Argue that I'm not the "I-thought/ego"

[Cammy]

I've been reading about the "I thought" in my book and want to believe it however I don't want to follow so easily and believe it like being victim of brain washing. 

I'm looking about my room. I truly belive I am the physical body and my thoughts come from my brain. I live in the materialistic paradigm.

I welcome you to argue that I'm not the physical body and help me break it down!!!

[Mvrs]

26 minutes ago, Cammy said:

I've been reading about the "I thought" in my book and want to believe it however I don't want to follow so easily and believe it like being victim of brain washing. 

I'm looking about my room. I truly belive I am the physical body and my thoughts come from my brain. I live in the materialistic paradigm.

I welcome you to argue that I'm not the physical body and help me break it down!!!

When your in a dream are you actually a real body? Or are you pretending your a body while really you generate the entire dream world . This dream world you generate is held no where in nothing with nothing but appearances. This is the same thing happening right now. Your body is made up of more living organisms than you have human cells, your human cells replace themselves completely every 7 years so that should prove to you instantly your not your body. You are identified with an imaginary body the same as a dream but In the same way as a dream you are the entire thing not just your body. It’s all one piece the only way you could say where the ground ends and your feet start is by imagining a fake boundary between them. No boundaries are real they are all imaginary. It’s super simple when you realize it. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Mvrs

[Cammy]

@Mvrs In this dream state i still have some sense of this physical body with feelings, consciousness, thoughts. It seems awful constant!!

[Seraphim]

I will answer to see what my understanding is: If a human thinks he is a human, he is right, it's a natural silent knowing. However, if a thought appears in the mind of this human that begins to pretend that it is the human, then a duality is created. Before, the human would feel connected with everything else, but after the arising of this thought the human would feel that he is only a human and everything else is other. The I-thought is like a spider web of thoughts, identity, concepts etc that keeps the human from seeing/feeling clearly. It's not that you are supposed to lose all identity and think that you are nothing, just look beyond the spider web with inner silence and you may eventually see the truth, your natural identity as a human is an impersonal thing appearing in awareness.

 

[Leo Gura]

@Cammy Stop wasting time and just take a psychedelic. You'll see it in 30 mins.

[Dryas]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Cammy Stop wasting time and just take a psychedelic. You'll see it in 30 mins.

How much time should one spend studying the theory of enlightenment and awakening?

[The0Self]

Everyone is so closer than close to having their ego costume (reality confuser) not be there, there's practically no difference to having it "on or off," and yet the apparent difference is also the absolute, and it cannot be taken off by an act of will. Psychedelics can help you realize this but the chances of it blowing this wide open are completely unknown, and the abidance of the resulting state is even more elusive.

Italicized portion not 100 percent out of the dream/story, just no other way to say it in a remotely sensible way.

And "chances" really doesn't mean much either, since everything not happening is as equally as likely as anything to not happen.

Edited October 29, 2020 by The0Self

[Mvrs]

4 minutes ago, Dryas said:

How much time should one spend studying the theory of enlightenment and awakening?

In a sense 0 time would be best if you just realized what’s going on and that you already knew the whole time , howver forever will do .

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Dryas said:

How much time should one spend studying the theory of enlightenment and awakening?

1000+ hours.

If you want to avoid all the traps.

But of course the studying itself will become a trap. So know when enough is enough.

Most awakened people lack the proper study, thus their awakenings are incomplete and limited.

[Girzo]

But it's a good point to take a psychedelic first and then study the theory, it makes so much more sense then.

[Frenk]

@Girzo or the opposite, so when you start tripping you can make sense of what is happening to you or at least prepare for it

[Girzo]

@Frenk For sure, study basics first, like listen to 40-50 hours of it, do yourself a crash-course on spirituality. Yet, only go deep and invest hundreds of hours after doing psychedelics. It will be a way more effective use of time.

[Jacobsrw]

10 hours ago, Cammy said:

I've been reading about the "I thought" in my book and want to believe it however I don't want to follow so easily and believe it like being victim of brain washing. 

I'm looking about my room. I truly belive I am the physical body and my thoughts come from my brain. I live in the materialistic paradigm.

I welcome you to argue that I'm not the physical body and help me break it down!!!

I admire your honesty. I can empathise with what you are saying here as I am often consumed into such notions when operating on autopilot. 

Consider this: 

In the absence of thought, what are you?

