The problem with radical open-mindedness

[Moksha]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

well, could be. Complete surrender to what is ,is in some way is the end of suffering or at least acceptance. Surrender has to make possible the necessary opening for what I consider to be enlightenment, opening the way to the light of truth, which will happen when all resistance ends, and the end of resistance seems to be the end of suffering. .difficult. I resist, I avoid the bad and I look for the good, and I don't see how I could stop doing this. I'm going to figth forever I'm afraid. I just had that realization

Spot on. The question is: Have you suffered enough yet to be willing to let go of the lies of your ego? It's not a choice, really. You just reach the point where you are really, really, really done with suffering. Then you become a little more enlightened and return to suffering again, though not as badly as before

[Gesundheit]

@Shin You're trying to be clever and shortcut your way there, but it doesn't work like that. I've tried that many times and it didn't work. I let go of everything I could, but then something "bad" happens and fear kicks in once again. I don't want to experience fear. Enlightenment should eradicate all fear. Once you're there, I will listen to you. Right now you're bullshitting yourself and others.

@mandyjw It could mean talking like a dolphin. That's not my concern. All I know is that I am full of fears and you're full of fears, and that all of this nice ways of talking about enlightenment are BS that would break at the first challenge.

[The0Self]

I can say without a doubt there is no problem with open mindedness. What you can’t accept is that you being born out of a chicken’s egg is as valid as, well, anything else. And “you” never will. “I” never did. It didn’t matter in the end. Infinity is beyond comprehension, literally and obviously.

More truth, but not really more, since there’s only all-the-truth already: comprehension is infinity.

Edited October 30, 2020 by The0Self

[Gesundheit]

10 hours ago, Moksha said:

Agree 100%. Enlightenment isn't just realizing who you are, it is integrating who you are with the human form. Or put another way it is disintegrating the human form.

It's not even that. It's forgetting that you are or have ever been a human. It's the demolition of every last bit of the constructed self until there's nothing left. No beliefs and no thoughts. Just 100% complete total absolute being with no devils behind the scenes disturbing that flow.

[Member]

6 hours ago, Moksha said:

Reincarnation is a belief.

The human ego is also a belief. I was talking about the eternal Self. The ego' story is that death is final and this is just a ride into nothingness. Have you ever experienced death to know that you won't come back to life in another form? We forget many things in this life, so the reincarnation theory seems plausible to me. Yes, it is one of the explanations and you can call it a belief but it is better than "death is the end".

[The0Self]

19 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

It's not even that. It's forgetting that you are or have ever been a human. It's the demolition of every last bit of the constructed self until there's nothing left. No beliefs and no thoughts. Just 100% complete total absolute being with no devils behind the scenes disturbing that flow.

Something interesting is happening over there. I can recognize what you say somehow. Same thing happened to me, but it’s like “I” was cut out of the picture before the dream was even over. I’m sure many would call this “enlightenment.” There is still sometimes pain and even what I guess could be described as suffering (barely), but it doesn’t matter. There are still thoughts here though. What do you mean there are no thoughts? I’m suddenly interested.

Edited October 30, 2020 by The0Self

[VeganAwake]

These last 2 posts are classic examples of the importance of being able to empty the glass and unknow.

Saying Awakening or Enlightenment should be one way or the other prior to it actually occurring is like telling your teacher which grade to give you prior to taking the test.

Good luck and let us know how that works ?

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

These last 2 posts are classic examples of the importance of being able to empty the glass and unknow.

Saying Awakening or Enlightenment should be one way or the other prior to it actually occurring is like telling your teacher which grade to give you prior to taking the test.

Good luck and let us know how that works ?

I’m interested in you too. There’s no suffering here, btw. At least none that means anything at all. Real talk. I guess you could call it personal enlightenment. But what would you say this (my character) knows? I don’t recognize my self as enlightened, because there is no self.

[VeganAwake]

19 minutes ago, The0Self said:

I’m interested in you too. There’s no suffering here, btw. At least none that means anything at all. Real talk. I guess you could call it personal enlightenment. But what would you say this (my character) knows? I don’t recognize my self as enlightened, because there is no self.

Concerning Liberation, nothing matters is the highest recognition period. It takes the wind out of the sail, blows the ship out of the water and chops the legs off of every other possible concept that could be identified with.

With that being said, it's usually(99.9999%) misunderstood... and ego is very cunning and can sneak in the back door and take hold of this recognition quicker than slime on a snail. 

The thing is, Liberation can be pointed to all day long.... but it must be recognized/seen there plain and simple.

Look and See(not with the intellect)

Who could suffer?

Where would the suffering take place?

