In history, did most things change through pressure or through understanding/insight?

[PurpleTree]

If we take a look at history.

Did things like women's rights, religions, systems of governments, oppression of certain groups, drug laws etc. change mostly because of pressure from the outside and inside.

Did it change more because of insight and understanding. Was ist a mix of those and others. Did it just evolve naturally. Is it different case by case or was there another reason?

[electroBeam]

Necessity is the mother of all invention

[Preety_India]

It changed because people changed. 

With every new generation, the mentality shifts a bit towards progressive to make societies safer for everyone including marginalized communities. 

It's like karma with its sunny side up. 

 

Karma is rooted in our consciousness. 

 

[Rilles]

Did the grass grow because of the sunshine or the rain?

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

It changed because people changed. 

With every new generation, the mentality shifts a bit towards progressive to make societies safer for everyone including marginalized communities. 

It's like karma with its sunny side up. 

 

Karma is rooted in our consciousness. 

 

It's not that everything is just automatically becoming more progressive with every generation though.

For example weed was legal sometime ( a long time ago) then it became illegal in most countries. Cocaine, Heroin etc. could be bought at pharmacies.

Recently abortion was mostly banned in Poland.

Afghanistan at some point was pretty "free" for women etc. and also generally for others.

Before the Nazis and Soviets etc. came to power, a lot of things were probably more progressive in some ways? Others maybe weren't.

But yea in most places things have become more progressive with the last few generations.

 

[PurpleTree]

14 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Did the grass grow because of the sunshine or the rain?

Both and also soil, photosynthesis, mitosis, dna etc.

[Preety_India]

@PurpleTree it's like a graph. In between you'll have glitches or pitfalls before it catches momentum. 

So if you look at the bigger picture, those minor regressions don't make a big difference. 

Overall the graph is going to be progressive. 

Eventually in another 30 years, the world will be much more progressive than what it is today. 

That's just how eventually society evolves. 

Old people die out. Young people bring in new thinking, new paradigm. 

The younger generation is creating a lot of difference in terms of minority rights. 

It's good to see that the world will eventually become a better place for most people. Hope so. 

 

[Rilles]

8 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

It's not that everything is just automatically becoming more progressive with every generation though.

For example weed was legal sometime ( a long time ago) then it became illegal in most countries. Cocaine, Heroin etc. could be bought at pharmacies.

Recently abortion was mostly banned in Poland.

Afghanistan at some point was pretty "free" for women etc. and also generally for others.

Before the Nazis and Soviets etc. came to power, a lot of things were probably more progressive in some ways? Others maybe weren't.

But yea in most places things have become more progressive with the last few generations.

 

Progression is not always a straight line... It comes with backlash and unintended consequences... Just look at Trump. You might say US is better now than ever but at the same time its the worst its ever been... But would you rather live in the 1960s.  

For every step forward theres going to be someone who liked their comfort zone. 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Rilles

[PurpleTree]

12 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@PurpleTree it's like a graph. In between you'll have glitches or pitfalls before it catches momentum. 

So if you look at the bigger picture, those minor regressions don't make a big difference. 

Overall the graph is going to be progressive. 

Eventually in another 30 years, the world will be much more progressive than what it is today. 

That's just how eventually society evolves. 

Old people die out. Young people bring in new thinking, new paradigm. 

The younger generation is creating a lot of difference in terms of minority rights. 

It's good to see that the world will eventually become a better place for most people. Hope so. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Progression is not always a straight line... It comes with backlash and unintended consequences... Just look at Trump. You might say US is better now than ever but at the same time its the worst its ever been... But would you rather live in the 1960s.  

Although sometimes those "glitches" and "backlashes" seem to take hundreds and hundreds of years. Like for example the dark ages in Europe.

Where it seemed to regress a lot after the romans/greeks. Although it's hard to tell as there are not that many writings of that time and some natural disasters/plagues et. could have fed into it, so it wouldn't be only the humans fault.

Or in Egypt the old kingdom was seen as the pyramid builders, while the later kingdoms didn't build such tall structures. Don't know which society was better for the general "Egyptian" though

In Rome the late period is seen chaotic with civil wars, moral decay, tyranny etc.

 

 

But yea i hope we get it right this time around  

[Preety_India]

@PurpleTree that's too far back in history. We really don't know if people were really happy back then or not. 

Also you have to remember that back in those days people had no power in transformation of societies because it wasn't like modern day voting, most regimes were violent tyrannical and oppressive. 

Under such kings and queens, any chance of progressive change would have been impossible because people were at the mercy of the decisions taken by Royal rulers. 

But in the past 100 years starting from the 1920s, you can easily see the chart of growth is towards progressive values. 

In the 1960s Civil rights and other progressive movements and regulations were pretty strong post world War 2.

The trend continued into the 80s and 90s but lately there has been a challenge to left wing values with the coining of the term SJW and constant infiltration by right wing media. 

However I do see hope. The right wing crybaby uproar will not last long and progressive movements will once again catch up speed. 

Society has to be progressive in the end. Because you can't have one section of society rich and prosperous and celebrating and the other suffering and decaying. Because suffering also creates misery pits and black holes that eventually suck the whole social system. 

So in order for society to function smoothly all sections of the society have to reach an egalitarian plane. Only when everyone grows together, the society improves. 

 

 

[PurpleTree]

17 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

But in the past 100 years starting from the 1920s, you can easily see the chart of growth is towards progressive values. 

In the 1960s Civil rights and other progressive movements and regulations were pretty strong post world War 2.

The trend continued into the 80s and 90s but lately there has been a challenge to left wing values with the coining of the term SJW and constant infiltration by right wing media. 

However I do see hope. The right wing crybaby uproar will not last long and progressive movements will once again catch up speed. 

Yea i do think we need a bit of conservatism too. Conservatism as in conserving some things for a certain amount of time.

Getting stability etc.

But in the end progressivism is stronger as it's creative and the universe is flowing.

[Rilles]

15 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Yea i do think we need a bit of conservatism too. Conservatism as in conserving some things for a certain amount of time.

Getting stability etc.

But in the end progressivism is stronger as it's creative and the universe is flowing.

The problem is conservativsm is more regressive than conserving. I agree we need to hit the breaks sometimes but we dont need to make abortion illegal, that doesnt stabilize society at all. 

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Rilles said:

The problem is conservativsm is more regressive than conserving. I agree we need to hit the breaks sometimes but we dont need to make abortion illegal, that doesnt stabilize society at all. 

Obviously, that's why i underlined some.

[mandyjw]

Remember legalizing gay marriage? From my point of view it was mostly understanding and insight but there was some pressure too. 

[tsuki]

When people pressure governments to change, they usually have experienced the insight personally.

Take women's rights for example.