I'm Canadian, but tell me why Biden over Trump?

[7thLetter]

** I apologize in advance if I'm not educated enough for this conversation. Again, I'm Canadian, and I just became interested in American politics this year. What I know about these two is based on what I know from watching all the 2020 debates, and a handful of YouTube videos.**

So we all know that the presidential candidates aren't the best this year, but Americans are left with no choice but to vote for one. In my unbiased opinion, I think the best option for America right now is Trump for another 4 years.

At first though, I was hoping for Biden to win the upcoming election just because I didn't like Trump's character. There's just so much about his character that people don't like, he's a narcissist, a con-man, pathological liar, etc. So I had this mentality of "Please, anyone but Trump." Biden also worked with Obama as his VP and I liked Obama, so that's another reason why I favored Biden.

Until I started to learn more about Biden. We can sit here and talk about him creeping on little girls but that's not important. A couple important points about Biden is that, I truly believe it when people say he hasn't done much in 47 years, and even in 8 years as VP. Maybe someone here could educate me on what he's done because I don't know. There's the Hunter Biden scandal going on, and apparently the Biden family is under criminal investigation right now as we speak. From what I know about this, basically Hunter has been doing some shady business with foreign countries, and Joe was involved in this taking a certain percentage of the profits. Joe denies all of this when its brought up in conversation, but whistle blower "Tony Bobulinski" confirms this. Joe Biden wants to transition into a more "Green" environment-friendly economy. Couple big plans we've heard from Joe is banning fracking, and transitioning out of the oil-industry. Which is great, but I think this comes with the cost of losing a ton of jobs, maybe also even at the cost of increased government spending. Lastly, Joe seems like he's a weak speaker, and it is said that he has dementia. How can he be fit to become president of the US?

Here's my basic understanding of both parties:

Democrats = Focused on Social, Environmental Issues

Republicans = Focused on Economics

So basically, Joe Biden will focus on certain social and environmental issues, but at the cost of the economy. Trump will focus on the economy, but at the cost of social and environmental issues.

At this point, I think the US needs to focus more on the economy. The US is in a deep recession right now and social, environmental issues should be the least of everyone's concern. People might argue that the recession/bad economy right now is Trump's fault, but its because of the virus lock downs, it was inevitable. Every other country is economically suffering also because of the virus, its not just the US. People talk about Trump dividing the people, riots and looting, but in my opinion I think a big reason for all of that is because of the terrible economy everyone is suffering through. It must be the ones living in poverty who are doing the all the looting, crimes, etc. Losing your job, living in poverty, creates mental-health issues, and mental health issues are a big reason for crime. And its not even just the mental-health issues, living in poverty itself creates a desperate desire for a solution, and their solution is to commit crime. Again, the bad economy right now isn't Trump's fault. I think it would be a challenge for any president/government.

In conclusion, why Trump? He's a businessman, we might not like his character but at least he gets stuff done. We might say he's either Stage Red or Orange on the Spiral, and those are the people who are practical, they take action. He's GOOD for the economy.

Why not Biden? He would be more of a Stage Blue/Green president. He cares for the environment + social issues and that might be good and all for growing the collective consciousness of America, but I still think the economy is more important at this point. If Biden is elected then we could see a total collapse of the US economy, and that would bring even more social issues like extreme poverty, homelessness, increased crime rate etc. Plus if he's Blue/Green, then he's all talk no action. He would promise so many things but won't act on those promises. And that's already been proven to us, check his record.

I'd love to hear what you guys have to say about my unbiased opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong about anything, let me know if my points are valid. I feel that I have a strong opinion here, but at the same time maybe I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

[Preety_India]

When democrats are in power, the economy does better than when Republicans are in power. This has been observed. 

Also Trump is not helping the economy at all. In fact he is tanking the economy with his humongously egregious response to Covid-19. 

 

[Parththakkar12]

Welcome to politics! Welcome to the madhouse clown-show that politics is.

49 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

So basically, Joe Biden will focus on certain social and environmental issues, but at the cost of the economy. Trump will focus on the economy, but at the cost of social and environmental issues.

Political noob mistake #1 - You believe your ears. Don't believe your ears! Don't believe one word a politician says. Only focus on what they do. Talk is cheap and it's even cheaper in politics.

