Is life inherently dissatisfying?

[Thestarguitarist14]

I have been reading Johnny the homicidal  maniac (Great dark comedy comic book, the first thing from the creditor of invader zim) And reading other things as well.  This has been going through my my for years especially when Louis CK (before Metoo) said in an interview on fresh air how life is unsatisfying.

Do you all believe this to be true?  I will say that the older I get the more I realize just how shitty everything is.  Most people, organizations, places and industries are either shitty, fake, or boring.  Most people are out for themselves.  The dating world is at an all time low.  Some men are so stuck in their egos that they go MGTOW.  Some do pick up and stay there forever as there that’s it.  Marriage is a joke.  I can go on.

This is where spirituality comes in and it indeed help to see through the illusion.  It indeed can make living easier.  But will the physical ever be satisfying?  Is that a futile pursuit?

[Megan Alecia]

@Thestarguitarist14 it's dissatisfyng only if you wish to be constantly satisfied. if not, then as a matter of fact you would even get to experience a wider range emotions, or just simply be more of conscious of them...the desire for comfort and closure might be the most dangerous of all. 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Megan Alecia

[Thestarguitarist14]

Just now, Megan Alecia said:

@Thestarguitarist14 it's dissatisfyng only if you wish to be constantly satisfied. if not, then as a matter of fact you would even get to experience a wider range of emotions, or just simply be more of conscious of them...the desire for comfort and closure might be the most dangerous of all. 

I wouldn’t say it’s about wanting to be satisfied all the time or even comfort and closure.  It is more like “when will this end?”

[UnbornTao]

Brendan, useful and clear as always.

You could benefit from this:

 

[commie]

30 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

But will the physical ever be satisfying?

No.

19 minutes ago, Megan Alecia said:

now nothing in life is really permanent.

Yes.

That's two marks out of three.

Edited October 31, 2020 by commie

[No Self]

I cannot speak from experience, but teachings of Eckhart Tolle and the Buddha describe an underlying state of suffering, unease and restlessness in the unenlightened human condition. Much of our behaviour is all about managing it or covering it up through distractions. And yet, the masters say that genuine freedom from it is possible.

[Thestarguitarist14]

33 minutes ago, Arzola said:

Brendan, useful and clear as always.

You could benefit from this:

 

That was really helpful.  What’s funny is that I just finished RCR tapping for thirty days on lack.  It helped a ton, but I most focused on money and only a little bit on other areas.  Good reminder.

 

33 minutes ago, Megan Alecia said:

@Thestarguitarist14 it'll end once you die, not you but in general. 

now nothing in life is really permanent. Like camus said 'do not wait for judgement day to come. it happens everyday. ' life does has some stages to it, as you may notice, altho no one really knows what except for the fact that each stage of it has a beginning, middle and end; you could say life imitates art. and the latter is ALWAYS just a matter of time, precisely because of impermanence. 

Funny, last night I was hoping to die as I stuffed my face for the first time in ages.  My tooth filling cracked and I was like wtf...

True, nothing is permanent, this I know and understand.  I guess right now the world is going through a “despairing cycle”. 
 

8 minutes ago, No Self said:

I cannot speak from experience, but teachings of Eckhart Tolle and the Buddha describe an underlying state of suffering, unease and restlessness in the unenlightened human condition. Much of our behaviour is all about managing it or covering it up through distractions. And yet, the masters say that genuine freedom from it is possible.

Whenever I am alone and just being, I feel great.  But the more spiritual I become, whenever I enter the physical I feel disappointed.  Especially if something does not go my way.  It makes me wonder what the point it all is.  A lot of people want you to be a part of the illusion as if it will make you happy.  But it only makes me feel worse.

[No Self]

17 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

Whenever I am alone and just being, I feel great.  But the more spiritual I become, whenever I enter the physical I feel disappointed.  Especially if something does not go my way.  It makes me wonder what the point it all is.  A lot of people want you to be a part of the illusion as if it will make you happy.  But it only makes me feel worse.

The sense of 'I' and the story of 'I' is at the centre of all of that.

Ramana says:

"When other thoughts arise, one should not pursue them, but should inquire: ‘To whom do they arise?’ It does not matter how many thoughts arise. As each thought arises, one should inquire with diligence, “To whom has this thought arisen?”. The answer that would emerge would be “To me”. Thereupon if one inquires “Who am I?”, the mind will go back to its source; and the thought that arose will become quiescent. With repeated practice in this manner, the mind will develop the skill to stay in its source. When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain and the senseorgans, the gross names and forms appear; when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart is what is called “inwardness” (antarmukha). Letting the mind go out of the Heart is known as “externalisation” (bahir-mukha). Thus, when the mind stays in the Heart, the ‘I’ which is the source of all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will shine. Whatever one does, one should do without the egoity “I”. If one acts in that way, all will appear as of the nature of Siva (God)."

