No Free Will

[FeelFree]

Does no free will mean that we are just like spectators in video game? That this body is like some character in that game and we are like a watchers?

[Frogfucius]

@FeelFree I mean, you can think of it any way you like. To me, it feels like we're in a simulation. One where it feels like we're in control and that we're special, but we're really not. A sick (but genius) move on the programmer's part.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Frogfucius

[Flicker_boy]

no spectator.

no free-will, absolute free-will, god's will its all the same.

doesn't really matter to think about it, keep practicing well.

Edited August 30, 2016 by InsidesOut

[Azrael]

1 hour ago, Frogfucius said:

A sick (but genius) move on the programmer's part.

Hahaha, well worded.

@FeelFree, I'd like you to see both parts of "there is no free will". On the one hand there is no separate you that makes decisions (although it feels like it). It's more like you and your environment are a network that interacts with itself. The environment acts and so you react. You act and so does the environment react.

On the other hand there is no determinism either. Even science will tell you that. We still have a kind of newtonian world-view that describes every happening as a result of prior actions. Science has long found out that if you go deep enough into matter, you cannot really predict how it's structured. It's more wavy, spontaneous and thereby unpredictable then most scientists would probably love to have it.

Now, if there is no free will and no determinism on the most fundamental level, what's left? What is left is a spontaneous happening that is self-aware. This self-awareness arises every few moments and then goes off. And so another comes.

Make a quick experiment with yourself here: Sit down and ask yourself: "Where do my decisions come from?" Wait and watch your thoughts. You'll soon see that the most decisions come up as hiccups and you have no control. Now, there are ones that we think we control. When there is the feeling of self while a decision comes up, we think that it's me that decided that. But is it really? Look again, it's more like an intermingled bunch of feelings and thoughts that makes up the me and a decision that comes up like a hiccup.

If you really begin to get this you'll soon see that every experience you have is a mystical one. Because the universe just decided you to do this and that. And it's never-ending fascinating where these decisions come from, where they go to and how the universe seems to do this manifestation in certain patterns. It's pretty intelligent if you look closely.

Anyway, hope that helps.  

[Leo Gura]

@FeelFree It's way more twisted than that. You created yourself and the entirety of reality, but still don't know it. There's no one else here but you. It's ALL you!

[isabel]

I don't understand. It means we are like characters in a video game, but also we are the programmer, and we are the game itself? But if it's true then did I create you or did you create me? And if we are both the same person...then what is a person? But then if it's all me, it means I have the ultimate free will, but then if it's all you then what is my free will?

I feel like there is an amazing understanding there, but I can't understand it.

[Dodo]

9 minutes ago, isabel said:

I don't understand. It means we are like characters in a video game, but also we are the programmer, and we are the game itself? But if it's true then did I create you or did you create me? And if we are both the same person...then what is a person? But then if it's all me, it means I have the ultimate free will, but then if it's all you then what is my free will?

I feel like there is an amazing understanding there, but I can't understand it.

Maybe you're thinking too much ?  Its annoying I know...

[123456789]

13 minutes ago, isabel said:

I don't understand. It means we are like characters in a video game, but also we are the programmer, and we are the game itself? But if it's true then did I create you or did you create me? And if we are both the same person...then what is a person? But then if it's all me, it means I have the ultimate free will, but then if it's all you then what is my free will?

I feel like there is an amazing understanding there, but I can't understand it.

You are a spectator with a strong sense of control. period.

[Dodo]

On 8/30/2016 at 6:14 PM, Azrael said:

Hahaha, well worded.

@FeelFree, I'd like you to see both parts of "there is no free will". On the one hand there is no separate you that makes decisions (although it feels like it). It's more like you and your environment are a network that interacts with itself. The environment acts and so you react. You act and so does the environment react.

On the other hand there is no determinism either. Even science will tell you that. We still have a kind of newtonian world-view that describes every happening as a result of prior actions. Science has long found out that if you go deep enough into matter, you cannot really predict how it's structured. It's more wavy, spontaneous and thereby unpredictable then most scientists would probably love to have it.

Now, if there is no free will and no determinism on the most fundamental level, what's left? What is left is a spontaneous happening that is self-aware. This self-awareness arises every few moments and then goes off. And so another comes.

Make a quick experiment with yourself here: Sit down and ask yourself: "Where do my decisions come from?" Wait and watch your thoughts. You'll soon see that the most decisions come up as hiccups and you have no control. Now, there are ones that we think we control. When there is the feeling of self while a decision comes up, we think that it's me that decided that. But is it really? Look again, it's more like an intermingled bunch of feelings and thoughts that makes up the me and a decision that comes up like a hiccup.

If you really begin to get this you'll soon see that every experience you have is a mystical one. Because the universe just decided you to do this and that. And it's never-ending fascinating where these decisions come from, where they go to and how the universe seems to do this manifestation in certain patterns. It's pretty intelligent if you look closely.

Anyway, hope that helps.  

