When he said all that?

219

220 Q: So specifically when he told you he was getting separated from his wife, was

221 that within the first couple weeks that you knew him or was that later on? You

222 said you met him around May or June...

223

224 A: Yeah it was still in June.

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

 

Code - TIMDAD16AUGROOM

 

226 Q: Okay.
227
228 A: It would’ve been before Father’s Day.
229
230 Q: So had you guys ever gone out on any kind of, um...
231
232 A: No.
233
234 Q: ...date at that time? You just were...
235
236 A: No, no, no, no.
237
238 Q: ...conversing at work?
239
240 A: Yeah that’s all it was. And then, um, I don’t know, we started hanging out.
241 We hung out, we went to - we went to a park, hung out at a park.
242
243 Q: Let’s go back real quick, so he took - why did he tell you that he was getting a
244 divorce? Did he ask you out at that time?
245
246 A: No he didn’t. I think he was probably interested in me and so, um, he talked to
247 me a couple times, uh, via his work phone and I was like, uh, no. Like it was
248 still very like friendly conversation. But then when I realized like this man is
249 interested in me, I’m interested in him, this is personal, so we got away from
250 the Anadarko thing ‘cause I really don’t want those guys affiliated with any of
251 this. And...
252
253 Q: So you have a work phone that’s specifically...
254
255 A: No. I have one phone that I do both on. He has two phones.
256
257 Q: Okay. So he had your phone, the 720-656...
258
259 A: That’s the only number that I wrote with all the time.
260
261 Q: Okay.
262
263 A: So he has two phones.
264
265 Q: All right. And one of those owned by Anadarko and...
266
267 A: Yes, sir.
268
269 Q: ...one personal.

271 A: Yes, sir.
272
273 Q: Do you know what his Anadarko phone number was?
274
275 A: Nope.
276
277 Q: Okay.
278
279 A: It’s been so long and I mean I’m sure I could like look it up but I tried to look
280 it up for those guys yesterday and I couldn’t find it.
281
282 Q: Okay.
283
284 A: Um...
285
286 Q: We can find it, that’s okay. I just wondered if you knew it.
287
288 A: Um, but at that point we just like took it to his phone ‘cause I just felt it was
289 like better that way. Um, and we just continued to talk and then, um...
290
291 Q: Let me go back to the park, where was the park?
292
293 A: It’s like down the street from my house, it’s called East Lake #3.
294
295 Q: Your - your house...
296
297 A: Yes.
298
299 Q: ...in Northglenn?
300
301 A: Yes.
302
303 Q: And that was in the June timeframe?
304
305 A: I - yeah. Well like the beginning of July, it was like right around my birthday
306 like so sometime in the very end of June, beginning of July.
307
308 Q: Okay. And that’s the first meeting you had outside of work?
309
310 A: Yeah.
311
312 Q: Um, basic conversation for a first date?
313
314 A: I mean we kept it pretty simple I guess, you know, um, I don’t even remember
315 everything we talked about...

316
317 Q: Sure.
318
319 A: ...we were there for a few hours, um, but...
320
321 Q: Understand my - so if - if I ask about conversation what I’m looking for was
322 he talking about his family during any of these meetings? Those are the kind
323 of - I understand, uh, there- you know, whatever you guys were talking about
324 relationship, your life, your interest, those things, I - we don’t need to know
325 that. What I’m interested in is knowing is when he brings up his children,
326 when he brings up his wife, when he brings up financial information, when he
327 brings up his home, when he brings up anything that may have been - and -
328 and it’s been a few days so you’ve had a chance to reflect on, um, some
329 articles that you may have read and you know unfortunately that you’re in a
330 situation where somebody has been murdered. And that information when you
331 look backwards, um, in your memory what the conversations with Chris
332 anything that he might’ve said that would be relative to that - and I’m not just,
333 you know, and even if one day he was mad and he said I want to do this or do
334 that, um, you know, anything like that, if he ever made any kind of statements
335 that you were like whoa that was weird, um, or why would he say that or why
336 did he mention that. Do you understand what I’m - I’m looking for?
337
338 A: No I completely understand, I just feel like some of this happened so long ago
339 that I can’t tell you like the exact words of the exact conversation at the exact
340 time and place...
341
342 Q Sure.
343
344 A: ...because it’s like we had a lot of conversations. I mean we talked every
345 single day so it’s like...
346
347 Q: So if there’s a...
348
349 A: ...I’m trying to help you guys with the stuff like the stuff that’s more current I
350 can give you guys a lot more like detail and exact times but when you’re
351 asking me about something that happened six weeks ago and exactly what was
352 said it’s like - I mean I’m sure I can give you a general idea but to be honest
353 with you like to pinpoint exact words it’s not gonna happen.
354
355 Q: I’m not lookin’ for exact words, um, just more - let’s say six weeks ago he
356 said something that triggered with you last night, um, that’s what I’d be
357 looking for. Or something four weeks ago. And if you don’t remember where
358 it was or the specific words that doesn’t matter, just he said something that
359 was off the wall or he said this or he said that, that has caused you a moment
360 to pause and you go wow I wonder why he said that, now knowing what you

361 know today. Do you understand where - where I’m goin’ with that.
362
363 A: I completely understand and to be honest with you I mean there were several
364 discussions that we had about his current relationship and where it had gone
365 and what it had caused, um, and he talked about his kids from time to time. Bu
366 the thing was is was never hostile, it was never anything aggressive. Like even
367 when he spoke of his wife and the fact that they were separating it was never
368 like ill, it was - it was very - it was still very kind, it was just like, “This is not
369 working,” you know, and would explain why but it wasn’t anything out of the
370 ordinary or anything that I think would scare me. And to this day eve after
371 everything that I found out I still look back at that and I don’t see any red
372 lights with the way that he spoke of his family.
373
374 Q: Okay.
375
376 A: At all.
377
378 Q: Can you just describe his de- overall demeanor over the 8, 10, 12 weeks that
379 you guys knew each other?
380
381 A: It wasn’t that long, it was like six weeks that we were hangin’ out. Well I
382 guess we knew each other longer but...
383
384 Q: Okay but you met him in the office and just his overall persona of who was -
385 was he aggressive, was he mellow, was he calm, was he outspoken? Well who
386 was Chris?
387
388 A: He - I, you know, I think he’s an introvert, I would consider him to be like a
389 pretty - I don’t want to say he’s a very reserved individual, I think he’s
390 probably more reserved around other people. I think he emphasized to me that
391 one of the reasons that he really enjoyed talking to me is because if - he felt
392 like he could get out of his shell. He said around most people he just like
393 didn’t really feel the - the need to - to like talk and converse. And it wasn’t
394 just in his home life, just in general it wasn’t something where he - he’s an
395 introvert. And he said with him - with me it made him feel like he could really
396 just start talking about things that excited him and I think a lot of that had to
397 do with the fact that we had things in common. Um, so with me I think he was
398 a little bit more outgoing but even then I would still consider him to be an
399 introvert. I mean not...
400
401 Q: So...
402
403 A: ...on the extreme end. If an introvert went to like 1 to 10 I’d put him at like a 4
404 or a 5, so on the lighter side of introversion.

