Should i trust medical advice on collagen?

[Hero0]

Hello i have knees pain and orthopedic doctor prescribed me to take collagen but its quite expensive those ones that he prescribed me. There are other cheaper and I need your advice on what to do: expensive, cheap or nothing at all because is useless?

[PurpleTree]

If it's basically the same thing in the cheaper brand.

and it's a a trusted brand, maybe read some reviews and why not try it.

[Michael569]

The idea of supplementing collagen is good but in reality, your body first has to break it down to a bunch of amino acids which then get metabolised and end up god knows where. It may as well be that your expensive college pill ends up turned into nail tissue or gut epithelium. It is impossible to diverse a targeted supplement like that to a specific tissue. The size of the molecule compared to the length it would have to travel is like throwing a bowling bowl into a direction of the moon and hoping it will hit it. 

A better approach would be to ensure you get cofactors for collagen production: Vitamin C, proline (amino acid), glycine (amino acid) & hydroxyglycine (another amino aid) and at the same time avoid activities that actively destroy your collagen tissue. 

Here is some advice on what you can try instead: 

GENERAL ADVICE

* alcohol, smoking & obesity are very harmful to joint health 
* physical passivity will also ruin the joint health
* avoid excessively frying and eating a lot of greasy food, excessive amounts of sugar, takeaways, processed food etc. All of these create free radicals in the body that can be damaging your joints. 
* make sure your diet contains a lot of alkaline foods (plant foods) as these counter the acidic effect of animal foods that can also be detrimental to your joints. 
* if overweight, it would be advisable to try to lose weight. 
* despite the pain it is still a good idea to put some pressure on the joint to force it to adapt. If possible try to walk a bit every day even if you had to use a crutch or other orthopaedic support
* make sure your posture is good and that you don't sit on your legs or spend a lot of time in unnatural seating positions. 

DIET 
* look up sources of high vitamin C and eat them every day. You'll notice that most of them are fruits & vegetables so it is a good idea to make vegetables 50% of your plate size and fruits part of your breakfast especially berries
* glycine & proline are commonly found across most of the protein-rich food sources so eat an abundance of legumes, whole grains, nuts & seeds. Tofu is also great & so is tempeh. Lean meats from sustainable sources can be helpful but can also be too acidic so I'd limit them to 2-3 portions per week max. 
* you may also look into vegan bone-broths (I wouldn't suggest a real bone growth as bones are lead-rich tissues and the risk of contamination is too high) 
* I believe cabbage juice can be very helpful as well 

SUPPLEMENTAL SUPPORT 

If you are looking for a supplement to help you rebuild the glycosaminoglycans in the joint cartilage, then glucosamine sulphate, chondroitin sulphate and methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) have some good evidence and history of usage. MSM seems to have questionable efficacy but the first two combined could be very helpful.  You can often find them together...but this won't do it if the cartilage of the knee has either been completely destroyed or there are other factors damaging the joint such as inflammation (e.g. rheumatoid arthritis).

* Ensure your Vitamin D is at an optimal level (50-65ng/mL) 

* If your diet is devoid of Omega 3 fatty acids, that should be looked into as well.

* Ginger tea several times a day can help with the inflammation (this is not a fix thou) and so can tea containing turmeric. 

 

Hope that's helpful

[PurpleTree]

wow that's a lot of info ^^

6 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

* you may also look into vegan bone-broths (I wouldn't suggest a real bone growth as bones are lead-rich tissues and the risk of contamination is

 i eat bone broth quite often lately for gut health. what's a vegan bone broth though? and seems like it doesn't contain collagen which is the part which would help for joint issues etc.

[Michael569]

17 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

 i eat bone broth quite often lately for gut health

not a good idea imo

18 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

what's a vegan bone broth though?

basically bunch of vegetables and legumes rich in amino acids needed to help you build more materials for collagen production. 

18 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

? and seems like it doesn't contain collagen which is the part which would help for joint issues etc.

Collagen is a protein molecule made of 3 amino acids. Like I mentioned in the post you don't build collagen by eating collagen. Your body creates collagen from the amino acids you eat. Collagen molecule would have never been able to be absorbed, it needs to be broken down anyway and after that you have no control over where the amino acids actually go. 

