Years spent at each stage in spiral?

[RendHeaven]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

At 21, you've at most barely entered Yellow. It's one thing to able to absorb the material that Leo is presenting, but it's another thing to have a broad and rich silo of perspectives that reflect those principles, and that only comes with time. It's like the difference between a building made out of steel and a steel nail: they're made out of the same material, but they're not at all comparable in size, scale or complexity.

Haha, maybe you're right~

[Origins]

Growth really waits for no one, moreover its relative to the actual work and kind of work someone is doing within each stage [ although I don't subscribe to the related stage theory and believe something needs to be created that is from the context of the consciousness and any environment not just consciousness and this environment - that's an abstract point to think about for anyone serious ] , someone could be in the same stage for the rest of their life if their consciousness isn't integrating the contents of reality. Integration is one of the key things that lead to growth and for various reasons some are better at that than others. It's even possible someone could advance through all of the "stages" in one whole year, again it depends on capacity + tools.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Origins

[Origins]

Capacity in itself separate to the above is an extremely abstract point that most people don't think about enough, let alone understand adequately, our culture certainly doesn't.

Imagine if you were born physically disabled, how would that help you move up the spiral? 

Imagine if you were born mentally disabled, how would that help you move up the spiral?

But it goes deeper and is more nuanced than this. You'd need to meditate on the idea of capacity in the context of a human and consciousness growth for several hours (perhaps several months) before you really got the abstraction, its not as straight forward as the brain initially connects.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Origins

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Origins said:

Capacity in itself separate to the above is an extremely abstract point that most people don't think about enough, let alone understand adequately, our culture certainly doesn't.

Imagine if you were born physically disabled, how would that help you move up the spiral? 

Imagine if you were born mentally disabled, how would that help you move up the spiral?

But it goes deeper and is more nuanced than this. You'd need to meditate on the idea of capacity in the context of a human and consciousness growth for several hours (perhaps several months) before you really got the abstraction, its not as straight forward as the brain initially connects.

If I have to be completely honest, you didn't actually say anything.

[Origins]

@Carl-Richard Interesting, because you quoted a whole piece of text in which I emphasised the importance of a phenomenon in the context of development here. If you'd like me to further elaborate on the relationship between capacity and anything analogous to what spiral dynamics attempts to capture in relation to stage theory of consciousness just let me know  .

Edited October 29, 2020 by Origins

[Carl-Richard]

9 minutes ago, Origins said:

@Carl-Richard Interesting, because you quoted a whole piece of text in which I emphasised the importance of a phenomenon in the context of development here. If you'd like me to further elaborate on the relationship between capacity and anything analogous to what spiral dynamics attempts to capture in relation to stage theory of consciousness just let me know  .

But I'm seriously saying that you didn't say anything about what capacity means, or what you mean by integration, or the distinction between "this environment" and "any environment". I just didn't expect to read this amount of text without taking anything away from it.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Origins]

@Carl-Richard Well, if you're familiar with the general meaning of these terms that's when you're able to combine them into an abstraction of coherence, if not, we can define them together one at a time if you like. We can proceed cautiously and by the end, have a complete essay that is to the heights of at a bare minimum, your abstract capacities . When a man sees rain for the first time, he does not need to look at the rain and say, "you're not telling me anything useful here", in order to take something away from what the person is doing. My intuition is saying you don't have the patience to go into the depth we'd need to go to, but I'm down for it if you are, you'd be the first person in the history of my experience on the internet, so let's see how you go eh?

[Carl-Richard]

5 minutes ago, Origins said:

@Carl-Richard Well, if you're familiar with the general meaning of these terms that's when you're able to combine them into an abstraction of coherence, if not, we can define them together one at a time if you like.

Yes please give a concrete definition of these otherwise extremely relative terms.

 

5 minutes ago, Origins said:

My intuition is saying you don't have the patience to go into the depth we'd need to go to, but I'm down for it if you are, you'd be the first person in the history of my experience on the internet, so let's see how you go eh?

Something tells me that is not going to happen... but sure, I'm not going to stop you.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[RendHeaven]

@Origins Hey there, 

It'd be helpful if you'd rephrase your insight in layman's terms for us normies 

I have a feeling that what you've written is useful, but it's clouded in pretentious language.

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, RendHeaven said:

@Origins I have a feeling that what you've written is useful, but it's clouded in pretentious language.

Not only that, but I have a tiny suspicion that we might be talking about a very specific form of clouding here... 

[Origins]

@RendHeaven @Carl-Richard Sorry I'm terrible at taking things "down", it just takes more energy for me is all I'm sure you would understand.

Like if I'm to take on the effort of taking things down I wouldn't know where and what to focus on so I might just do it with everything or not scrub in the right place so it would mean I'd end up cleaning the wrong room in the house or not in the right way.