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

Code - TIMDAD16AUGROOM

406 Q: ...so pretty even keel?
407
408 A: Yes like really relaxed like all the time, he was never really like worked up
409 about anything. Just...
410
411 Q: Mellow...
412
413 A: ...chilled.
414
415 Q: ...easy-going guy.
416
417 A: Very much.
418
419 Q: Okay. And he was that way with you - did you ever - did he ever have any
420 kind of, uh - did you guys ever have arguments? I mean...
421
422 A: No.
423
424 Q: ...pretty short relationship, no arguments during that time?
425
426 A: No.
427
428 Q: Did he ever lose his temper at any time?
429
430 A: Never.
431
432 Q: You guys never had a yelling match?
433
434 A: No.
435
436 Q: So you never saw him upset or mad?
437
438 A: No. And there was a couple times that we had some disagreements on some
439 things that as we like further progressed into this story, you know, but it was
440 never - like I am very calm when I talk to people, it’s like extremely rational
441 when I handle situations that there’s a disagreement in and he always was the
442 exact same way, like always. Like I never stress anything. I think one thing
443 that actually kind of drew me to him was the fact that he was like very open
444 with communicating with me if there were any like differences on how we
445 saw things or - or just like open-minded about things. It was - it was - actually
446 I - I personally thought it was kind of unique because usually most of the men
447 that I’ve ever met are typically very closed off and I didn’t get that from him
448 at all. But it was always like kind. Very kind.
449
450 Q: So no sense that this guy had a temper or...

 

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451
452 A: Not at all.
453
454 Q: ...wasn’t - was aggressive or he never lost his mind and yelled and said crazy
455 stuff or anything like that?
456
457 A: No.
458
459 Q: Okay.
460
461 A: No.
462
463 Q: So can we just kind of go back to your relationship, you say you guys had a
464 lot in common. What - what was that?
465
466 A: Well I mean like were both really into fitness, I think that’s important, it’s a
467 lifestyle. Um, both of us ate pretty healthy so I think that was important as
468 well. Um, he is like a total gearhead, he likes cars a lot and I don’t know
469 nearly as much about them but it’s always been something that I’ve been
470 pretty interested in so we’d definitely talk about stuff like that. Um, and I - I
471 guess he was always willing to like learn new stuff, and vice versa. Like I like
472 to travel a lot, it’s not something that he’s done a lot but he seemed like really
473 interested in what I had to share with him and vice versa. So even if it wasn’t
474 something that we originally had in common together it was just like hey I
475 respect what you have to say, and vice versa.
476
477 Q: So you guys just yin and yang, you got along pretty well?
478
479 A: Very well.
480
481 Q: And no time he never gave you any indication that...
482
483 A: None.
484
485 Q: ...that he was having issues, um, so you - when - during your guys’ dating
486 time did you guys spend most of the time at your place?
487
488 A: Always.
489
490 Q Okay. Always at your place.
491
492 A: I told - well or we’d go out but, um, I told (Mark) yesterday, he asked me if I
493 went over there and I told him about one time that I went over to that house.
494 I’ve been to that house twice but it was very, very brief and it was not like an
495 extended stay. I did not feel comfortable there or like I just didn’t want to be

496 there, it’s not my life, like that is somebody else’s life and somebody else’s
497 existence and I respect that, that’s their space. So I used to tell him, “Well
498 come to my house because this is - like this is our space, this is my space.” 
499 And so for me out of respect just for like whatever situation he had going on
500 and the fact that it’s not my home, um, I felt that it was better to - to be in my
501 place. And I - I live alone, I don’t have any roommates or anything so it’s
502 pretty easy to do that.
503
504 Q: So during June and July did you - were you aware that he, uh - his family was
505 not - his - did you meet his children...
506
507 A: No...
508
509 Q: ...during June and July?
510
511 A: ...I didn’t want to. And he didn’t ask me to.
512
513 Q: Okay.
514
515 A: I mean not that I didn’t want to ever, it was just not now, it’s like you’re not
516 finalized with your separation and not only that, we’ve barely been dating,
517 like you can’t introduce kids to somebody new in a situation like that, that’s
518 something that takes time. I mean would I have liked to have met them, of
519 course. They, you know, I mean that would’ve been a - a great honor for me
520 to have somebody introduce their children into my life, you know, and - and -
521 but not then. It was something that it was like okay well let’s see where we’re
522 at in six months, let’s see where we’re at in a year and if we’re still doing this
523 and you and me are still, you know, happy with where we’re at and you think
524 that this is something that is gonna be long term and is worth bringing your
525 children into the picture then yes I would love to meet them. But it’s like not
526 right now. You are still in this situation when you’re not even completely out
527 of it and I’m getting in it and that’s not fair for them. And that was kind of the
528 policy that I had with him was it was just like yes but not yet.
529
530 Q: So did he ask to introduce you to his children?
531
532 A: Not at that time.
533
534 Q: Okay.
535
536 A: I think both him and I were on the same page of eventually if things went as
537 they should in a relationship...
538

539 Q: I understand you guys’ relationship is very new and young and, um...

541 A: Yeah.
542
543 Q: ...so although it was short I - just laying everything out helps us understand
544 what actually was going on with him and..
545
546 A: Yeah.
547
548 Q: ...some - we may - I might as her a question and you’re going why the heck
549 would he ask her that, probably because I have information that I’m not
550 willing to share with you and I’ll tell you that right now. I’m not gonna tell
551 you - some questions I’m gonna ask you and you’ll go, “What the heck?” I
552 won’t - I won’t share some information with you, just it protects you and it
553 protects our investigation so if it seems weird there’s a reason I’m asking it
554 and...
555
556 A: That’s fine.
557
558 Q: ...it’s usually relative to what I know. Um, so don’t - don’t take offense to it,
559 again it’s just part of what we need to know. Um...
560
561 A: Understood.
562
563 Q: So just - you went to his house on two occasions...
564
565 A: Yes.
566
567 Q: ...were - was that recent?
568
569 A: No that was like pretty early into it and I did not like it and did not want to go
570 back.
571
572 Q: Do you recall where the house was?
573
574 A: Yeah it’s like right off the highway in Frederick.
575
576 Q: Okay. And you know the streets?
577
578 A: I mean I’m sure I could figure it out again if I like really had to, like off the
579 top of my head no.
580
581 Q: Do you know the street name?
582
583 A: No.
584
585 Q: Okay.