This is the fundamental question to explore, simply because the line of thought which claims “I am a physical body” is the same one that uses thought to assert such a conclusion. Thought literally reifies our sense of material existence.

Really sit for some time and observe your experience beyond merely thought. You will notice even the feelings and sensations that are assumed in the body are them self confirmed via the mind.

Contemplate what is there irrespective of thought and the assumption of a physical self begins to loosen, appearing less evident.

Integrate psychedelics and this will be significantly amplified.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[nistake]

You can be mindful of your thoughts, emotions, sensations. You can observe your body. You can observe your room and every object in it.

Who's the observer, then? If your answer is: "Of course it's me", then notice that this is just another "object" in your awareness. Keep going with this until it clicks.

[snowyowl]

** Alert this post is rather theoretical please bear with me ***

Materialism "The philosophical belief that nothing exists beyond what is physical."
Physical "Pertaining to the world as understood through the senses rather than the mind; tangible, concrete; having to do with the material world. "
- Wiktionary

I've basically come through a scientific materialist background too so this is an interesting inquiry. Ok, so effectively, materialism means that physical matter / energy is everything. This is still philosophical monism, with the word 'Matter' substituted for what others here like Leo call God, Being, Absolute Reality, Love etc. The important point is that materialism isn't a dualistic philosophy. You are just using a different label for the basic stuff, the suchness of existence. 

Does awareness, consciousness, the mind exist? If you say yes, then that must mean that matter is alive, conscious, aware, at least in the complex forms of animals. Where then is the cut-off between conscious and unconscious matter? If brains are just a collection of atoms then we're saying that atoms have come together to create art, science, society - the same atoms which exist anywhere else. If it's just the way the atoms are arranged which makes the difference, then either: there must be a small level of sensitivity or consciousness inherent in each single one; or, it's the structure rather than the content which creates consciousness (which doesn't really sound like materialism any more). 

IMO it's still very much worth a materialist doing spiritual practice, not to judge any ideas as right or wrong, but to simply be the universe contemplating itself, just like any other spiritual seeker. In that space of silent meditation, all these labels such as matter, mind, physical, consciousness, etc melt away and then what is left?  

[Mvrs]

51 minutes ago, snowyowl said:

** Alert this post is rather theoretical please bear with me ***

Materialism "The philosophical belief that nothing exists beyond what is physical."
Physical "Pertaining to the world as understood through the senses rather than the mind; tangible, concrete; having to do with the material world. "
- Wiktionary

I've basically come through a scientific materialist background too so this is an interesting inquiry. Ok, so effectively, materialism means that physical matter / energy is everything. This is still philosophical monism, with the word 'Matter' substituted for what others here like Leo call God, Being, Absolute Reality, Love etc. The important point is that materialism isn't a dualistic philosophy. You are just using a different label for the basic stuff, the suchness of existence. 

Does awareness, consciousness, the mind exist? If you say yes, then that must mean that matter is alive, conscious, aware, at least in the complex forms of animals. Where then is the cut-off between conscious and unconscious matter? If brains are just a collection of atoms then we're saying that atoms have come together to create art, science, society - the same atoms which exist anywhere else. If it's just the way the atoms are arranged which makes the difference, then either: there must be a small level of sensitivity or consciousness inherent in each single one; or, it's the structure rather than the content which creates consciousness (which doesn't really sound like materialism any more). 

IMO it's still very much worth a materialist doing spiritual practice, not to judge any ideas as right or wrong, but to simply be the universe contemplating itself, just like any other spiritual seeker. In that space of silent meditation, all these labels such as matter, mind, physical, consciousness, etc melt away and then what is left?  

Would you call the physical world inside of your dream actually material? Or does it seem material? Material objects by your definition could not exists. 

[snowyowl]

37 minutes ago, Mvrs said:

Would you call the physical world inside of your dream actually material? Or does it seem material? Material objects by your definition could not exists.

We can call it a physical world within the dream (idealism), or a dream inside the physical world (materialism). To me these are the same, just two sides of the same map. Actually there is neither dream nor matter, until we start to create ideas about it.  That's when the One becomes Two. 

[SoonHei]

It's not constant.

You are constant.

[The0Self]

12 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

It's not constant.

You are constant.

That’s a love story. And it’s the purpose of all this, for those that derive meaning from it. The purpose is different for others. “I” am willing to throw in on the love side. The other side is just as important though. There is no other side.

[SoonHei]

love embracing paradoxes

@The0Self