How to get through to orange/materialists?

[Jake777]

As a fan hovering everywhere from green to turquoise, I can follow most of the things Leo says. 

But what about the references, proof, context, reason that my stage orange peers require? 

Obviously I should not mention Leo and his work untill they are stage green.

Because I KNOW that stage orange/materialism maximialist just cant into LEO. And it sucks, but he is speaking another language to them. 

Should Leo change his approach? 

Or rather, how does one help speed up their development, on a global scale? Because you just cant say the things leo says to orange. Yet it could take tens and tens of generations and thousands of years for them to catch up. That may be too late.  Kaboom.

[JosephKnecht]

1 hour ago, Jake777 said:

Should Leo change his approach? 

No. Just send them to Jordan Peterson. 

[ivory]

@Jake777 Why would you want to push your ideas onto others. People learn and grow on life's terms.

[Carl-Richard]

7 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

No. Just send them to Jordan Peterson. 

I'll vouch for that suggestion.

[DocWatts]

If you yourself spent a significant amount of time in Orange, one thing that might help is to try to think back to how you would frame the issue you're trying to convey in terms that you yourself could have understood when you were at thay stage of development.

[Leo Gura]

Some teachings are simply above a mule's level of comprehension.

If a materialist was openminded and interested in truth, he wouldn't be a materialist.

The catch-22 isn't a bug, it's a feature.

[Michal__]

If you are sometimes turquoise your presence alone will speed their progress up a bit.

Maybe tell them that meditation will help them with business, which is true. If they meditate they'll reach upper stages faster.

[eggopm3]

Yeah this is the reason I find it difficult to recommend Leo to other people. I know that they will not understand. Frankly, it's Leo's dedication to not dumbing down his content and to reaching for the deepest possible insights that make his work valuable, and I don't think he should change that approach. But that simultaneously makes the videos very inaccessible, and perhaps even offputting, for new people. so perhaps there is a role for others who can frame things in a way that can help those at lower levels start to see what he's getting at. 

[DocWatts]

This is just based off from my own experience, but maybe start off by trying to get them to consider that Materialism is in fact a paradigm. 

Understand what triggers Orange (supernatural beliefs and superstition, New Age woo-woo), and use the tools that Orange is comfortable with (science, logic, rationality) to get them to take a meta-perspective to thier worldview. Couch your discussion in language they can understand, basically.

If they're heavily science oriented, you could perhaps make a clear distinction between Materialist Reductionism and a broader view of Science. Quantum mechanics, relativity theory, or the cognitive science of consciousness could be used as jumping off points to explore the idea that there are other aspects that of reality that fall outside of Materialism.  If you're going to go this route, I'd recommend that you choose a discipline that you have a fairly solid grasp of, at least conceptually.

If they're in to philosophy, I'd highly recommend the works of Thomas Nagel, who goes in to some depth about deconstructing the Materialist paradigm in a way that's difficult to misconstrue as religious or woo-woo (Nagel himself is an atheist).

 

[andyjohnsonman]

On 29/10/2020 at 11:56 PM, ivory said:

@Jake777 Why would you want to push your ideas onto others. People learn and grow on life's terms.

This is solid advice

[Origins]

For me you don't try to get through to anyone. Sure there's persuasion, but that's it. It's either happening or not happening. Spend time in the happening, you'll be happier for it as well, spending too much time on persuasion even if you're effective, like a politician, a part of you will die.

Don't put what works in the world, which is a lot, in prison in order to spend time trying to break things out of prison that you'll never likely win any appeals on in court and even if you do, maybe only a little parole, slightly shorter sentence, but there's always that permanent record underneath the surface of what you're interacting with because it never came along by itself without any persuasion whatsoever.