The problem with radical open-mindedness

[Inliytened1]

41 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Pain is the result of damage to the body or mind, and cannot usually be avoided.

Suffering is self-inflicted damage from being unwilling to accept the isness of the Now. It's only necessary until you realize that it is unnecessary.

Indeed - Suffering is selfishness - the lack of a self is Infinite Love.  Infinity.  Pain is but a symptom of selfishness, of the finite.

[Moksha]

@Inliytened1 People think that selflessness is sacrificing yourself for someone else. That's too limited in scope. Selflessness is sacrificing your self for the Self. I suppose that makes it a Selfish act

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Moksha said:

@Inliytened1 People think that selflessness is sacrificing yourself for someone else. That's too limited in scope. Selflessness is sacrificing your self for the Self. I suppose that makes it a Selfish act

? ironically the former can bring one closer to Truth.  While the latter could seem like selfishness in disguise

 

[Moksha]

@Inliytened1 ? Every act of the Self is Selfish, which is to say, it is Love. The Self loves the Self because it is the Self.

[Inliytened1]

6 hours ago, Moksha said:

@Inliytened1 ? Every act of the Self is Selfish, which is to say, it is Love. The Self loves the Self because it is the Self.

Toss some paradox my way will ya

Yeah of course.  Because it Is itself.  You ARE Yourself and Oneness will always be paradoxical.

But relatively speaking one can only become less selfish by putting "others" first.  In the dream.   If it straight goes for sacrificing itself for the Self that is not true selflessness.  That's ego because the Self is but a belief in its finite mind

 

[Moksha]

By putting others first, you are only putting yourself first. Because you are all that there is. Sacrificing the self is nothing more than the Self tossing away a dream toy. It's not something the self does; it is a sacrificial act of the Self. If the self thinks it is doing it, that is the ego in its victory pose

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

 

Pain! Consciousness can experience pain and that is called suffering! 

What about preferences?

It's been conditioned to prefer the good over the bad, happiness over the sadness, love over the hate, knowing over the unknown.

"The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent everything becomes clear and undisguised. Make the smallest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. If you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against. The struggle of what one likes and what one dislikes is the disease of the mind".

-- Sengstan, Hsin Hsin Ming

 

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Moksha said:

By putting others first, you are only putting yourself first. Because you are all that there is. Sacrificing the self is nothing more than the Self tossing away a dream toy. It's not something the self does; it is a sacrificial act of the Self. If the self thinks it is doing it, that is the ego in its victory pose

 

[Inliytened1]

17 minutes ago, Moksha said:

 Sacrificing the self is nothing more than the Self tossing away a dream toy. It's not something the self does; it is a sacrificial act of the Self.

 

 

One thing to clarify - it is not God tossing itself away.  God becomes itself.  So it does not toss that which was in the illusion away.  It has become conscious of itself and realizes that it is Infinity.

[Moksha]

50 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

One thing to clarify - it is not God tossing itself away.  God becomes itself.  So it does not toss that which was in the illusion away.  It has become conscious of itself and realizes that it is Infinity.

By dream toy, I was referring to the plaything in the world of form. Everything in the world of form is the imagination of Brahmin. When Brahmin is playing, Atman is the essence of Brahmin in the plaything. The form itself, aside from Atman, is just a plaything. It is an illusion. When Atman awakens, it realizes itself, which is Brahmin. Whew

Edited October 30, 2020 by Moksha

[Inliytened1]

26 minutes ago, Moksha said:

By dream toy, I was referring to the plaything in the world of form. Everything in the world of form is the imagination of Brahmin. When Brahmin is playing, Atman is the essence of Brahmin in the plaything. The form itself, aside from Atman, is just a plaything. It is an illusion. When Atman awakens, it realizes itself, which is Brahmin. Whew

The ancients had it right all along - how did we get so far away from Truth?

 

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

The ancients had it right all along - how did we get so far away from Truth?

We thought our way out of it 

[Someone here]

12 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

What about preferences?

It's been conditioned to prefer the good over the bad, happiness over the sadness, love over the hate, knowing over the unknown.

I don't think those preferences (you might call them instincts) are just a product of conditioning from society. Part of it is genetic or "by design" you might say. If a human being grows up in a forest by himself without any social conditioning.. I think he would naturally have likes and dislikes based on his experience. Those likes and dislikes are what keeps you alive essentially. How could you survive if you no longer prefer food over death?. 

 

12 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent everything becomes clear and undisguised. Make the smallest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. If you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against. The struggle of what one likes and what one dislikes is the disease of the mind".

Is that realistic? Is it possible? 

[Nahm]

@Someone here

If you like you can experience the aura & chakras directly and have a better understanding of what the thought body points to. It does take some open mindedness, but is most worthwhile imo. 

[Moksha]

@Someone here You're right that the physical body itself is part of the conditioning. It is biologically programmed to have attachments. Otherwise, how would it survive?

The point is that we don't have to identify with the conditioning of the body or of the mind. Consciousness is completely free from conditioning. It is the sun that dissolves the clouds that obscure you from yourself. Nobody is pure consciousness; when that happens you go poof. Enlightened people are present enough that most of their conditioning no longer defines or directs who they are.

I know you're not a Gita fan, but here are some pointers if you care:

Quote

No creature, whether born on earth or among the gods in heaven, is free from the conditioning of the three gunas.

Quote

Even as a tortoise draws in its limbs, the wise draw in their senses at will…Even of those who tread the path, the stormy senses can sweep off the mind. They live in wisdom who subdue their senses and keep their minds ever absorbed in me.

Quote

The awakened sages call a person wise when all his undertakings are free from anxiety about results; all his selfish desires have been consumed in the fire of knowledge…Their security is unaffected by the results of their action; even while acting, they really do nothing at all.

How do you do it? Another pointer:

Quote

Still your mind in me, still your intellect in me, and without doubt you will be united with me forever. If you cannot still your mind in me, learn to do so through the regular practice of meditation. If you lack the will for such self-discipline, engage yourself in my work, for selfless service can lead you at last to complete fulfillment. If you are unable to do even this, surrender yourself to me, disciplining yourself and renouncing the results of all your actions. Better indeed is knowledge than mechanical practice. Better than knowledge is meditation. But better still is surrender of attachment to results, because there follows immediate peace.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Moksha

[VeganAwake]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

I don't think those preferences (you might call them instincts) are just a product of conditioning from society. Part of it is genetic or "by design" you might say. If a human being grows up in a forest by himself without any social conditioning.. I think he would naturally have likes and dislikes based on his experience. Those likes and dislikes are what keeps you alive essentially. How could you survive if you no longer prefer food over death?. 

Is that realistic? Is it possible? 

True, yeah conditioning can come from anything...for example someone growing up in the woods who's camp had been attacked numerous times by a bear, might grow to truly dislike bears. 

It's very subtle and obviously there can be more convenient situations than others. It's just the end of needing outcomes to be a certain way for peace of mind.

❤

[Someone here]

21 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's very subtle and obviously there can be more convenient situations than others. It's just the end of needing outcomes to be a certain way for peace of mind.

I get you. It's sort of like an ideal that you work towards. You never achieve it fully but you let go more and more. ?

[Moksha]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

I get you. It's sort of like an ideal that you work towards. You never achieve it fully but you let go more and more. ?

Sort of, except it isn't work and there is no achievement. It is the dance of dissolving into yourself.

[VeganAwake]

13 hours ago, Someone here said:

I get you. It's sort of like an ideal that you work towards. You never achieve it fully but you let go more and more. ?

It's like having your plan for life being exactly whatever happens ?

 

[JayySur]