The root of all suffering and joy

[krockerman]

Desire, 

desire is the fundemental root of all suffering and joy. @Leo Gura

and everyone else here are right that if you want to get rid of your suffering you should get rid of your desire because the fundamental definition of suffering is desires that is unfurfilled, But anyone here that don’t think getting rid of your desires is necessary is also right because getting rid of your desires means getting rid of your joy. Because the definition of joy is a fulfilled desire. 

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by krockerman

[Moksha]

Dissolving desire doesn't mean dissolving joy. Desire is the misalignment of what is with what you want it to be. Joy is embracing what is, and realizing that you are what is.

There are people with terminal cancer that have awakened, and every remaining moment of their life is filled with joy.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Moksha

[krockerman]

Just now, Moksha said:

Dissolving desire doesn't mean dissolving joy. Desire is the misalignment of what is what what you want it to be. Joy is embracing what is, and realizing that you are what is.

There are people with terminal cancer that have awakened, and every remaining moment of their life is filled with joy.

The reason that they are joyful is that they have the desire to experience joy that comes from enlightenment. In the same way that you can desire to avoid pain while being burned. Just because you have it does not mean you can’t desire it. If you where given the most joyful feeling in the world but have no desire to experience joy. You would not enjoy it. Same with if you where to experince the most painful thing in the world, if you had no desire to avoid pain it’s not actually painful. Everything love, joy etc are all fundamentally desire. Even having a state where you have almost no desire just having a very peaceful state of mind. The desire to have that peaceful state of mind is what is still desire. 

[Member]

Quote

The Buddha said, “We suffer because we desire. If you can give up desire, you won’t suffer.” But he didn’t say that as the last word; he said that as the opening step of a dialogue. Because if you say that to someone, they’re going to come back after a while and say, “Yes, but I’m now desiring not to desire.” And so the Buddha will answer, “Well! At last! You’re beginning to understand the point!” Because you can’t give up desire; why would you try to do that? It’s already desire. So in the same way you say, “You ought to be unselfish,” or to give up you ego. Let go; relax. Why do you want to do that? Just because it’s another way of beating the game, isn’t it? The moment, you see, you hypothesize that you are different from the universe, you want to get one-up on it. But if you try to get one-up on the universe, and you’re in competition with it, it means you don’t understand you are it. You think there’s a real difference between Self and other. But Self—what you call yourself, and what you call other are mutually necessary to each other like back and front. They’re really one.

Link

[Member]

PS. I would say it is rather ignorance than desire.

[Moksha]

They are enlightened because they have surrendered all desires, including the desire for joy. Peace, joy, and love are their natural state.

The Buddha’s contemporaries described him as “ever-smiling". Not in the "fat, happy Buddha" sense that you see in misguided statues; these are actually based on a Chinese monk named Budai. The Buddha is most accurately depicted with a small smile.

There is a reason enlightened people are known for their happiness and sense of play. It's more than just the absence of suffering:

Quote

Let us live most happily, possessing nothing; let us feed on joy, like radiant gods. (The Buddha, Dhammapada 15:4)

Edited November 2, 2020 by Moksha

[Mvrs]

44 minutes ago, krockerman said:

Desire, 

desire is the fundemental root of all suffering and joy. @Leo Gura

and everyone else here are right that if you want to get rid of your suffering you should get rid of your desire because the fundamental definition of suffering is desires that is unfurfilled, But anyone here that don’t think getting rid of your desires is necessary is also right because getting rid of your desires means getting rid of your joy. Because the definition of joy is a fulfilled desire. 

 

Thinking anything could exist, believing in the I am . 

[Breakingthewall]

@krockerman you never are going to find joy satisfying any desire, it's like a drug, you satisfies one and another appears. The only possible real joy is the absence of desires

[tsuki]

You are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Suffering is what you do and it is irrespective of desire. By taking away desire, you are denying love.

[krockerman]

42 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@krockerman you never are going to find joy satisfying any desire, it's like a drug, you satisfies one and another appears. The only possible real joy is the absence of desires

If you have No desire to wanting to experince that joyfull state while you are in it then it is not acually joyfull. About thougts. Don’t confuse correlation for causation. Thoughts are not desires. You may think you desire money but you may actually desire the freedom that comes with it. But it can also lead to suffering because you may get people who are trying to use you for your money. Even the joy for. enlightenment don’t last forever so it’s just as impermanent as any other desire. I don’t say this because I want to shame the people who want to awake I am just pointing out why we are all right whatever we desire or not desire to get rid of our desires (that is still a desire)

[DLH]

For what it is worth, here are my thoughts, ideas, and beliefs on the topic.

Without Thoughts, Desires and Energy, there is no Consciousness.  Consciousness can only exist when these three elements are working together.  If you did not focus on a thought and have a desire to live, you would not be experiencing this or any other physical or non physical reality.  Energy is the medium which allows thoughts and desires to express themselves in “Infinite” forms.  Consciousness is Energy in action.  You need a thought and desire to put energy in action. 