586
587 A: I would have to like drive around in there to get there.
588
589 Q: Okay. Um, did it look like anybody else lived at that house at that time?
590
591 A: Oh definitely.
592
593 Q: Okay.
594
595 A: I mean the whole thing...
596
597 Q: So is that what freaked you out?
598
599 A: I mean he told me that he was living in the basement, um, and said, “We’re
600 separated but we’re not divorced and we’re gonna get ready to sell the house.” 
601 And that was the impression that I was under. And I was under the impression
602 that they were taking everything pretty slow with this with like getting ready
603 to sell the house, I mean those are big things. So that’s what I was informed
604 and I mean if you think about it this whole thing happened in a six week
605 stretch, like that’s really that much of a timeframe. So in that sense like its
606 believable to me. Um, yes I went - I went to the house and, um, the first time I
607 was there, um, I hung out in their like front living room, I just sat on the floor
608 and it was on the 4th of July, it was the morning of the 4th and I was helping
609 him, uh, to set up My Fitness Pal app and like track his food and his calories
610 and stuff ‘cause he does pretty good with the working out and stuff and he
611 asked me, he’s like, “Can you help me just like get this dialed in?” I was like,
612 “Yeah I can do that.” So that - he invited me up to the house and I was already
613 kind of hesitant to do it ‘cause I was like there are other people that live here I
614 just felt like it was an invasion of space. And so I went up there and we just
615 stayed in that front room and I helped him out with that, um, and got him all
616 set up with that. And then, uh, oh he asked me if I wanted lunch and he grilled
617 chicken and carrots. Chicken and carrots. And then, uh, that’s all he had and I
618 was like okay. So we, uh, so we ate and then I left. And then there was
619 another day about - I can give you the date ish, let me look at a calendar. I
620 think it was the weekend after my birthday.
621
622 A1: Um, just a thing on the courtesy for the phone for - what was that guy’s name,
623 (Don)?
624
625 Q: This gentleman...
626
627 A: Oh.
628
629 Q: ...(unintelligible). I just met him today. 

631 A: Um...
632
633 Q: Do you want to do the phone...
634
635 A: ...I forgot about that.
636
637 A1: For TPD?
638
639 Q: It’s not for them, they’re doing it for us.
640
641 A1: Yes.
642
643 Q: We just didn’t - we don’t have the equipment with us to do it and I asked them
644 to do it for us. They’re not involved in this investigation. He would just be a,
645 uh, computer person. He would not be looking at any of this stuff. That, uh,
646 would fall to myself. So keep that in mind, he’s not involved in this
647 investigation. Thornton PD has nothing to do with this other than lettin’ us use
648 their facility and, um, helping us with some electronic download. He’s not
649 gonna look at your phone right now. He’s gonna put it on a disk and they’re
650 gonna give it to me.
651
652 A: Gotcha. I don’t know, what do you think? I really want to help you guys, I do.
653
654 A1: It’s up to you.
655
656 A: I feel like I’m - I’m - this whole thing is just gonna be crazy regardless of
657 whether I give you my phone or not. I mean that’s kind of how I look at it,
658 like it’s happening, it’s gonna happen.
659
660 A1: Well the texts reiterate what you’ve been...
661
662 A: The media is just gonna...
663
664 A1: ...saying all along so it’s not like...
665
666 A: Well they do, that’s the only thing too. I mean that’s kind of a good backup.
667 Yeah I’ll give it to ‘em.
668
669 Q: I think you hit the nail right on the head. There is reasons why we want
670 everything. Um, it validates things that we know. I’m not gonna come out and
671 tell you that I - if you tell me something today we’ll validate it with your text
672 messages. Whether it’s the ones we have now...
673
674 A: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I will...

 

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[Preety_India]

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

676 Q: ...or the ones you’re gonna give us. Certainly.
677
678 A: I’ll give it to ‘em. If you want to go get him - I was...
679
680 Q: I want you to read this is what I want you to do before you decide that, okay?
681 Um...
682
683 A: So the second time I went to the house I’m not sure what day it was but it was
684 the weekend of the 14th.
685
686 Q: On - of August?
687
688 A: July.
689
690 Q: July.
691
692 A: I don’t know if it was the 14th or the 15th, um, one of those two days. But we
693 had went out and we stopped there just real quick on the way back. And we
694 were there not very long but that time I saw a picture of his wife and one of
695 his kids. And I remember thinkin’ to myself like wow she’s so beautiful, and I
696 like took a step back and I was just like this man has a gorgeous house, he has
697 beautiful babies, he has a beautiful wife, he has an awesome job, like why
698 would he want to leave this? And I remember talking to him about it and that
699 was the first time that I tried to actually say, “What do you think about not
700 separating from your li- wife? Like what if you really try to work on this?” 
701 And he had expressed to me that, “We’ve tried to work on this and it’s not
702 working so that is why we’re separating.” And I spent some time like just, you
703 know, kind of - ‘cause it - it almost made me feel bad where I was like to the
704 point where I’m engaging in a relationship with a man who the way he
705 described it is in a contractual agreement but was not in like an emotional
706 relationship with somebody. Um, and for me the way I would have preferred
707 to do this is to avoid it ‘til that contractual agreement was also done and he
708 was done. And he could’ve approached me and said, “I’m - just had a divorce,
709 you know, maybe we could take this slow. What do you think?” But instead it
710 was, “Oh we’re separated and we’re working on a divorce,” and that is the
711 part that I feel bad about because I should’ve waited on that and I didn’t. And,
712 you know, I was just like well they’re already there so, you know, but then
713 being in that house I was just like, “Why? Fix this. Find a way to fix this,
714 make it work,” you know, and I would - I would - I was like trying to push
715 him to do it and he seemed pretty reluctant to do it, he didn’t want to. And,
716 um, I don’t know, we were still seeing each other fairly frequently but I kind
717 of like backed away so we weren’t hangin’ out quite as much and we were
718 still close but it was just like I really wanted him to try, like I wanted to know
719 that he tried and it didn’t work and then he moved on, not that, you know,
720 they both kind of tried and then he got himself into a situation with somebody

721 else. And I don’t know - I just thought he had a beautiful life goin’ on and he
722 could have made it work. That was the way I looked at it from the outside.
723
724 Q: So is this something you reflected on since this event or was this you...
725
726 A: No I was doing it then, like you can see it in my...
727
728 Q: You said this - this doesn’t look right, he’s kind of, um - I don’t want to be
729 responsible for breakin’ up a marriage, especially with two children, is that
730 kind of the gist I’m gettin’ here?
731
732 A: I didn’t think it didn’t look right, I mean I - I think he was legitimately
733 sleeping in the basement and I don’t - I didn’t think that these two were - I
734 mean I think it was like hey we’re both stuck in this house for now, we gotta
735 sell this, in the meantime you live here, I live here, we sleep in different
736 rooms, take care of the kids. That’s just like kind of...
737
738 Q: Okay.
739
740 A: ...how I took that. And, um, no I didn’t think it didn’t look right, I just thought
741 it just seemed like he had so much going on and it was just beautiful that it
742 was like, “Why don’t you just try this out, you know, and see if you can fix
743 it.” And he’d always be like, “Well what about us? What about us?” I’m like,
744 “Don’t worry about us. Like that is more important. Like try to see if you can
745 like salvage whatever it is that you have going on with your wife,” and - and,
746 you know, he - I always got the impression that he was a great father to his
747 kids, like always. And so, you know, and I was like, “And be the dad that you
748 want to be,” I was like, “And see if you can make it work.” And he just - like
749 we kind of talked about it off and on for like a few weeks and I was just kind
750 of like I don’t know, like I think I was kind of like cold feetin’ about it when I
751 went - after I went over to his house. And so this was like pretty early on. And
752 then, um, he told me that, uh, oh he went to, um - he went to North Carolina
753 and he was like, “I’m gonna talk to her when I’m in North Carolina and see if
754 I can get her to do this, to like try to like rekindle the flame.”
755
756 Q: Okay so try to, uh, salvage his relationship as you’ve been asking him to do?
757
758 A: Yes. And - and then if he decided...
759
760 Q: When did he go to North Carolina?
761
762 A: Um, I think it was like the last week of July, somewhere around there.
763
764 Q: Okay.