[Thestarguitarist14]

24 minutes ago, No Self said:

The sense of 'I' and the story of 'I' is at the centre of all of that.

Ramana says:

"When other thoughts arise, one should not pursue them, but should inquire: ‘To whom do they arise?’ It does not matter how many thoughts arise. As each thought arises, one should inquire with diligence, “To whom has this thought arisen?”. The answer that would emerge would be “To me”. Thereupon if one inquires “Who am I?”, the mind will go back to its source; and the thought that arose will become quiescent. With repeated practice in this manner, the mind will develop the skill to stay in its source. When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain and the senseorgans, the gross names and forms appear; when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart is what is called “inwardness” (antarmukha). Letting the mind go out of the Heart is known as “externalisation” (bahir-mukha). Thus, when the mind stays in the Heart, the ‘I’ which is the source of all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will shine. Whatever one does, one should do without the egoity “I”. If one acts in that way, all will appear as of the nature of Siva (God)."

I like that quote.  Basically that when I am in my ego then I am judging what’s going on around me.  But when there is no “I” everything just is.  
 

Starting to believe that perhaps more “alone time” (if that’s possible, last night was the first time that I left my neighborhood in nearly two months) is needed.  Part of me still feels as though something is missing.  Part of me is still buying into the lie that society is telling me.

[Hugo Oliveira]

In my experience, thinking in terms of levels of consciousness/energy seems very reasonable. When you access better levels, clarity, creativity, connection, love opens up to you and you discover that dissatisfaction is very much based on "energy" and limited paradigms.

It may not be too obvious because we tend to be stuck for long periods in low levels of perception. But if you break through at least once, you get it. In my experience, fasting, yoga, and psychedelics worked well.   You have to find what is powerful and can elevate you. Rationalizing and complaining about how you think reality is doesn't help too much. 

[Thestarguitarist14]

26 minutes ago, Hugo Oliveira said:

In my experience, thinking in terms of levels of consciousness/energy seems very reasonable. When you access better levels, clarity, creativity, connection, love opens up to you and you discover that dissatisfaction is very much based on "energy" and limited paradigms.

It may not be too obvious because we tend to be stuck for long periods in low levels of perception. But if you break through at least once, you get it. In my experience, fasting, yoga, and psychedelics worked well.   You have to find what is powerful and can elevate you. Rationalizing and complaining about how you think reality is doesn't help too much. 

The problem with all these things (I fast and do everyday) is that they gives you glimpses of it, but the effects are not lasting.  The only things that I have found to be lasting are eft tapping, shamanic breathing and guided meditations.  DMT to a certain extent as well. 

That was the main issue during counterculture.  A lot of people got disillusioned with psychedelics because once the high was gone, they were back.  Though I have been working on implementing work I learned on my last two trips.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Thestarguitarist14

[Gesundheit]

Life is inherently meaningless, and so it can take whatever meanings we project on and assign to it.

Dissatisfaction is simply an antonym of acceptance, and a synonym for rejection.

[Thestarguitarist14]

49 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Life is inherently meaningless, and so it can take whatever meanings we project on and assign to it.

Dissatisfaction is simply an antonym of acceptance, and a synonym for rejection.

I have this tattoo that says “this world is cruel, but beautiful.”  
 

While I believe saying that life is inherently meaningless is borderline nihilism, there is truth to it.  
 

I would add that pain is a natural part of life.  That perhaps life is about the kind of pain that you see fit to endure.

[Willie]

3 hours ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

Whenever I am alone and just being, I feel great.  But the more spiritual I become, whenever I enter the physical I feel disappointed.  Especially if something does not go my way.  It makes me wonder what the point it all is.  A lot of people want you to be a part of the illusion as if it will make you happy.  But it only makes me feel worse.

This separation of spiritual and physical is a duality. The trick is to feel great unconditionally.

I’m still working on that also. I know exactly what you mean in those first 2 sentences. I avoid everything and everyone unless necessary (still need a job to pay bills, still need groceries and gas for the car, etc.) and COVID reinforces that. But this avoidance ultimately won’t make me “happy” or “complete”. It’s just a phase in the pursuit of happiness. Things change. Life happens.