44 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

At this point, I think the US needs to focus more on the economy. The US is in a deep recession right now and social, environmental issues should be the least of everyone's concern. People might argue that the recession/bad economy right now is Trump's fault, but its because of the virus lock downs, it was inevitable. Every other country is economically suffering also because of the virus, its not just the US. People talk about Trump dividing the people, riots and looting, but in my opinion I think a big reason for all of that is because of the terrible economy everyone is suffering through. It must be the ones living in poverty who are doing the all the looting, crimes, etc. Losing your job, living in poverty, creates mental-health issues, and mental health issues are a big reason for crime. And its not even just the mental-health issues, living in poverty itself creates a desperate desire for a solution, and their solution is to commit crime. Again, the bad economy right now isn't Trump's fault. I think it would be a challenge for any president/government.

Political noob mistake #2 - You think they're there to help you. You think they'll focus on the economy because that's what the economy may need. That's not true at all. Trump is the biggest opportunist ever, he will say whatever gets him power and popularity. Other politicians are also opportunists, but Trump's the biggest one of them all.

47 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

In conclusion, why Trump? He's a businessman, we might not like his character but at least he gets stuff done. We might say he's either Stage Red or Orange on the Spiral, and those are the people who are practical, they take action. He's GOOD for the economy.

Political noob mistake #3 - You trust politicians. You think they'll solve your problems, they're a 'benevolent force' there to protect and preserve the population. You think that because they said so and you believed them. Refer to noob mistake #2.

They will say they'll do something, not because they can or want to deliver on it, but because the public is fool enough to believe them and vote for them in a reactionary manner. It's all about votes, it's all about power, it's all about titles like 'President', 'Vice-President', 'Senator', 'Congressman' or whatever other title they've got. That's the reality of politics. It is a food-fight mud-slinging contest for power. This is why people call it dirty, because it is. Now this doesn't mean you shouldn't get involved in it, this is just the present-day reality of politics.

Lucky for you that I'm telling you this while you're still a noob!

[PurpleTree]

yea i'm not sure if the economy is more important than the environment, probably not

[7thLetter]

@Parththakkar12 Yes I am a noob, and I don't doubt what you're saying. But now that we know that, we're still left with the question of WHO do the Americans vote for? Who will do a better job at serving the American people?

@PurpleTree It's debatable, there's lots to think about, there's a lot of pros and cons to focusing on one or the other. If you think the environment is more important, then that means you think its a good idea to have millions of jobless, homeless, Americans living in poverty running around committing crime and rioting. Just so they can have clean air, clean ocean water, maybe have some nice flowers grown in the grass. Actually I think it would be nice to have some crime going on with some clean air and flowers so all the viral videos of crime being taken place would look nicer and we could see the crime happening clearly on video without the polluted air.

I'm saying the economy should be the main focus right now, because the US is currently in a deep recession. The environment should be secondary at this point.

The economy is already bad right now, look what's happening. The solution to this is not to focus on the environment.

[Meditationdude]

@7thLetter Biden is a horrible choice for us as Americans and he will probably not accomplish much, but ANYONE and I mean ANYONE is better than a racist sociopath and compulsive liar. This isn’t a question about policy and the American government, this is about basic human rights, equality and safety. And for that I voted for Biden. Had a monkey been running for office I may have voted for the monkey over both of them lol

Edited October 30, 2020 by Meditationdude

[PurpleTree]

3 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

 

@PurpleTree It's debatable, there's lots to think about, there's a lot of pros and cons to focusing on one or the other. If you think the environment is more important, then that means you think its a good idea to have millions of jobless, homeless, Americans living in poverty running around committing crime and rioting. Just so they can have clean air, clean ocean water, maybe have some nice flowers grown in the grass.

Actually not really, people who care more about the environment generally also care more about the homeless etc. than the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" extreme free market capitalists.

[Leo Gura]

You are 4 years late.

[Meditationdude]

@Leo Gura Watcha mean? 

[TrustTheProcess]

lol, why specifically do you think republican policies are good for economics?

[Applegarden]

Hmm, it seems like Biden will do a better job with covid than the blatant dishonesty Trump is suggesting. In a general sense though, it's that Trump is really showing himself very badly and lying constantly, so I want to look for a Biden as a better option, for the mere fact he acts more professionally and adresses the questions asked to him.