I don't at all mean to be coming across as pretentious, you're free to perceive me in which ever way you like though, pure freedom there, in saying that I'm more than willing to discuss those specific forms as you've stated Carl-Richard but it would be more constructive if that specificity was confined to talking about what part of what I said, very precisely, is something you'd like me to elaborate on and we can go from there.

It's all cool here, like I'm a very open minded person I'm not going to get angry at you or put you down or anything, I'll aim to be of service to the discussion where I can. I have no need to "be anything" in this conversation or "be perceived in anyway". Best

Edited October 29, 2020 by Origins

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, Origins said:

@RendHeaven @Carl-Richard Sorry I'm terrible at taking things "down", it just takes more energy for me is all I'm sure you would understand.

Like if I'm to take on the effort of taking things down I wouldn't know where and what to focus on so I might just do it with everything or not scrub in the right place so it would mean I'd end up cleaning the wrong room in the house or not in the right way.

I don't at all mean to be coming across as pretentious, you're free to perceive me in which ever way you like though, pure freedom there, in saying that I'm more than willing to discuss those specific forms as you've stated Carl-Richard but it would be more constructive if that specificity was confined to talking about what part of what I said, very precisely, is something you'd like me to elaborate on and we can go from there.

It's all cool here, like I'm a very open minded person I'm not going to get angry at you or put you down or anything, I'll aim to be of service to the discussion where I can. I have no need to "be anything" in this conversation or "be perceived in anyway". Best

How... am I that psychic??

[Origins]

@Carl-Richard If we could keep this to the discussion of the actual thread that'd be great, inclusive of my comments that you would like to address otherwise I will just ignore future correspondence out of practicality. Best

[ivory]

@Rilles @DocWatts @LeoX8 @Carl-Richard @RendHeaven @DocWatts @datamonster @Carl-Richard

Thanks for the honesty and sharing your wisdom. This was super helpful. When I first joined this forum I was in the middle of a stage orange crisis unable to see that I was being pushed into green. That was about two years ago. Thankfully, Leos videos put an end to my confusion and misdirection. On one hand, I can start to see some yellow shining through, on the other I can see that there's a lot of work to do. I've learned a couple of things so far. The transition isn't black and white. Your values and behaviors may reflect those of a certain stage but each stage requires a significant amount of changes and a radically different perspective. This can only take time. It's silly to be concerned with where you're at on the spiral, and to do so is to miss the point. No stage is better than the next and each stage has very important lessons to learn and embody. Graves said that there are no single-colored people, rather a kaleidoscopic blend of varying characteristics from each level. I resonate the most strongly with green, but I also recognize that I haven't embodied it fully. On a similar note, I'm not quite as assertive as someone in red or ambitious as someone in orange. So much to learn and integrate. Life is pretty cool, never a dull moment.

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, Origins said:

@Carl-Richard If we could keep this to the discussion of the actual thread that'd be great, inclusive of my comments that you would like to address otherwise I will just ignore future correspondence out of practicality. Best

But you're not saying anything!

[Origins]

@Carl-Richard Yes, as you've so expertly retorted continuously with the same statement as if to ironically not avoid the same mistake you claim I'm making. It isn't my fault the man I'm teaching to read a dictionary does not understand the words, nor even the word "nothing" which he continuously proclaims "says nothing". Thank you for introducing me to your splendid capability when it comes to genuinely trying to ask specific questions in order to understand what it is I was indeed attempting to say as I neatly relayed my words from somewhere close to the centre of my skull to my finger tips and onto this screen after clicking the submit reply button. Well done!

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Origins said:

@Carl-Richard Yes, as you've so expertly retorted continuously with the same statement as if to ironically not avoid the same mistake you claim I'm making. It isn't my fault the man I'm teaching to read a dictionary does not understand the words, nor even the word "nothing" which he continuously proclaims "says nothing". Thank you for introducing me to your splendid capability when it comes to genuinely trying to ask specific questions in order to understand what it is I was indeed attempting to say as I neatly relayed my words from somewhere close to the centre of my skull to my finger tips and onto this screen after clicking the submit reply button. Well done!

Witness the definition of structure without content. Are you actually going to give some definitions soon or are you just going to keep talking about doing it?

[Origins]

@Carl-Richard I'm just not dull enough to take your bait anymore. You shouldn't be allowed to taunt people nonsensically as you have been, why you'd bother wasting my time as you have is beyond me. I mean, go live your life man, do something fun and genuinely valuable rather than just negging people. If you have a genuine question point it to them directly, don't beat around the bush. It's totally weird.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Origins

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Origins said:

If you have a genuine question point it to them directly, don't beat around the bush. It's totally weird.

Have you totally lost the plot?:

12 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

But I'm seriously saying that you didn't say anything about what capacity means, or what you mean by integration, or the distinction between "this environment" and "any environment".

Please go ahead and define these terms. I shouldn't have to repeat myself like this.

[Origins]

@Carl-Richard You haven't earned my presence. Honestly. You may find that pretentious but I call that simple self respect. You're on my ignore/block list now. Hopefully that thing works.