Meditation Vs. Psychedelics: The Power Of Your Mind

[Jodistrict]

The state of the unconscious mind can determine one’s ability to meditate.  Consider Bill who had an ideal childhood with understanding parents and little trauma.  John had a traumatic childhood.  Bill can meditate, but John can’t focus because his mind is permanently distracted.  In the East, they address this issue with the concept of “karma”.  So, the Buddha could attain enlightenment because he worked on himself through countless lifetimes, and thus his mind was ready for the final push.  If you are a bad mediator, you have to work on your karma.  

Now, if John does intense psychotherapy to resolve his issues and now can meditate, does that invalidate his meditation?  I think the answer here is clearly not.  Now if John resolves his issues with psychedelic assisted therapy, does that invalidate his mediation?  Why would it?  This seems more likely an attitude generated by an orange culture where you construct the myth of the “individual” and pretend you do everything yourself and take pride in your illusory effort.  It can help to shift out of this culture.  Because if you are a fish swimming in muddy water, some of the mud sticks to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghBxjliqIPY

Edited November 1, 2020 by Jodistrict

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

But generally, and more often than not, psychedelic users are delusional to high degrees. Or aren't they?

 Based on the standards most sober minds create as “delusional”. . . yes most psychedelic users would be considered delusional to a high degree. This is why experience and maturity is so important. Quite often, psychedelic users have tapped into something profound, yet are unable to articulate it. They would seem “out there” and “delusional”. Yet someone with a lot of integrated psychedelic experience would likely be able to understand what they are trying to articulate. For example, my early 5-Meo trips were so “out there”, I had no words to articulate it and I was very ungrounded. I sounded like a delusional person to “normal” people. Yet Leo was able to intuit what I expressed and pretty much said “this part of the puzzle has been revealed, yet it doesn’t seem like this piece has been revealed. You may want to focus on integrating abc and start inquiring about xyz”. After doing so, there was greater clarity and I was able to articulate better. Then I wasn’t seen as “delusional” anymore. One time I was explaining it’s essence and a Buddhist teacher smiled and said “you know understand the heart sutra”. I was like “huh, I forgot. What’s that again?”. After looking it up I was like “Omigosh! The author of this knows!”. I had only heard the sutras words via my intellect. I had never been prior to the words in which the essence tries to express itself through words. 

Yet I only have my own experience with psychedelics. I resonated well with them as part of a holistic approach, yet not everyone does. Ram Dass reached high spiritual realms and for him his psychedelic use was a distraction. Yet the experience of others only plays a small role in my decisions. I move more with intuition and resonance. I met a woman who did an Aya retreat and the resonance was so strong that I knew I was going to do it and started planning a trip to Peru the next day. The interaction with her carried more weight if 1,000 people without Aya experience told me it was just hallucinations and delusional. That would actually increase my desire to do the Aya retreat.  

[wesyasz]

You cannot escape into meditation or come back into something. Whatever is, it is. You cannot escape what is, because then, that is what is. If you are escaping, this is what is. If you are not escaping, that is what is. Whatever you do or do not, that is what is. You cannot lost it because it always is and you cannot find it because it is always. There is nothing to do. Only being.

Edited November 1, 2020 by wesyasz

[Loving Radiance]

17 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

Why not?

Because of the long-term effects of cannabis consumption.

 

3 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Last week I was telling a friend about observations / experiences I’ve had with entanglement.

Do you care to share some of these with us?

 

2 hours ago, Shin said:

If you drove from your house to the restaurant, you aren't actually at the restaurant.

You can only go to the restaurant if you walk, driving doesn't count.

 

Driving ?

PSEUDO-WALKING !!!!!!

 

Lol good one

[r0ckyreed]

12 minutes ago, Loving Radiance said:

4 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Last week I was telling a friend about observations / experiences I’ve had with entanglement.

Do you care to share some of these with us?

 

Please @Forestluv I would love for you to share your wisdom with entanglement!

 

13 minutes ago, Loving Radiance said:

Because of the long-term effects of cannabis consumption.

 

Thank you! ?

 

After Self-reflection, I realize that plant medicine is a tool for personal growth and I will explore it in the future. For now, I plan on working on myself before I use the tools. I guess it is like music. I can sing or I can also facilitate singing with a guitar to create harmony with my singing.

[Gesundheit]

4 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Quite often, psychedelic users have tapped into something profound, yet are unable to articulate it. They would seem “out there” and “delusional”.

Profundity is the delusion because it comes from the ego.

[r0ckyreed]

15 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Profundity is the delusion because it comes from the ego.

It actually doesn’t come from ego. The ego takes ownership over intelligence.

[Gesundheit]

4 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

It actually doesn’t come from ego. The ego takes ownership over intelligence.

I don't understand. What does that mean?

[Forestluv]

40 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Profundity is the delusion because it comes from the ego.

Within the construct you are creating of “profundity”, “delusion” and “ego” - yes, that is true. Yet that construct would be a limitation. 