Free will vs Determinism debates have always been weird for me... No free will doesn't imply determinism, it's like forgetting about randomness  and my  simple theory goes: God is randomness in every direction, and the randomness creates random shit and we are one of that shit that that ball of randomness created. Hurray for randomness!  

Randomness is pretty hard to produce tho, like even computers can't create real randomness. (If they could, maybe we start looking at real super-AI and that's another story - maybe we get obliterated then) So randomness is everywhere around us and we have no idea how it works. It's an explosion in every direction in every dimension, it's a happening without a cause, because what can be more random! Even the almighty infinity, i.e. god, is probably created by randomness. We create more randomness by every little random decision we do as the captains of our ship (be it ignorant captains) and probably that is something God, being randomness, likes, because we enhance him :D(whatever we choose to do, that's why he always laughin at us, we try to be mean but we always work in his favour! Maybe maybe, who cares tho! x) ) . And then the other God, the boss God, 0, nothingness, will claim us again and we will happen again! If the 1 says so! We just dancing between 0 and infinity, or 0 and 1 - in both those ranges exist infinite amount of numbers inbetween!!!!! OMG!!! One of them is us!

Then the gods 0 and 1 and 2 and infinity realize they r 1 god and heaven and hell, and you and me and everything else always exists and is part of this big ass axes (in all infinite dimensions) and then I realize I am rambling too much. And I then realize I do not care because the ppl in this thread say I have no free will so that means i can do whatever I want as the captain of my ship and they will be like he didnt do it! Dont blame the captain, he doesnt even exist. It's the ship that is doing everything on it's own, so why blame the captain. My ego goes unpunished. But don't worry, even the biggest ego doesn't exist if you look at it from the right angle!

PS: I am the ignorant captain, I am pointing the way to a machine that I do not understand fully (at all) and I try constantly to take credit for what the machine is doing. Will write a book I feel inspired - or will the ship write the book and me just standing there as the captain showing it the way?? When the captain thinks he is the ship, he can't escape from it if it starts sinking!!!!!! Woah that was sick metaphor lol

IMHO randomness stems from the mathematical fact that there are infinite amount of numbers between any 2 numbers, but we can pick and choose which numbers we see, or how far down we zoom and dare to dive into. Start imagining, in your mind going deeper and deeper, more and more numbers after the decimal point, and they keep on increasing and generating infinite amount of new numbers between each of the newly generated infinite amount of numbers - so tiny, but so many! Now think about the big numbers (maybe we are one of those big numbers, multiplications of infinities, growing, as all the other infinities that make us grow from the root stem). That's a hard task, generating all those numbers, isn't it. So The universe itself expands in every direction because at the smallest level, imaginary numbers are expanding as we speak. They can't stop, Change is always there, unless we stay on one number. at the deepest level, beyond what the scientist can see, I think we are expanding numbers, going infinitely deep. Creating infinite possibility. We are children of Mathematics! 

PS: Ego corner:

-trust me i've won math competitions

-trust me im a programmer x_x

-trust me im not crazy, i just wanted to splash on my keyboard, because of randomness.

TLDR: If you read it maybe you will think, oh, that's somewhat interesting if u think bout it - especially the last bit (IMHO), might explain the constant expansion of teh universe n shit.. Are we travelling between 0 and 1? Between Bajjilion and BajillionOne Between nothing and God?... I should stop myself man, before I write another page. ... I mean.... I should tell the crew to stop ship!

Edited August 31, 2016 by Dodoster

[isabel]

Quote

It's way more twisted than that. You created yourself and the entirety of reality, but still don't know it. There's no one else here but you. It's ALL you!

But that applies to all of us? 

Then what is individuality?

Something/someone has to have free will otherwise what would be the point? To create an entire universe where all the outcomes are already known, boring. Create a universe over which you have total control, with no interaction, no wonder, no suspense, why?

So who is it then, who has the free will?

 

[Guivs]

@isabel and what if there was no creator?

[isabel]

1 hour ago, Guivs said:

@isabel and what if there was no creator?

I don't know! lol but at some point we arose and our beliefs and our actions definitely create the reality that each of us lives in...we are creating our own worlds but to what extent...

 

 

[Prabhaker]

@FeelFree With matter, no freedom is possible. Matter means that which cannot be free. It must flow in the chain of cause and effect. Once someone has achieved consciousness, enlightenment, he is completely out of the realm of cause and effect.

Whatever is physical in you, material, whatever is mental, is predetermined. But something in you constantly remains undetermined, unpredictable. That something is your consciousness.

[Kserkkj]

 

[FeelFree]

I've read all those comments and now I don't get it at all. What's interesting is that yesterday I was playing the guitar and after a while I was like "Shit, I don't control my fingers, they are just playing it on their own without my control over them.". So am I just a spectator or what?

[cirkussmile]

Almost everything you do is because of your unconscious mind. The ego just commenting everything you do to make sense of it. It's all habits