The high risk of contamination from things like bone broth is not worth the tiny probability that those materials will land in your joints which they most likely won't but I might be completely wrong about this so definitely do your research 

[Hero0]

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

The idea of supplementing collagen is good but in reality, your body first has to break it down to a bunch of amino acids which then get metabolised and end up god knows where. It may as well be that your expensive college pill ends up turned into nail tissue or gut epithelium. It is impossible to diverse a targeted supplement like that to a specific tissue. The size of the molecule compared to the length it would have to travel is like throwing a bowling bowl into a direction of the moon and hoping it will hit it. 

A better approach would be to ensure you get cofactors for collagen production: Vitamin C, proline (amino acid), glycine (amino acid) & hydroxyglycine (another amino aid) and at the same time avoid activities that actively destroy your collagen tissue. 

Here is some advice on what you can try instead: 

GENERAL ADVICE

* alcohol, smoking & obesity are very harmful to joint health 
* physical passivity will also ruin the joint health
* avoid excessively frying and eating a lot of greasy food, excessive amounts of sugar, takeaways, processed food etc. All of these create free radicals in the body that can be damaging your joints. 
* make sure your diet contains a lot of alkaline foods (plant foods) as these counter the acidic effect of animal foods that can also be detrimental to your joints. 
* if overweight, it would be advisable to try to lose weight. 
* despite the pain it is still a good idea to put some pressure on the joint to force it to adapt. If possible try to walk a bit every day even if you had to use a crutch or other orthopaedic support
* make sure your posture is good and that you don't sit on your legs or spend a lot of time in unnatural seating positions. 

DIET 
* look up sources of high vitamin C and eat them every day. You'll notice that most of them are fruits & vegetables so it is a good idea to make vegetables 50% of your plate size and fruits part of your breakfast especially berries
* glycine & proline are commonly found across most of the protein-rich food sources so eat an abundance of legumes, whole grains, nuts & seeds. Tofu is also great & so is tempeh. Lean meats from sustainable sources can be helpful but can also be too acidic so I'd limit them to 2-3 portions per week max. 
* you may also look into vegan bone-broths (I wouldn't suggest a real bone growth as bones are lead-rich tissues and the risk of contamination is too high) 
* I believe cabbage juice can be very helpful as well 

SUPPLEMENTAL SUPPORT 

If you are looking for a supplement to help you rebuild the glycosaminoglycans in the joint cartilage, then glucosamine sulphate, chondroitin sulphate and methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) have some good evidence and history of usage. MSM seems to have questionable efficacy but the first two combined could be very helpful.  You can often find them together...but this won't do it if the cartilage of the knee has either been completely destroyed or there are other factors damaging the joint such as inflammation (e.g. rheumatoid arthritis).

* Ensure your Vitamin D is at an optimal level (50-65ng/mL) 

* If your diet is devoid of Omega 3 fatty acids, that should be looked into as well.

* Ginger tea several times a day can help with the inflammation (this is not a fix thou) and so can tea containing turmeric. 

 

Hope that's helpful

Thanks a lot for your advice!! 

Im eating healthy I would say excepting that my food plate is not 50% vegetables but still eating healthy is a priority for me.

What if my body cant create enough collagen? By the way Im diagnosed with patella subluxation and also I make a lot of physical activity wich includes a lot my knees, Im working on my knee rehabilitation to ease my problem but this procces is long and sometimes i get knee pain. Also in my last few days a lot of other joints started to feel dumb that's why I asked you guys, and thanks again @Michael569

[Hero0]

Just now, Hero0 said:

What if my body cant create enough collagen?

Or maybe that could be just an unconscious belief. What I mean by that is placebo effect.

[Michael569]

14 hours ago, Hero0 said:

What if my body cant create enough collagen?

Have you maybe been assessed for osteoarthritis or RA? Could be that there is something else going on

[smurf88]

On 11/2/2020 at 1:43 PM, Hero0 said:

Hello i have knees pain and orthopedic doctor prescribed me to take collagen but its quite expensive those ones that he prescribed me. There are other cheaper and I need your advice on what to do: expensive, cheap or nothing at all because is useless?

You could get a pound of grassfed collagen for $25 and take half a scoop a day, that way it'll last you over 2 months. Can't hurt.