[hoodrow trillson]

What about people like me that are always filled with joy, contentment, extreme optimism and somewhat detached of outcome, like 95% of the time?  Life is incredible.  Even the bad parts.

I'm genuinely curious as to if the majority of people grew up dysfunctionally or somewhat traumatized in some way as children--I should look this up and see.  I received tons of love from everyone, especially my parents since I was a baby--so I've noticed my outlook on life and the physical has been very jarringly different in comparison to my peers and friends.  I try to shower them with love that I myself got, to equalize their "negativity" but sometimes that's not enough for them and I understand.  Some of my childhood friends grew up suffering in their household but we always went outside together to play and forget about the "real world" (mind) and got lost in the sensations of playing outside.

Spirituality and meditation (also pyschedelics) made me realize very quickly that most people do not think like that.  And that I was wrong for looking over their problems when I became an adult by just saying, "oh they're just fucked in the head" like I used to.  I guess I used to be quite a bit grandiose and I thankfully snapped out of it but I retained my child-like admiration and wonder to existence itself.  It's nuts.

I want peace in the world.  But I think about the ying and yang to this all and how it may be out of our hands to change it.  It's "perfect" as it is--I just happen to fall into the other side of the coin.

 

 

 

[hoodrow trillson]

Also, I will say this:  you become the content you consume.  The company you keep near you as well.  

[Hugo Oliveira]

1 hour ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

The problem with all these things (I fast and do everyday) is that they gives you glimpses of it, but the effects are not lasting.  The only things that I have found to be lasting are eft tapping, shamanic breathing and guided meditations.  DMT to a certain extent as well. 

That was the main issue during counterculture.  A lot of people got disillusioned with psychedelics because once the high was gone, they were back.  Though I have been working on implementing work I learned on my last two trips.

You're right. Things may not be too easy or magical or instantaneous. What I wanted to question is the statement that "dissatisfaction is inherent to this and that". We are always interpreting according to how we see and experience stuff. 

Why does one choose to fall in love with a paradigm like nihilism as if it were the ultimate reality? 

[Byun Sean]

You have yet to experience a powerful awakening of the heart.

Life is fantastic.

The boundary between the physical and nonphysical is an illusion. A duality.

This is all God. This is all love. 

Solo inner consciousness work is great and it sounds like you have made a lot of progress there.

But it would also help you ten-fold if you opened up to people and relationships more.

 

[No Self]

3 hours ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

Starting to believe that perhaps more “alone time” (if that’s possible, last night was the first time that I left my neighborhood in nearly two months) is needed.  Part of me still feels as though something is missing.  Part of me is still buying into the lie that society is telling me.

I totally feel you. The problem is that pretty much every single thing in society is pushing a completely different agenda to ultimate truth. And being outnumbered by about a billion to 1 makes it hard not to question ourselves and fall in line.

That said, the classic nondual advice in this situation is to be less sympathetic to the mind. Who is the 'I' who needs more alone time? Who believes something is missing? Who buys into society? etc...

The mind sort of sneaks in through the back door, pretending to be engaged in a spiritual pursuit and then sneakily restoring the old patterns. Mooji once said, "The mind is fired, but it keeps showing up for work."

Also interesting, another Ramana quote from a book says something almost the exact opposite of this thread title.

"The conclusion is that happiness is inherent in man and is not due to external causes. One must realize the Self in order to open the store of unalloyed happiness."

[Thestarguitarist14]

59 minutes ago, Willie said:

This separation of spiritual and physical is a duality. The trick is to feel great unconditionally.

I’m still working on that also. I know exactly what you mean in those first 2 sentences. I avoid everything and everyone unless necessary (still need a job to pay bills, still need groceries and gas for the car, etc.) and COVID reinforces that. But this avoidance ultimately won’t make me “happy” or “complete”. It’s just a phase in the pursuit of happiness. Things change. Life happens.

It’s funny how we can all talk about spirituality and being, but when we are faced with the illusion, it’s always a different story.

I actually went out to do this group hike/party in last night.  They left without another person and I.  There were these group of women dog walkers who we hiked with.  The hike was fine and the other person who got left (a woman in her 40s) loved it and found a group of friends.  It was meh for me, didn’t find the one chick that I was gaming all that interesting.  Actually made me feel worse.

I guess it’s a part of it.  
 

1 hour ago, hoodrow trillson said:

What about people like me that are always filled with joy, contentment, extreme optimism and somewhat detached of outcome, like 95% of the time?  Life is incredible.  Even the bad parts.

