The problem with radical open-mindedness

[Gesundheit]

10 minutes ago, Shin said:

In my experience the only way to not fear something is to go through the fear and do exactly what you fear.

If you have any other way to hack that, good, but imo you're fooling yourself.

You're talking as if fear is something objective that exists out in the world like a gate or something that I should go through, but it's not like that. Fear is all about your inner psyche and how you project it out onto the world. That's why not everyone fears the same things. So it's a completely subjective experience that has everything to do with you. And yes, there is another way to not fear things, it's called awareness. If you have consistent high levels of awareness, there will be no fear. Because fear is a lie that you tell yourself and believe. If you are aware enough to see the lies, they will have no power over you. And that applies to attachment as well because attachment is the other side of the coin of fear.

[Gesundheit]

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Good. What about fear? 

What about it?

3 minutes ago, Nahm said:

This is from over exposure to solipsism. No offense, in either & any case, obviously. 

Go see. Too much thinking makes for paranoia and psychosis. 

Way too over my head, like always.

[VeganAwake]

30 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Idk dude just plain sensations of pain in the body. You seem to suggest that the sensations themselves are not suffering but rather labeling them as such is.  But I don't think it's up to you. 

Haha yes it wasn't specified psychological or physical suffering.

Not just labeling but Identification.

Physical pain occurs in the body and is identified with as 'my' pain leading to possible psychological suffering on top of the feeling of localized pain.

So suffering typically stems from identification with conditioned thoughts(my thoughts) and localized pain in the body(my pain)

 

 

[Nahm]

@Gesundheit

Cause you don’t have one. 

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

What about it?

Can you locate it? 

[Gesundheit]

Just now, Someone here said:

Can you locate it? 

I can't locate it, but so what? It still exists regardless.

[Someone here]

15 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

 

So suffering typically stems from identification with conditioned thoughts(my thoughts) and localized pain in the body(my pain)

 

 

Yeah so it's real as far as that identification is concerned? 

[Shin]

20 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I can't locate it, but so what? It still exists regardless.

What if that fear is exactly what would make you more conscious ?

[Gesundheit]

51 minutes ago, Shin said:

What if that fear is exactly what would make you more conscious ?

Look, I'm not currently in a state of fear. But when shit hits the fan, I will most probably feel fear. My explanation for that is that it's a way for the ego-mind to preserve itself. So, if that's the case, the ultimate solution would be to get rid of the ego-mind.

What I'm saying is that it's not about current fears, because there's none. It's about future fears that overwhelm me and get me by surprise. And don't tell me oh just be present in the moment or you're imagining the future because I know all that and it doesn't help when shit hits the fan. When bad things happen, all conditioning will come back and all knee-jerk reactions will kick in, and fear is the most fundamental part of all that. If I remove everything else, fear will remain. But if I remove fear, everything else will go with it.

[Shin]

3 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Look, I'm not currently in a state of fear. But when shit hits the fan, I will most probably feel fear. My explanation for that is that it's a way for the ego-mind to preserve itself. So, if that's the case, the ultimate solution would be to get rid of the ego-mind.

What I'm saying is that it's not about current fears, because there's none. It's about future fears that overwhelm me and get me by surprise. And don't tell me oh just be present in the moment or you're imagining the future because I know all that and it doesn't help when shit hits the fan. When bad things happen, all conditioning will come back and all knee-jerk reactions will kick in, and fear is the most fundamental part of all that. If I remove everything else, fear will remain. But if I remove fear, everything else will go with it.

See the problem here ?

[Gesundheit]

1 minute ago, Shin said:

See the problem here ?

No, not really. What problem?

[Moksha]

12 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

It's not even that. It's forgetting that you are or have ever been a human. It's the demolition of every last bit of the constructed self until there's nothing left. No beliefs and no thoughts. Just 100% complete total absolute being with no devils behind the scenes disturbing that flow.

Yep, complete disintegration of the self. It's cool that we can experience ourSelves even in the human form, just not fully. Enlightened people come pretty close, but even they have gunas attaching them to the world of form. Total enlightenment means going poof back into the light that you always are.

[Moksha]

12 hours ago, Member said:

The human ego is also a belief. I was talking about the eternal Self. The ego' story is that death is final and this is just a ride into nothingness. Have you ever experienced death to know that you won't come back to life in another form? We forget many things in this life, so the reincarnation theory seems plausible to me. Yes, it is one of the explanations and you can call it a belief but it is better than "death is the end".

Whether it feels better or not has nothing to do with whether it is. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. The only truth is the light that we are; everything else is just a story.

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

I can't locate it, but so what? It still exists regardless.

What is your biggest fear? 

[Moksha]

11 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

With that being said, it's usually(99.9999%) misunderstood... and ego is very cunning and can sneak in the back door and take hold of this recognition quicker than slime on a snail.

So true.

[Moksha]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

This is from over exposure to solipsism. No offense, in either & any case, obviously. 

Go see. Too much thinking makes for paranoia and psychosis. 

It's so simple, isn't it? Concepts are only a distraction. Just be.

[Moksha]

2 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Way too over my head, like always.

You are pointing at yourself, right now. Do you see? Waking up is literally going over your head, because concepts are all the ego is. You can still use the mind, but you aren't the mind. Ego is nothing more than identification with the mind. When you let that identification go, you are free.

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Yeah so it's real as far as that identification is concerned? 

It's real and unreal.

Real in the sense that its experienced that a separate individual suffers.

Unreal in the sense that the suffer isn't actually there. So its actually a misidentification with thinking and bodily senses.

[Gesundheit]

45 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What is your biggest fear? 

The fear of fear.

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

Total enlightenment means going poof back into the light that you always are.

Or going insane.

39 minutes ago, Moksha said:

It's so simple, isn't it? Concepts are only a distraction. Just be.

You can't "just be" when your ego-mind/identity is threatened. It will not let you be. It will cause you all kinds of disturbances to distract you from "just being". Because otherwise, it will die. But that's the last thing you want.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Gesundheit