766 A: So I mean this was like a couple weeks that I was just kind of like trying to
767 push him to do that.
768
769 Q: So let’s - let’s pause that North Carolina and we’ll come...
770
771 A: Okay.
772
773 Q: ...back to that real quick. I want you to read this. If you don’t understand what
774 it means than ask me the question. But basically what it says is you have the
775 right not to let me look at your phone. I am asking to look at your phone for
776 the purposes we previously discussed for the text messages and your phone
777 log and unfortunately the photos that are attached therein too. Um, that
778 information is only rel- relative to this investigation, I’m not lookin’ at
779 anything else except for the conversations between you and Chris Watts, and
780 the phone, um, data between you and Chris Watts for phone calls for times
781 and dates for those phone calls. Um, and then the content of the text messages
782 that - that are there. And we can - we’ll write that specifically down here,
783 understand that if...
784
785 A: I just don’t want anybody to get some of those texts, like they have nothing to
786 do with this case and they are just like...
787
788 Q: Between you and Chris?
789
790 A: Yes they’re just - they’re just...
791
792 Q: So just tell me what you’re...
793
794 A: They’re just kind of raunchy.
795
796 Q: Okay well...
797
798 A: Like I don’t need anybody - I don’t need that...
799
800 Q: Everybody’s an adult...
801
802 A: ...posted like...
803
804 Q: We’re not gonna post it.
805
806 A: ...somewhere.
807
808 Q: Um, it - the...
809
810 A: I don’t need...

811
812 Q: ...the only ones that...
813
814 A: ...I don’t want the newspapers to get that, that’s all I want.
815
816 Q: The only ones that...
817
818 A: I just need them to not get that.
819
820 Q: ...we would be looking for, again, is the same kind of questions we’re getting
821 to here is things about his children, things about his wife...
822
823 A: Understood. Understood.
824
825 Q: ...that the questioning of did he ever, you know, has he ever said something to
826 you that might indicate maybe not then but now that there was something like
827 this in his mind. Or you - you know what we’re lookin’ for, I don’t need to
828 come out and tell you that. I understand the embarrassment of particular
829 photos or potential, um, sexual types of conversations you may have had with
830 Chris, uh, it’s - it’s not relative to - to the investigation we don’t care, okay?
831 You’re an adult, I’m an adult, everybody in this room’s a- even your dad and I
832 give it to you for saying that stuff in front of your dad ‘cause I’m not sure
833 many women could do that. Um, so that’s not what we’re - we’re after. We’re
834 after the - the information that corroborates things that you’ve told us and also
835 that corroborates or, um, may tend to prove that things that Chris told us were
836 a lie. You understand that?
837
838 A: Mm-hm.
839
840 Q: Um, and that’s maybe going a little bit far, I usually won’t tell people that but
841 because of your reservations that’s what I’m lookin’ for. If I can disprove
842 something he’s told me by a phone record, phone records don’t lie, people do.
843 Okay? So if I can disprove something that may be important that’s what I
844 need it for. I’m not saying I can, has it happened before? Absolutely. Is it
845 critical in cases that I’ve worked in the past? Yes. So that’s why I want it.
846 Okay? Um, again, you don’t have to give it to me, you can tell me, “I don’t
847 want you to have it, go get a warrant,” um, I’m not even gonna tell you if I go
848 get a war- try to get a warrant right now. I’m just asking for you to consent
849 and - and again we can write right here what you’re willing to give me which
850 is the text messages and the phone log and unfortunately again the - the
851 attachments on some of those text messages. And I’ll write it on there and
852 then you’ll just sign it, okay? Do you under- do you understand the questions
853 there? Do you have questions about any of the things that it says? You
854 understand you don’t have to do this...

856 A: Mm-hm.
857
858 Q: ...you’re doing it of your own free will? And I know you’re tired so if you
859 want to let your dad read it too, um...
860
861 A: He will, thank you.
862
863 Q: ...that’s - that’s a good idea.
864
865 A: Can you fill it out before I sign it?
866
867 Q: Yep. And just you read it and if you have any questions then we’ll - we’ll put
868 on there what we’re after.
869
870 A: I’m so hungry.
871
872 Q: You should’ve told me, I would have got you some food. I got food in my car.
873
874 A: It’s not staying down, it’s coming up...
875
876 A1: She hadn’t been feelin’ good. Not ‘cause of any - just...
877
878 A: Like I got sick prior to this...
879
880 A1: The gym.
881
882 A: ...whole - whole thing happening, and then I think ev- all of this compounding
883 with the fact...
884
885 Q: Stress.
886
887 A: ...that I’m sick it’s just not good. I have not really been eating or sleeping
888 much at all.
889
890 A1: Yeah I - I am with you, we - we definitely need to accelerate the case because
891 the more lo- the more it takes the less sure that they are of situations. But on
892 the other end I think if we - if you do just that only...
893
894 Q: You tell me what you’re willing to provide to me and we’ll write it on...
895
896 A1: I- is that good enough?
897
898 A: Mm-hm. I just want like our text conversation and then our phone call
899 records.

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

901 Q: So I’m gonna put, um...
902
903 A: So the time and date of the phone call records and then our text message on
904 those.
905
906 Q: Text...
907
908 Q1: Could we get photos of him?
909
910 A Huh?
911
912 Q1: Could we get photos of him?
913
914 A: Off of that?
915
916 Q1: Would you mind if we got his photos that he sent to you?
917
918 A: Well they’ll be in that text message thing.
919
920 Q: So all of his photos were sent - there was no apps or anything else...
921
922 A: No. No, no, no, no, no.
923
924 Q: ...you used that you guys were sending?
925
926 A: No.
927
928 Q: It was all just text messages?
929
930 A: Yeah.
931
932 Q: Okay. So it’d be an attachment to a text that he sent you?
933
934 A: Pretty much.
935
936 Q: But...
937
938 A: Ev- everything is in the text and the phone call records.
939
940 Q: So...
941
942 A: Like all of it.
943
944 Q: ...because we don’t have it on tape, we discussed prior to turning the tape on,
945 um, on Tuesday which would’ve been the 14th of August, um, you had read

946 some newspapers articles on the 13th and the 14th that regarded this case, you
947 had also had a conversation with Chris at some point during the day on
948 Monday, uh, and on Tuesday because of what you found, specifically what
949 you said was - and don’t let me put words in your mouth but you kn- you
950 found out that his, um, wife was pregnant.
951
952 A: And I - yes.
953
954 Q: And you did not know that prior?
955
956 A: No.
957
958 Q: And you found that out via the newspaper articles and that caused you
959 concern. Um...
960
961 A: Well I just realized that he was lying to me and I was like, “Well if you can lie
962 to me about this what else are you lying to me about?” And it made me realize
963 that maybe his wife was in danger at that point and it was Day 2 too and she
964 still wasn’t home.
965
966 Q: What did that cause you to do with your phone though?
967
968 A: Oh, what, when I deleted those? I was just kind of grossed out by him to be
969 honest with you. I was just like, “I don’t know what’s going on right now but
970 you just lied to me and I don’t want to see this come over my phone
971 anymore.” So I removed it.
972
973 Q: So you re- just - you already said, but you removed text messages?
974
975 A: I deleted all of his stuff because he lied to me. I mean that’s what it was, it
976 was hur- it was the hurt that made me delete it. And then it was the lie that
977 made me start questioning everything else he had been telling me for the last
978 few days.
979
980 Q: And that’s when you decided to come forward?
981
982 A: Yes.
983
984 Q: Okay. So just for context...
985
986 A: Yes.
987
988 Q: ...when people delete stuff off phones usually we go hold on a second...
989
990 A: No, no, no, no, no it wasn’t malicious at all.