[Finax]

11 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

So basically, Joe Biden will focus on certain social and environmental issues, but at the cost of the economy.

Joe Biden is just as concerned about the economy as any politician has to be. Stage Green politicians don't neglect economy, they transcend and include. Democrats are concerned with the same issues as Republicans, but they are also concerned with extra issues like the environment, that the conservatives cannot understand.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Finax

[eggopm3]

I'm canadian and US politics are shoved in my face all the time, so I don't know how you've managed to avoid it. We just had a provincial election in BC and over the last month I probably saw 10 times more coverage of the US election I can't vote in than the election I actually could.

[7thLetter]

13 hours ago, Meditationdude said:

@7thLetter Biden is a horrible choice for us as Americans and he will probably not accomplish much, but ANYONE and I mean ANYONE is better than a racist sociopath and compulsive liar.

@Meditationdude Biden has a history of racism too does he not? And he lies at times as well. Maybe not to the extent that Trump does but he denies anything ever happened with the whole Hunter Biden story, avoids answering any questions about it as well, says he supports banning fracking then later says he opposes banning fracking, avoids questions about packing the court, etc. I'm sure there's more examples that I don't know of.

@PurpleTree Even if they do care about homelessness, are they actually effective when it comes to doing something about it, or are they just all talk?

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are 4 years late.

@Leo Gura What do you mean

@louhad All I know is that Biden wants to transition out of the oil & gas industry to create a "Clean Energy" future. That's great and all but I would imagine that to be detrimental to the US economy, in the short term at least. That's going to cost a ton of jobs, increased government spending for manufacturing & installations, potentially more tax cuts on Americans as a result of this, and "Clean Energy" could also be more expensive for daily use so bill payments will increase.

@Applegarden Covid already happened, and seems like it would be hard for any President to manage. Every other country is suffering too because of this pandemic. Seems like Biden is coming from an outside perspective, looking at what Trump did so far, and is pointing the finger talking about things Trump should've done. Its like as if car crash already happened and killed 4 people, and Biden's like, "Come on man, you shouldn't have drove there. You could've saved 4 LIVES. Now an American family will sit at the dinner table tonight with 4 EMPTY SEATS."

If you've read what I mentioned a couple times on this thread, he avoids questions about court packing, and the Hunter Biden story. Plus he has dementia, often forgets certain things and some of the things he says are gibberish. So.. Addresses questions asked, and acts more professionally? Sure, acts more professional than Trump at times but anyways both candidates are terrible.

@Finax I know I said Biden is Blue/Green, but I actually see him as pure blue on the spiral.

@eggopm3 You're Vancouver too? Nice. I don't watch TV so that must be how I've been able to avoid it. I just use my laptop & phone and I intentionally watched the debates + intentionally learned more about their politics.

I'll be completely honest I don't know much about our own election/politics as much as I know US politics, lol stupid of me.

 

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

 

@PurpleTree Even if they do care about homelessness, are they actually effective when it comes to doing something about it, or are they just all talk?

 

 

i don't know too much about murican politics and don't really care that much tbh. but didn't reagan and his team (a republican) throw a lot of people who were mentally ill on the streets and close down facilities? seems like a lot of people who are homeless in the us have mental issues and need some kind of help. in europe in central european a lot of western european and nordic countries etc. we have far less homeless than the us. (france and italy might have a lot, not sure) i was shocked when i visited the us as a kid for the first time and saw all the poverty because i just knew the us mostly from hollywood movies.

obviously it's not a 100% comparable, the us is huge and los angeles is warm, that's also a reason why there are so many homeless but the system is far more cruel, people can lose everything and land on the street pretty soon, here we have lots of social institutions.

[Parththakkar12]

19 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

Yes I am a noob, and I don't doubt what you're saying. But now that we know that, we're still left with the question of WHO do the Americans vote for? Who will do a better job at serving the American people?

I'd suggest we just drop this old system, not vote in it, not lend it our energy and focus on building a new system. Everyone hates this system, especially the fact that it's too bi-partisan.

The elites are really selfish and corrupt to the core. Denying this is just ridiculous at this point. Yes, we don't have 'proof' against them, but if you ask yourself hand-to-heart - Are they in their Life Purpose? Do they actually care about people? There's nobody above them holding them accountable, which makes this question all the more important. The answer is - obviously not.