[Gesundheit]

4 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Within the construct you are creating of “profundity”, “delusion” and “ego” - yes, that is true. Yet that construct would be a limitation. 

I am creating? I was talking about truth. You brought up profundity.

Notice also, within the construct you are creating of “expansion” and “limitation” - yes, that is true. Yet the construct would be a limitation.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Forestluv]

41 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I am creating? 

Yep.

41 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Notice also, within the construct you are creating of “expansion” and “limitation” - yes, that is true. Yet the construct would be a limitation.

Yep.

I recognize that both are constructs and I'm not limited to either. There are an infinite number of constructs we can create. (Including this one). Holding ideas loosely and being fluid is freedom of creation.  Yet this is still a surface level of understanding. The phrase "tapping into profundity" is not the actual profundity tapped into. For that understanding, one needs the direct experience of tapping into it. 

[Gesundheit]

1 minute ago, Forestluv said:

I recognize that both are constructs and I'm not limited to either.

It doesn't seem like that. It seems like you're identified with that one construct. Tell me; what lies outside the expansion vs. contraction construct?

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

It doesn't seem like that. It seems like you're identified with that one construct. Tell me; what lies outside the expansion vs. contraction construct?

Hahaha. . . 

What lies outside the "expansion vs. contraction construct" is everything that lies outside the expansion and contraction construct. These constructs are child's play. It's like building a sand castle and someone says "It looks like you are identified with that sand castle. So tell me, what lies outside that sand castle?". . . How could one respond other than giggling and saying "Everything outside the sand castle of course!!"

[Gesundheit]

1 minute ago, Forestluv said:

Hahaha. . . 

What lies outside the "expansion vs. contraction construct" is everything that lies outside the expansion and contraction construct. These constructs are child's play. It's like building a sand castle and someone says "It looks like you are identified with that sand castle. So tell me, what lies outside that sand castle?". . . How could one respond other than giggling and saying "Everything outside the sand castle of course!!"

Nope.

If you had to choose one word for "everything outside the sand castle of course!!", what would it be? One word. Just one. I am not referring to the part vs. whole duality here. I'm referring to something else. The duality of (expansion vs. contraction) vs. (something else). What is that something else?

[Forestluv]

10 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Nope.

If you had to choose one word for "everything outside the sand castle of course!!", what would it be? One word. Just one. I am not referring to the part vs. whole duality here. I'm referring to something else. The duality of (expansion vs. contraction) vs. (something else). What is that something else?

We are sharing sand, yet you are creating your own sand castle. You get to create your "something else".

Guessing what you are creating seems like a silly game to me. But if we are to play a silly game, I guess the "something else" is a Rhinoceros. Am I close?

[The0Self]

The experience of a glimpse of ego death is a bit more likely with psychedelics. Also chemically-induced states of ultra high consciousness, infinity, (and my favorite) "infinite ocean of cosmic consciousness partying and celebrating who the fuck knows what (love)," can be quite life changing. Meditation can be every bit as blissful and worthwhile, but...until you've experienced your own personal will to be no more guided by you than the twists, dips, turns, and drops on a rollercoaster... get some psychedelics. Though meditation can easily provide that insight experience as well, it's usually in somewhat less spectacular fashion.

Edited November 2, 2020 by The0Self

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

Am I closed

-minded? Yes, it seems so ??

I am not talking about being locked inside constructs on an intellectual level. I can't lecture you on that. I take lectures from you. But that's not what I'm talking about. I am talking about a different level of viewing constructs, actuality/awareness level maybe. And it seems like you're missing some components. I am trying to point out these missing components, and you're dismissing them as sand. Of course they're sand, but you aren't seeing the difference. Silly game? Hell no.

Consider the duality of expansion vs. contraction, that's one dynamic. There's another opposing dynamic (so to speak) that you seem to be missing. You seem to value expansion, and that's cool. Yet, is limiting in certain ways. Contemplate how exactly is seeking expansion limiting? What am I missing out on when I am seeking to expand? What is the relationship between expansion and truth? What does expansion refer to exactly? Is it purely intellectual? Or does it have other components? Etc...

Edited November 2, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

-minded? Yes, it seems so ??

Please don’t alter my comments to fit your narrative.

4 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

I am talking about a different level of viewing constructs, actuality/awareness level maybe. And it seems like you're missing some components. I am trying to point out these missing components, and you're dismissing them as sand. Of course they're sand, but you aren't seeing the difference. Silly game? Hell no.

Consider the duality of expansion vs. contraction, that's one dynamic. There's another opposing dynamic (so to speak) that you seem to be missing. You seem to value expansion, and that's cool. Yet, is limiting in certain ways. Contemplate how exactly is seeking expansion limiting? What am I missing out on when I am seeking to expand? What is the relationship between expansion and truth? What does expansion refer to exactly? Is it purely intellectual? Or does it have other components? Etc...

I’m not saying you are incorrect. I’m saying these are your creations, projections and explorations. I wish you the best with it. 

[Gesundheit]

@Forestluv I was trying to be playful but oh well. Anyway, I don't wish you anything.