991
992 Q: And - and - and that’s why I want to (unintelligible)...
993
994 A: It wasn’t malicious at all.
995
996 Q: ...and no I’m not saying it was malicious.
997
998 A: He - he - he lied to me, it just hurt. Like I had never felt like he had ever lied
999 to me before and it was a big lie...
1000
1001 Q: Right.
1002
1003 A: ...I mean telling somebody that you’re in the midst of a divorce and then you
1004 have a wife that has a 15 week old baby on the way is a huge, huge thing and I
1005 was very taken back and I was just - it was hurt. And so at that point I just - I
1006 like deleted it. I had a - I had a few more quick things to say to him and then I
1007 just got rid of him. That’s literally what I did, I just cut him out of my life. It
1008 would have honestly been like a bad breakup kind of thing. Like if none of
1009 this other stuff would have happened that’s what it would have been, that
1010 would have been the end of it.
1011
1012 Q: The information was not destroyed because there was anything in there that
1013 would be, uh, harmful to you or potentially to Chris at this point, but harmful
1014 to you in particular, that’s not what you did?
1015
1016 A: No. No, no, no, no, no.
1017
1018 Q: You did it out of -- uh, excuse my language -- this guy’s an asshole so I’m
1019 gettin’ rid of him and I’m gettin’ this stuff off my phone.
1020
1021 A: That was like me kicking him out of my life.
1022
1023 Q: Okay.
1024
1025 A: And then - like I said and then realizing that he lied, that was when I was like
1026 okay maybe his family is in danger and they’re not coming back and they’re
1027 not staying with a friend.
1028
1029 A1: Yeah when’d I go over there? Tuesday morning?
1030
1031 A: Wednesday morning.
1032
1033 A1: Wednesday, yeah.
1034
1035 A: I called you Wednesday morning.

1036
1037 A1: That’s when we started discussing you guys need to get everything that - I
1038 just...
1039
1040 Q: You can understand the importance of...
1041
1042 A1: Oh no question. We were...
1043
1044 Q: Like I said, people lie, phone records don’t. Um, and they really help
1045 specifically, um, establish dates and times.
1046
1047 A: Mm-hm.
1048
1049 Q: I think we have a - have a very good grip on that in this case already but there
1050 may be a time when we go, “We need to know something else,” and then we
1051 would have it, we don’t want to lose it. And that’s - that’s really what it is for
1052 us is if we lose information that later on we go, “Man I wish we would’ve got
1053 that,” and we may never even use these. We may never even look at ‘em but if
1054 - if we have it now then we don’t worry about losing it. So I appreciate you
1055 being cooperative and giving it to us.
1056
1057 A: Yeah.
1058
1059 Q: So the first thing I wrote was text messages between Chris Watts and
1060 attachments. Okay so ‘cause we’re talking about the photographs
1061 unfortunately that caused you much disdain. And then I am gonna put, uh,
1062 phone log for calls between, uh, yourself and Chris Watts. Your phone
1063 number is, uh...
1064
1065 A: 720...
1066
1067 Q: ...720...
1068
1069 A: ...656-9605.
1070
1071 Q: And this right now is located at - we’re at the Thornton Police Department,
1072 it’s gonna be moved to my - so this is kind of - doesn’t make sense but we’re
1073 here, it’s gonna be moved to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. He’s
1074 gonna download it here but I’m gonna take it with me, just so you know, it’s
1075 not staying here.
1076
1077 A: Okay.
1078
1079 Q: They’re not gonna retain any of this, this comes with me.

1081 A: Okay.
1082
1083 Q: Okay.
1084
1085 A1: Is there anything else you want on there? I think that’s about...
1086
1087 A: That’s it. I mean I don’t have social media, I don’t really have anything else
1088 you guys can pull.
1089
1090 Q: Okay.
1091
1092 Q1: Is there anything else you know of that could help us with this that we - that is
1093 not on this sheet?
1094
1095 A: Uh, as far as like data?
1096
1097 Q1: That’s on your phone.
1098
1099 A: No. No I mean everything we did was like text and talk pretty much. I mean
1100 and like I said, any pictures that I had like even if you were to restore all my
1101 regular photos there’s so many pictures in there and you wouldn’t even know
1102 which ones were for him and which ones weren’t. But the one - any picture
1103 that I wanted to send to him I sent via text so if you guys go through the text
1104 in the attachments you will have - you will have everything that wasn’t said
1105 verbally and was done via text. But I think that’s it, like I don’t have - I don’t
1106 have anything else as far as like no Facebook, no Instagram, no - no Twitter,
1107 no LinkedIn, like none of it. So, um, there was never any of that kind of
1108 correspondence. So I think that should probably cover everything you guys
1109 will need.
1110
1111 Q: Is there any particular messages that I - would help me so I don’t have to look
1112 at - ‘cause whatever is on your phone I don’t know how long we’re gonna get
1113 back to but let’s say there - is there a particular date or time or message that
1114 stands out to you that would be relative to - specifically to the investigation
1115 into this case that might assist me in understanding why something like this
1116 could have occurred?
1117
1118 A: I’m still in shock that this whole thing happened, I...
1119
1120 Q: I can imagine.
1121
1122 A: ...I - like that’s why I gave him the benefit of the doubt for the first day ‘cause
1123 I was just like no way. Like I didn’t even think about that, I mean murder was
1124 not on the top of my mind when somebody doesn’t come home for an
1125 evening. Especially if they just like had some sort of like heated conversation,

1126 it’s like okay you guys are separating, you have a heated conversation, you
1127 leave for a night, like I didn’t even think this guy killed his wife. I mean that -
1128 that like - murder is not something on the top of my mind when I call one of
1129 my friends for three or four hours and she doesn’t answer the phone. Like that
1130 doesn’t even process to me as like a real thing that is a possibility at that point.
1131 And so that’s why I gave it a day and then the second day I was talkin’ to him
1132 he was just like a hot mess I could tell. And then with like the way he was
1133 talking to me and then that’s kind of when I cut him off and I stopped talking
1134 to him. And then...
1135
1136 Q: So remember what you just said and we’re gonna get to that ‘cause that’s
1137 probably a very important conversation. So but...
1138
1139 A: Yeah. So if you want to know days I would probably honestly just start at like
1140 Sunday and work your way forward. I mean all the rest of that stuff it’s just
1141 like the small talk of like hey this, this, this, you know. I mean...
1142
1143 Q: And your relationship building through the first weeks...
1144
1145 A: Yeah I mean like and if you go like maybe like a week further back like
1146 there’s times like I was trying to help him find an apartment like just for him,
1147 not for me, but for him and his kids, um, to get set up. And like there’s times
1148 where I’m like, “Well where’s your wife moving to? Like how close is she
1149 gonna be to you? You should be within like 30 minutes of your kids so they’re
1150 close. And you want to be close to their school and close to your gym. And
1151 like what’s your price range?” Like I was helping him get all of this stuff set
1152 up and it was like in a very decent manner and I don’t know if all of that is in
1153 text, some of it’s probably on the phone. Like at this point I’ve talked to him
1154 so much that I don’t even know which parts are like verbalized and which
1155 parts are texted at this point...
1156
1157 Q: Right.
1158
1159 A: ...but we can figure it out.
1160
1161 Q: Okay. The - you see what I wrote, uh, text messages between Chris Watts and
1162 attachments. Uh, and then the phone logs for calls between your phone
1163 number and Chris Watts. That’s - those are the two things that we’ll ask to be
1164 extracted from your phone. So if you’re okay with that, if you...
1165
1166 A: Why does that say, “As removed, cell phone data”? Isn’t that this?
1167
1168 Q: That is that and that’s what he’s gonna remove.
1169
1170 A: Oh.