This system, that depends on selfishness and zero-sum games, is on it's downward trajectory. It's not been created by conscious people with the intention of having a peaceful and harmonious society, it's evolved unconsciously due to the selfish actions of the most power-hungry and ruthless elites. If we want an opportunity to create a new system that is more conscious and evolved, that actually wants a peaceful, in-alignment and harmonious society, this one has to go first. (I'm not just ragging on the elites here. Even those at the bottom have contributed to the dysfunctionality. It's just that the shadows of the elites matter more, because they're elites and they have more power.)

Humanity has never had an opportunity in history to consciously create their own society that values peace and harmony. That opportunity has yet to come and I think it is knocking on our door right now. If we let this system go and strategically prepare for the time when it won't be there anymore, we can really create a conscious system that actually cares about the people and is good for the people.

Working on your Life Purpose and changing the world yourself is a much better idea than relying on someone else to do it for you. Only those with a Life Purpose, who care about the collective will survive this crash. I don't even think that who you vote for matters at this point!

[7thLetter]

@PurpleTree No idea but Reagan was decades ago.

And yea its sad but true. I'm sure they've had a huge issue with homelessness for years now, it stems from an even bigger issue of mental health problems and drug use. They just have so many drugs in large amounts coming in from their next door neighbor Mexico. Plus they probably have the most garbage in their food out of all countries. All these different candies, soda pops, fast food, I'm sure are linked to a lot of diseases that most people probably have never even heard of.

I was shocked as well when I lived in Hollywood for a month. There's just hundreds of homeless people sleeping all over the Hollywood walk of fame. I heard its similar in New York too.

@Parththakkar12 Honestly, true. I think its time we see this thing collapse. We need to see a total reset to start all over again. The Universe will decide. Seems like Biden has a good chance of winning at this point, let's see what happens.

[Hatfort]

On 30/10/2020 at 11:38 AM, 7thLetter said:

Here's my basic understanding of both parties:

Democrats = Focused on Social, Environmental Issues

Republicans = Focused on Economics

Well, your understanding is not very deep and quite flawed.

What is economy? Is it big corporations doing good but without this translating to the workers that work hard for them, but just to a minor elite? Well, this elite may buy yatches, it may be good for the business of yatches, but I can tell you that for the economy, in general, is awful. Going to social issues now, if people's purchasing power is low, it's bad for so many businesses they will stop getting service from. Those businesses are run by people with families too. Is it good for the economy that those elites don't pay taxes or legislations make it easy or even legal to evade them? For their economy it may be good, for the economy in general it's awful. Is it good for the economy to have people on the edge of poverty or directly homeless and struggling to have food? At some point, we gotta look the large numbers of the economy, see where the most amount of money is and where is not. The best way to reactivate the economy and the flow of money is to start redistributing again. The legal system now is being lobbied by corporation and elites for their benefit, this is not a neutral system that we are living in now, to think that the economy is not alrealy intervined is a delusion, it is, but for the favor of the ones that have the capacity of doing it, surprise, the rich ones, so they get richer. 

Republicans are not focused on economics, they are focused on elites. So are democrats, but they are obliged to implement some progressive policies here and there to maintain part of their base, which makes them a better option. Obama won with these promisses he didn't fulfill, Biden won't either if he wins, he's not promissing much either, it just happens that Trump is much worse than him from a progressive point of view. But this base is growing and they are going to demand more of those policies, which will be good for the economy for the reasons stated above.

Environmental issues are not that disconnected from society and economy either, it's just fair to ask the ones that produce dirt and harm to take care of it. Yeah, they are gonna earn less, and less tax money will be used to clean their messes or the environment will suffer less in the first place. I can live with that.

[RareGodzilla]

As a Canadian you profit from slightly better foreign policy. Trump will continue to pressure NATO members into increased military spending, considering the upcoming recession such investments are not in the interest of Canadian taxpayer.

It's funny how republicans claim to be pro small government and  small taxes. But really guys, Trump's law and order policy is going to be a huge burden on the taxpayer. 

[Mason Riggle]

Trump isn't even playing the same game.  If he were the head coach of a football team, his entire team would walk out onto the field, punch the referees in the face, beat up the other team, and declare victory, while his team's fans cheered from the stands, declaring, 'now that's how you play football'... and the minute anyone tried to point out that actual football has rules, they would complain that they are the ones being treated unfairly.