Who or What is suffering?

❤

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The0Self]

8 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Concerning Liberation, nothing matters is the highest recognition period. It takes the wind out of the sail, blows the ship out of the water and chops the legs off of every other possible concept that could be identified with.

With that being said, it's usually(99.9999%) misunderstood... and ego is very cunning and can sneak in the back door and take hold of this recognition quicker than slime on a snail. 

The thing is, Liberation can be pointed to all day long.... but it must be recognized/seen there plain and simple.

Look and See(not with the intellect)

Who could suffer?

Where would the suffering take place?

Who or What is suffering?

❤

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it’s conceivable an ego got ahold of some message but it isn’t believed here to be my ego. “We (dream characters) are the products of the dream state of the larger self. There’s no self though...“ used to be a basic summary of my understanding (plus all the bells and whistles, jhanas, etc) but it was all just very nice dream stuff. Now there’s just free fall. Don’t know what to make of it.

[VeganAwake]

19 minutes ago, The0Self said:

 Don’t know what to make of it.

Yes exactly there's nothing To make of it...❤

Whether you get caught up in the play of life or not doesn't matter at all.... Because it's a play/dream.

When death occurs, all the good the bad and the ugly disappear just as when you wake up from a dream at night.

So might as well enjoy the dream while it lasts or not either way it doesn't matter.

And if there is a higher source dreaming the dream.... that also doesn't matter because it's a dream ?

 

 

[Origins]

@Someone here Just do things that leverage plasticity in the positive direction and you'll have an easier time being open minded. Be careful about putting 7 billion minds into one un-open minded box, given there's those that would never even come up with the word open minded and there's those that would put the people who came up with it to the stake.

[Member]

4 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Yes exactly there's nothing To make of it...❤

Whether you get caught up in the play of life or not doesn't matter at all.... Because it's a play/dream.

When death occurs, all the good the bad and the ugly disappear just as when you wake up from a dream at night.

So might as well enjoy the dream while it lasts or not either way it doesn't matter.

And if there is a higher source dreaming the dream.... that also doesn't matter because it's a dream ?

^^^ Spiritual nihilism.

[Someone here]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course you can. Your direct experience is limited. It can expand. Hence you should be open to that.

Don't you believe direct experience is all that exists and nothing is outside of it?  Is there something hidden that exists yet not accessible to my direct experience?  If so then direct experience is not the whole shebang. 

[Someone here]

5 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Look and See(not with the intellect)

Who could suffer?

Where would the suffering take place?

Who or What is suffering?

The body? 

[Gesundheit]

@The0Self Well, honestly, I myself still don't have enough clarity on that. And I'm not sure I want enlightenment anymore, but it seems inevitable nonetheless. What I meant by no thoughts is actually more about surrender/no-resistance/fearlessness than it's about the thoughts themselves. I suppose if one can maintain certain levels of awareness all the time, fear should disappear forever. Then again, why isn't this the case already? Why do we experience fear? And why is it so hard to transcend? Even for people like Sadhguru who are supposed to be enlightened, I guess they won't be able to pass this test. If you just change a few things about their lifestyle they will probably return back to ego and fear. So I'm not sure enlightenment is a realistic goal anymore. Or if it is, then there's no coming back to the human world. It seems like literal insanity and loss of mind.

[Someone here]

7 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

You're trying to be clever and shortcut your way there, but it doesn't work like that. I've tried that many times and it didn't work. I let go of everything I could, but then something "bad" happens and fear kicks in once again. I don't want to experience fear. Enlightenment should eradicate all fear. Once you're there, I will listen to you. Right now you're bullshitting yourself and others.

This is a fairy tale. Enlightenment doesn't mean you will become a superman. Ramana maharshi died from cancer. It just means you are absolutely clear about the true nature of yourself and reality. 

[Gesundheit]

@Someone here Not superman, just unaffected by anything. Invincible.

[Someone here]

Just now, Gesundheit said:

@Someone here Not superman, just unaffected by anything. Invincible.

Well if you want that then go die.. Completely let go of this meat suit and Dissolve back into infinity. Don't be so attached to this body and then complain about fear. The body is fear. At best just a house of diseases.. Needs and cravings.. And at the end just a food for bugs. 

[Gesundheit]

@Someone here

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Well if you want that then go die.. Completely let go of this meat suit and Dissolve back into infinity.

Can you guarantee me the reward I want?

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Don't be so attached to this body and then complain about fear. The body is fear. At best just a house of diseases.. Needs and cravings.. And at the end just a food for bugs. 

Nice story you spinned there, but only if the whole fear and attachment thing was up to me.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Gesundheit