1171
1172 Q: And then that officer is gonna fill that out.
1173
1174 A: Gotcha. What is the date? I don’t even know what day it is.
1175
1176 Q: Today is the 16th.
1177
1178 A: And you want to add anything to this?
1179
1180 Q: If you give - get your phone we’ll get him started.
1181
1182 A: Oh other than we - yeah we just - we wanted to give you everything but we
1183 also want to be protected in doing so, is more of the...
1184
1185 Q: Sure.
1186
1187 A: ...was more of the thing. It- it’s just...
1188
1189 Q: And when he’s done we’ll give you our copy of this.
1190
1191 Q1: Is there a password or anything like it - will it lock up after a period of time?
1192
1193 A: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. (Unintelligible).
1194
1195 Q1: That’s his notes.
1196
1197 A1: And...
1198
1199 Q1: Make sure there’s nothing written on the back. I’m just teasing.
1200
1201 A: There’s not. I checked before I ripped it off. Okay.
1202
1203 Q: Let’s go back to North Carolina.
1204
1205 A: Okay.
1206
1207 Q: He went to North Carolina and he was trying to rehab his marriage with his
1208 wife?
1209
1210 A: Uh, he said he was...
1211
1212 Q: Do you know her name at this point?
1213
1214 A: Yeah.

1216 Q: Okay. Are you okay saying her name?
1217
1218 A: It’s Shanann.
1219
1220 Q: All right. And do you know the children’s’ name?
1221
1222 A: Yes it’s Bella and Celeste, (CiCi).
1223
1224 Q: She went by - they called her (CiCi)?
1225
1226 A: Mm-hm.
1227
1228 Q: All right. So he went to - were they in North Carolina already?
1229
1230 A: They were already there.
1231
1232 Q1: If you want something.
1233
1234 A: I don’t know if my stomach will do that. Um, yeah they were already out
1235 there. He just flew out there to go meet up with...
1236
1237 Q: Do you know why they were there?
1238
1239 A: They’re - they’re all from there.
1240
1241 Q: Okay so they were - they’re from...
1242
1243 A: They were visiting her family for the most part until he got there. And then
1244 they still were mostly visiting her family.
1245
1246 Q: Okay. And do you know how long they had been there?
1247
1248 A: A while, like weeks.
1249
1250 Q: All right. And he flew out to join his family there?
1251
1252 A: Yep.
1253
1254 Q: Do you know specifically where you flew to?
1255
1256 A: What airport?
1257
1258 Q: No, no, no, what city.
1259
1260 A: No not off the top of my head.

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

1261
1262 Q: Okay.
1263
1264 A: I’m sure if I thought real hard maybe I could think about it but I mean come
1265 up with it, no I don’t know.
1266
1267 Q: All right. So he goes there, how - do you re- you said it was like the last week
1268 of July?
1269
1270 A: I think so, I think it was like one of the last days of July. I’m almost positive, I
1271 think it was a weekday.
1272
1273 Q: Okay.
1274
1275 A: Um, yeah he flew out there and I thought I had like convinced him to like try
1276 to make peace with her and I was like, “If you guys work on this like I’m out
1277 ‘cause what’s the point? Like I’m not trying to be with somebody that’s in
1278 another relationship,” which I know that sounds silly given the whole
1279 relationship that we had in the first place but I really was under the impression
1280 that they were separating. I mean it was like reiterated to me so many times
1281 that that’s what I thought it was. And it made sense to me too because like he
1282 could pretty much call me whenever he wanted, like I was the one that would
1283 tell him like, “Hey when your kids are awake you need to spend time with
1284 your kids. Like do that. And then after they go to bed like if you want to talk
1285 to me you can talk to me.” But it was never like this super, super restricted
1286 thing. Like sometimes like right after work if I was like still talking to him I’d
1287 get kind of bummed out and I’d, you know, I’d tell him, I’d just be like oh it’s
1288 frustrating sometimes like having to like wait. But at the same time I was
1289 never like this is horrible or, you know, it was always like I understood why.
1290 But then once his kids were asleep he never like had any - it was like he could
1291 do what he wanted. Do you know what I’m saying? Like he was in...
1292
1293 Q: Sure.
1294
1295 A: ...his basement and she’s upstairs and they’re not speaking. So it kind of made
1296 sense, it wasn’t like sneaky...
1297
1298 Q: And you guys are just texting and...
1299
1300 A: We’re talking or whatever, you know...
1301
1302 Q: Sure.
1303
1304 A: ...I mean and it was just - it was like I said, it was at certain times but that ti-
1305 and originally it wasn’t but it was me that put that timeframe on there because

1306 I thought he should hang out with his kids. Um...
1307
1308 Q1: Those two times that you were at his house did you see any evidence of that,
1309 him living in the basement? Did he ever show you that area (unintelligible)?
1310
1311 A: I’ve seen it, yeah I went down there and saw his - his little workout equipment
1312 and there’s a bed down there all set up, and the basement was all clean and
1313 organized and stuff so, um, like a - like a decent bed setup so it made sense to
1314 me like hey this is - this is what’s happening down here. Um, so I saw it.
1315 Um...
1316
1317 Q1: Even though his family was in Nor- North Carolina for multiple weeks it
1318 appeared that he was still living in the basement?
1319
1320 A: Mm-hm.
1321
1322 Q1: Hm.
1323
1324 A: Well and he told me sometimes he would like go upstairs and sleep if - if like
1325 he was home alone ‘cause I know she’d like go on business trips and stuff.
1326 But he’s like, “I don’t like that bed anyways,” so he didn’t really like to sleep
1327 up there. I was like okay. Um, even when it was just him. So that was the
1328 impression that I got. Um, I don’t know what we were talking about, North
1329 Carolina?
1330
1331 Q: Let’s - yeah go - go back to North Carolina.
1332
1333 A: So North Carolina. Um, so he still made very frequent communication with
1334 me when he was out there and at one point he told me that they sat down and
1335 they talked about it and he told her that he wanted to either fix things or - like
1336 to try to fix things and if she didn’t want to fix them then they needed to like
1337 move forward with the separation and like actually file for a divorce at this
1338 point, was - was the impression that I got from this and just what he told me.
1339 And so, um, he said that she was like pretty receptive to like just not trying.
1340 He was like, “She seemed like she just wants me to go.” He’s like, “When she
1341 has her mind made up, she has her mind made up and that’s what she want,” 
1342 and he’s like, “She doesn’t want to try anymore,” and he’s like, “And neither
1343 do I really.” And he was like, “It’s done,” and he’s like, um - and then the
1344 next day - I don’t even know what days these were, some time when he was
1345 out there. He told me, um, “We’re putting the house up for sale as soon as we
1346 get back.” And I was like, “Whoa that was quick.” And he was like, “It’s her,
1347 she’s ready to go.” And I was like, “Okay.” And so I left it at that and then,
1348 um, he got back and I started askin’ him like, “What are you gonna do?
1349 Because the Colorado housing market is fire and you guys are gonna sell this
1350 house like real fast,” and I’m like, “You need to start looking for new places