I'm genuinely curious as to if the majority of people grew up dysfunctionally or somewhat traumatized in some way as children--I should look this up and see.  I received tons of love from everyone, especially my parents since I was a baby--so I've noticed my outlook on life and the physical has been very jarringly different in comparison to my peers and friends.  I try to shower them with love that I myself got, to equalize their "negativity" but sometimes that's not enough for them and I understand.  Some of my childhood friends grew up suffering in their household but we always went outside together to play and forget about the "real world" (mind) and got lost in the sensations of playing outside.

Spirituality and meditation (also pyschedelics) made me realize very quickly that most people do not think like that.  And that I was wrong for looking over their problems when I became an adult by just saying, "oh they're just fucked in the head" like I used to.  I guess I used to be quite a bit grandiose and I thankfully snapped out of it but I retained my child-like admiration and wonder to existence itself.  It's nuts.

I want peace in the world.  But I think about the ying and yang to this all and how it may be out of our hands to change it.  It's "perfect" as it is--I just happen to fall into the other side of the coin.

 

 

 

If you are as genuinely happy as you say you are (it is possible, though for most people that isn’t the case) then perhaps you had good parents l.  However, you may have some repressed memories and have suppressed some emotions as no one gets out of childhood unscathed.

53 minutes ago, hoodrow trillson said:

Also, I will say this:  you become the content you consume.  The company you keep near you as well.  

I believe that the content that you consume can also be life affirming.  As someone who not only consumes, but creates, I like art that is about facing life.  All my favorite artist seems to be dissatisfied with life, or at least expressing some dissatisfaction.

51 minutes ago, Hugo Oliveira said:

You're right. Things may not be too easy or magical or instantaneous. What I wanted to question is the statement that "dissatisfaction is inherent to this and that". We are always interpreting according to how we see and experience stuff. 

Why does one choose to fall in love with a paradigm like nihilism as if it were the ultimate reality? 

I would not call that nihilism per say.  It’s more that we all have been taught that certain things as we grow up will give us happiness.  But they never do.  And so that leaves me to believe that life cannot be all that satisfying if by living it you will experience pain.

28 minutes ago, Byun Sean said:

You have yet to experience a powerful awakening of the heart.

Life is fantastic.

The boundary between the physical and nonphysical is an illusion. A duality.

This is all God. This is all love. 

Solo inner consciousness work is great and it sounds like you have made a lot of progress there.

But it would also help you ten-fold if you opened up to people and relationships more.

 

First off, you don’t know me.  Second off, I have had a heart center and kundalini awakening and I am going through another one right now.  It is not all “lovey dovey and rainbows” like some would like to believe it to be.  That is fluff.  A heart center awakening usually comes with a dark night of the soul.  And that can feel like true darkness.

Saying life is fantastic is only an opinion.  An opinion that most do not have.  Even the most enlightened person would never say that.

You say all this, but at the end of the day, everyone has problems.  Leo has problems, Eckart Tolle has problems, Sadguru has problems.

And this whole thing about relationships and friendships helping is nonsense.  To put it into more technical terms, it is bullshit.  That is just some things that we have been brainwashed to believe.  You get married, but it is dysfunction that brought you two together and you only stay together because of your carnal desires.  Friends only stay friends out of convenience, even if their friendship is toxic.

And besides, I went out last night on a group hike and I felt worse (though it was not with the group that I was supposed to go with).

Also, we are going through a pandemic.

29 minutes ago, No Self said:

I totally feel you. The problem is that pretty much every single thing in society is pushing a completely different agenda to ultimate truth. And being outnumbered by about a billion to 1 makes it hard not to question ourselves and fall in line.

That said, the classic nondual advice in this situation is to be less sympathetic to the mind. Who is the 'I' who needs more alone time? Who believes something is missing? Who buys into society? etc...

The mind sort of sneaks in through the back door, pretending to be engaged in a spiritual pursuit and then sneakily restoring the old patterns. Mooji once said, "The mind is fired, but it keeps showing up for work."

Also interesting, another Ramana quote from a book says something almost the exact opposite of this thread title.

"The conclusion is that happiness is inherent in man and is not due to external causes. One must realize the Self in order to open the store of unalloyed happiness."

My therapist (who has some spiritual concepts, but is overall more 3-D) is really into relationships as I get further and further away from those.  I do my thing, as you said, old patterns come in (going after after sex) and then when some bullshit happens I am pissed.

That quote is interesting.  A lot of people can be happy, but being happy within and without is a different thing.  And doing that consistently is another.