To have a Desire you need to amalgamate many thoughts to form an idea (s), which then allows you to form an image.  When you combine similar images together and focus on them they will eventually produce a desire that will create and transform those images into a reality.  Beliefs are the glue that holds the reality together, and emotions are “Energies” that allow the birth of creativity to expand and express its self!

The purpose of this reality is to responsibly create your reality, fully aware and conscious of how you manipulate thoughts and desires with compassion, accountability and with no attachments. 

Being open to new thoughts and perceptions will open the doorway to expanded Consciousness and awareness!

Edited November 2, 2020 by DLH

[Breakingthewall]

@krockerman well ,I don't agree...for example try to remember when you were 5 years old. Many people live in the joy at that age. Why? Because your desires are satisfied? No, because joy is the natural state of the being that you are. Mostly that pure being is corrupted with desires, less joy . The joy is the state that remains when all interferences are removed

[Moksha]

47 minutes ago, krockerman said:

If you have No desire to wanting to experince that joyfull state while you are in it then it is not acually joyfull. 

If you desire to be joyful, you are not joyful. How can you desire to be joyful and be joyful at the same time?

If instead you mean, "desire to continue being joyful", then you are setting yourself up for unhappiness. Joy is found in the present, never in the future.

[An young being]

Desire is the want of the experience. It disappears as soon as we start experiencing what we want and reappears in another form once our mind is done with it. Desire is very much essential in the initial stages of meditation to realize that desire is the cause for suffering.

Once you realize that, you would be satisfied with everything as it is, even with desire.

[How to be wise]

@krockerman There is a difference between desire and needs. ‘Desire’ is actually a positive thing. You want to change reality to something else. ‘Needs’ is not being okay with reality as it is. Focus on dissolving your ‘needs’ rather than ‘desires’.

[Someone here]

It plays a role but notice that it's not inclusive. For example experiencing pain or discomfort  can come on its own accord without any relationship to "desires" like getting sick or losing a loved ones. So then comes aversion to "bad" stuff. That also plays a role.  And these are just only two factors. Suffering stands on its own. It's a thing in and of itself. It is it's own cause. It's not related entirely to your desires and aversions. If we slice your body into a half you gonna suffer no matter what. 

[Consilience]

4 hours ago, iameternallife said:

Desires are just thoughts identified with; if you remain as the awareness without identifying with any thought; you will automatically have no desires either; so simply notice you are aware right now and rest as the awareness without identifying with any thought/emotion/sensation/perception/experience as identifying as any of them is the root of all suffering. Rest only as the awareness.

This is precisely incorrect. Desire is the underlying energy for survival activity. Even if you identify as awareness, desire will remain regardless, as will survival activity. I guess in a sense "you" no longer desire, but it's not because desire no longer arises; desire to live is going to remain until death.

Also, identifying as awareness is another attachment that needs to be let go of to know thyself. Can be a very sneaky last ditch effort of the ego to survive. 

[krockerman]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

@krockerman well ,I don't agree...for example try to remember when you were 5 years old. Many people live in the joy at that age. Why? Because your desires are satisfied? No, because joy is the natural state of the being that you are. Mostly that pure being is corrupted with desires, less joy . The joy is the state that remains when all interferences are removed

What are you talking about? When I was 5 year old I had losts of desires, playing with toys, friends, going to waterparks etc and I can tell you from first hand experince that those desires bringed me alot of joy.

I have had a phase where I kinda lost most of most of my desires. I stopped desire to hang out with friends, having fun. The only desire I had is that i wanted to escape the numbness. When my desires where strong reality was alot more exciting and joyful. If you stopped the desire to be in an enlightend joyful state you Would choose to become denlightend.
 

Even the desire to not want any desire is still a desire. If leo Would stop having the desire to awake, meditate etc he would stop doing it. Just because you have the desire to be joyful does not automatically make you joyful. Same with if you have the desire to awake, it won’t happen magically you need to do the work. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by krockerman

[krockerman]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

It plays a role but notice that it's not inclusive. For example experiencing pain or discomfort  can come on its own accord without any relationship to "desires" like getting sick or losing a loved ones. So then comes aversion to "bad" stuff. That also plays a role.  And these are just only two factors. Suffering stands on its own. It's a thing in and of itself. It is it's own cause. It's not related entirely to your desires and aversions. If we slice your body into a half you gonna suffer no matter what. 

Not if I don’t have the desire to avoid pain. 

[krockerman]

4 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@krockerman There is a difference between desire and needs. ‘Desire’ is actually a positive thing. You want to change reality to something else. ‘Needs’ is not being okay with reality as it is. Focus on dissolving your ‘needs’ rather than ‘desires’.

Good point. Needs are still desires. Desiers comes in all shapes and sizes. Leo has even said that you should have a life of wants not needs. But I don’t think it is a black or white thing. A need does not have to cause major suffering.

Btw Leo has said that love is desire. So even big man Leo does not disagree with me fundamentaly 

Edited November 2, 2020 by krockerman