1351 to live.” And I’m like, “Where do you want to live?” And I was really trying
1352 to help him out, I’m like, “Do you want to get a house? Do you want three
1353 bedrooms so you have one and each of your girls have one?” I’m like, “Do
1354 you want to, you know, like do you want an apartment? Like what do you
1355 want, you know, where do you want to live?” Because he’s in Frederick but
1356 that whole area over there is just like a bunch of small towns and you can kind
1357 of just pick and choose, everything’s kind of, you know, and so, um, he told
1358 me, “Well I like Brighton,” and I was like, “Okay.” And then he told me he
1359 wanted a two-bedroom apartment and he said he wanted one room for him
1360 and the other room for his two girls. And I thought it was kind of cute, like I
1361 remember telling him, I was like, “Yeah me and my sister had bunk beds like
1362 at my dad’s house,” and I was like, “When we were little girls.” When we
1363 were - me and my sister are the same age apart as him and his - I mean as his
1364 two daughters, you know, so I told him, I was like, “They’re gonna love it.” I
1365 was like, “They might be like stuck in - in one room together,” I was like,
1366 “But they’ll become like best buddies.” And it was really exciting, like I liked
1367 helping him and I just wanted him to like - I don’t know. This is what he told
1368 me he wanted so I was like, “Well I will help you do the research.” But
1369 another thing that I really took care of was to be like where is she moving to?
1370 I was never like, “You know what, screw your wife, try to get full custody,” 
1371 none of that bullshit. It was always just like, you know, I’d ask him, I’m like,
1372 “Well what kind of custody are you guys gonna have,” ‘cause he sa- he - at
1373 work they’re about to switch his schedule so right now he’s like a Monday
1374 through Friday and they’re about to switch these guys to eight days on, six
1375 days off...
1376
1377 Q: Mm, that’s tough.
1378
1379 A: That’s awesome. And I - and I was - so I was tellin’ - I was askin’ him, I was
1380 like, “Are you gonna have your kids like on that set of days off?”
1381
1382 Q: Mm-hm.
1383
1384 A: I was like, “‘Cause that would work perfect, like one week on, one week off,” 
1385 and I was just like, you know, we had just talked about it and I’m like, “What
1386 is your plan?” And he’s like, “We haven’t figured out exactly what we’re
1387 gonna do about the kids yet,” but he told me, he’s like, “Colorado’s a 50-50
1388 state and she’s okay with everything 50-50.” Like he said that she was like on
1389 board with this because she wanted it too, like she was checked out of this
1390 relationship. So that was like how he made this sound, that it was like a very
1391 like kosher we’re done kind of thing and...
1392
1393 Q: Did you ever give him like books or articles or anything to read about saving
1394 your marriage? Did you ever provide anything to him like that?

1396 A: About saving his marriage?
1397
1398 Q: Yeah like how to recover a marriage or how to save a marriage or, you know,
1399 there’s - there’s all sorts of publications and books out there.
1400
1401 A: No. No but I did tell him - and I don’t know if I did this through text or phone,
1402 that will be something you guys will I’m sure figure out. Um, but I would tell
1403 - I told him a few times like, “I think that you should take the time to read
1404 some articles, uh, about, um, what separation does to kids.” You know, and I
1405 told him, I said, “When my parents separated we were literally like 3 and 5,” 
1406 we were almost the exact same age as these little girls. And I told him, I said,
1407 “You know, I was so young when it happened that it didn’t really have like a
1408 big negative effect on me because I was so small that I really didn’t process it
1409 too well.” I was like, “But I do have cousins that their parents got divorced
1410 when they were like 10, 11, and I think that it hit ‘em a little harder, you
1411 know,” and I - and he’s like, “Oh they’ll be fine,” you know, and I told em, I
1412 was like, “Even though they’re small and you think that they’ll be fine,” I was
1413 like, “I think you guys should just read about it just so that you guys are
1414 prepared in case, yo know, one of these two starts having a hard time with the
1415 fact that you guys aren’t in the same house anymore.” You know, an- and -
1416 and I would tell him, I was like, “You know, there’s pros and cons to it, like,” 
1417 ‘cause he was like getting ready to do it and it would be like, you know, it’s
1418 kind of cool havin’ two Christmases and, you know, like your parents get to
1419 go, you know, be happy doing whatever it is they want to do with their lives
1420 and they don’t have to be in a situation that’s probably not good for the kids
1421 because it’s not good for those two. You know, but at the same time it was
1422 like just read, like that’s what I always used to tell him, I’d always tell him to
1423 like - I - I tell people to read about everything, reading is so good for you.
1424
1425 Q: So he at this time is telling you that yeah I am the guy trying to save the
1426 marriage and she doesn’t want it?
1427
1428 A: That’s what he told me. That’s what he told me so...
1429
1430 Q: Okay.
1431
1432 A: ...um, and he - yeah and then he was like, “She doesn’t want it so I’m not
1433 gonna do it.” And then it was like, “We’re filing for divorce, we’re selling the
1434 house,” and this was like all as soon as they were comin’ back from North
1435 Carolina, like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And...
1436
1437 Q: Well do you recall when he gets back from North Carolina?
1438
1439 A: No. I don’t even know how long he was out there, I know it was like less than
1440 two weeks and more than one.

1441
1442 Q: Okay.
1443
1444 A: I don’t remember.
1445
1446 Q: So he’s - he comes back early August, would that be fair?
1447
1448 A: Oh yeah, it was definitely like in the first two weeks somewhere.
1449
1450 Q: All right.
1451
1452 A: Probably the second week of August at some point. And then I don’t
1453 remember when...
1454
1455 Q: Does his wife come back with him at that time or does he...
1456
1457 A: Yeah they all came back.
1458
1459 Q: They all come back at the same time.
1460
1461 A: They all came back. Um, and then, uh, yeah so he - he continues to just, you
1462 know, tell me that this is like what he wants and - and so I took the time - and
1463 you will see that in the text too where I like - like there - like I found this
1464 apartment, it was perfect, it was so cute, I was like, “It’s in your price range,
1465 it’s like 6 miles from the gym, it’s 23 miles from work,” I’m like, “You know,
1466 it’s super close to Frederick, it’s gonna be by your kids’ school, like this is -
1467 this is the spot,” you know, and - and - and I told him, I was like, “I’ll keep
1468 looking for more places,” and he’s like, “Well there some that I want to go see
1469 too.” And he actually had me thinking that he was gonna go look at these
1470 places this week before all this sh- stuff...
1471
1472 Q: Oh so this is fairly recent then if we’re talking...
1473
1474 A: Oh this just happened like in the last couple weeks.
1475
1476 Q: He’s gonna go look at apartments during...
1477
1478 A: He wanted me to go with him.
1479
1480 Q: When you say this week are you saying...
1481
1482 A: Like this - this week.
1483
1484 Q: ...Monday was the 13th...

 

1486 A: Like this week.
1487
1488 Q: Okay.
1489
1490 A: Yeah so I told him, I was like, “Well pick out a few spots and if you want me
1491 to come with you I’ll go look at ‘em but you, you know...”
1492
1493 Q: You said earlier that he had never, um - or that the - the apartment wasn’t for
1494 you and him, it was just for him and his children.
1495
1496 A: Oh yes.
1497
1498 Q: It wasn’t - you weren’t in- had no intentions of moving in with him?
1499
1500 A: No. I have my own spot, I still have a lease there ‘til July, and even then like
1501 he never asked me to move in with him...
1502
1503 Q: Okay.
1504
1505 A: ...and I never tried to move in with him. I mean I told him - I mean I really
1506 tried to take everything with this whole situation very slow. The only part that
1507 I screwed up on was the fact that he wasn’t completely separated from her
1508 when him and I decided to spend time with each other. That is where I
1509 screwed up. But other than that everything else it was always like, you know,
1510 you build your life, I’m gonna build my life, we will intertwine them but I am
1511 not ready to like do this. And he respected that and I - and I, um, I even said
1512 that and I don’t know, I - that might be in the text but (unintelligible) that
1513 Chris like, “You need space, like you’re just getting out of a divorce, like
1514 personally I think jumping into a new relationship is a little quick.” I was like,
1515 “I was in a relationship earlier this year and I think this is also a little quick.” 
1516 And I’m like, “So why don’t we take our time?” And I’m like, “If you guys
1517 end up doing a week on, a week off with your kids,” I’m like, “The week you
1518 have your kids be with your children. And the week that you don’t,” I’m like,
1519 “I don’t even want to see you every day,” I’m like, “I think we should spend
1520 like a few days of that together,” I’m like, “‘Cause I like my space and I think
1521 you need your space, I think you need your space to like develop your identity
1522 again and like get it back,” because I think he’s just been like so wrapped up
1523 in this whole thing that he’s got in his own life - in his life that he - I mean he
1524 doesn’t remember probably what it’s like to like be single or have time where
1525 it’s like just him.
1526
1527 Q: Sure.
1528
1529 A: And so I was just like, you know, like embrace that. I think it’s a beautiful
1530 thing and I really try to like take it smart with all that. And it was the same

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

TIMDAD16AUGROOM

1531 thing with his kids, I was just like, you know, like - and I - and we’d talk
1532 about things every once in a while where I - you know, I’d be like, “Hey if I
1533 ever meet,” you know, ‘cause like I have a lot of house plants is a good
1534 example, so I have a lot of house plants and I told - I told him, I was like,
1535 “One day if I ever meet your kids,” I was like, “I’m gonna show these girls
1536 how to like paint pottery and plant some plants.” I was like, “I think they
1537 would love to see something grow that they build, I think it would be really,
1538 really cute.” And like little stuff like that but it wasn’t very frequent, it wasn’t,
1539 “Hey we should get married,” and, “Hey we should have babies,” and, “Hey I
1540 want to live with you,” and, “Hey I need to meet your children now,” and,
1541 “Let’s cut the mom out,” it was never like that.
1542
1543 Q: Okay. And that was - it - there was never any conversation about, you know,
1544 “We can’t do this with her around, we can’t do this with the kids around”?
1545
1546 A: Never.
1547
1548 Q: He never said that...
1549
1550 A: No.
1551
1552 Q: ...you never said that?
1553
1554 A: No. No.
1555
1556 Q: So there - there - the way you guys were trying to make this work was just,
1557 you know, slowly trying to come together because of his current situation and
1558 by your account your own...
1559
1560 A: Mine. I mean I don’t want to rush.
1561
1562 Q: ...you’re - you’re just a - a independent person it sounds like pretty much.
1563
1564 A: Yeah.
1565
1566 Q: And, uh, but through text message or through conversation he never said, uh,
1567 “Hey, uh, you know, this is gonna be financial able - I’m not gonna be
1568 financially able to do this,” or, “This isn’t a good thing, I got these kids,” none
1569 - none of those conversations ever came up?
1570
1571 A: No. I mean he told me like he had a budget restriction so for his apartment --
1572 and I’m pretty sure this is in the text and this will probably be in the last
1573 couple weeks -- um, he told me $1100 to $1400 when I was asking him. Like
1574 ‘cause I told him I’d help him do homework, I was like, “You do some
1575 homework, I’ll do some homework, we’ll knock this out because if you guys

1576 are for real putting the house up you gotta figure it out.” Um, and so that was
1577 his budget and I remember asking him, I was like, “Are you sure you don’t
1578 want to just get like a house?” And he’s like, “I never thought about a house.” 
1579 I’m like, “Yeah you can rent houses man, like it’s a thing,” and he’s just like,
1580 “I don’t know if I can afford that.” I was like, “Okay.” And I knew that those
1581 two had been some financial trouble, I definitely found out a lot more about
1582 that situation in, uh, newspaper recently. Um...
1583
1584 Q: Okay so prior to the newspaper how did you know he was in financial
1585 difficulty?
1586
1587 A: ‘Cause he - I mean I - when I went to that house everything in there is very,
1588 very, very, very nice, it looks like it all comes with a very expensive price tag.
1589 And, uh, I didn’t say anything to him about it but I could kind of tell then
1590 where I was just looking at everything like how do you guys afford this. And
1591 then he has that car, that’s - I don’t even know how much that car costs but I
1592 bet its...
1593
1594 Q: What car - what car is that?
1595
1596 A: That Lexus. I’m sure that thing cost like 80 grand. But just like money, like
1597 everything just looked like it cost a lot of money in that house.
1598
1599 Q: You probably have a decent idea of how much money he makes.
1600
1601 A: Yeah and it’s not enough money to pay for all that, not even close.
1602
1603 Q: And did you have any idea what, um, Shanann did for a living or how much
1604 money she might’ve made?
1605
1606 A: I mean I had an idea, I don’t - I mean I would consider her like a sales rep, I
1607 don’t know how else to describe that. Um, for the company that she worked
1608 for and, uh, I don’t know exactly how much she made. He said that she was
1609 really competitive and she like to try to keep up with him. He’s like, “She gets
1610 close sometimes.” So I don’t know how much those two brought in. I mean
1611 off the top of my head if I could guess, probably somewhere around like
1612 $140K a year. I mean I don’t know. ‘Cause I don’t know exactly how much
1613 he makes and I don’t know exactly how much she makes. But based just off of
1614 what I know about the oil field, like yeah I - I would say that’s probably an
1615 accurate estimate.
1616
1617 Q: So he - even if they’re makin’ let’s just use the figure $100,000, they’re living
1618 above they’re means or below their means?
1619
1620 A: Oh - oh my God, like...

Edited January 8, 2021 by Preety_India