Years spent at each stage in spiral?

[ivory]

@Leo Gura Just out of curiosity how long would you say serious seekers who make fairly consistent progress spend at each stage in the spiral before transitioning to the next? I really only care about the time one may spend at orange and green before moving on. What have you observed on this forum and what was your personal experience?

[Rilles]

3 minutes ago, ivory said:

@Leo Gura Just out of curiosity how long would you say serious seekers who make fairly consistent progress spend at each stage in the spiral before transitioning to the next? I really only care about the time one may spend at orange and green before moving on. What have you observed on this forum and what was your personal experience?

Probably about 10 years, but thats if youre lucky, some people stay stuck for life. Im interested in seeing what the others have to say though. I think if Im lucky I might touch the ass of Turquoise with a pointy stick in this lifetime, if I really reach. 

[LeoX8]

@ivory In my opinion it really depends on you. I know, dumb answer, but with spiral dynamics your step up by living through a certain stage, seeing the limits of it and really live them. Only then you can transcend that stage by certain needs that will be accostumed in the next stage. So it's a process of viewing where you are at (remember that you are not "formed" by a singular colour) and acting based on that. If you want to transcend orange what I suggest is to start reading books on the limits of that stage (example: something that talk about materialism's limits) and in parallel study green topics. Doing this for a while will help you for sure but you will also need the direct experience of life, so taking the previous example by seeing through your life why money and success won't bring you happiness just by chasing and obtaining them.

hope that this has helped<3

[Carl-Richard]

It depends where you are in life. Development naturally happens faster at a younger age, but when you're older you're able to streamline your development (like you're suggesting here). I'm not old enough to comment on anything outside the childhood/early-adulthood developmental aspects of SD, but for me I unlocked stages in steps of 3-5 years. I would emphasise the difference between "unlocking" and "maturing". I wouldn't consider myself fully mature in neither orange nor green. That might take another 10 years.

[Rilles]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I wouldn't consider myself fully mature in neither orange nor green. That might take another 10 years.

Thats a very important point, I find myself lacking in alot of Orange. Growth can be horizontal and vertical. But at the same time Im so tired of Orange limits, like waking up hungover or having shallow conversations. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Rilles

[Nthnl]

1 hour ago, Rilles said:

Probably about 10 years, but thats if youre lucky, some people stay stuck for life. Im interested in seeing what the others have to say though. I think if Im lucky I might touch the ass of Turquoise with a pointy stick in this lifetime, if I really reach. 

In the least narcissistic way, I feel I've gone much faster then that, although im much younger and probably more susceptible to change. I was very right wing when i was quite young. Then I had an awakening that shifted me fairly left wing, and after a bit I found myself at green for a good while. Now I feel im certainly in between green and yellow approaching full yellow more and more everyday.

[Rilles]

9 minutes ago, Nthnl said:

In the least narcissistic way, I feel I've gone much faster then that, although im much younger and probably more susceptible to change. I was very right wing when i was quite young. Then I had an awakening that shifted me fairly left wing, and after a bit I found myself at green for a good while. Now I feel im certainly in between green and yellow approaching full yellow more and more everyday.

Awakenings can skyrocket your growth, and if youre born in a first world country its even easier to grow, but also like I said, take into account horizontal development, theres really no rush, you want to have roots that go as far down as the branches that stretch out. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Rilles

[Nthnl]

1 minute ago, Rilles said:

Awakenings can skyrocket your growth, and if youre born in a post-modern country its even easier to grow, but also like I said, take into horizontal development, theres really no rush, you want to have roots that go as far down as the branches that stretch out. 

Yes I agree. I feel I've seen a lot of people have what I would call simulated growth. Where they kinda change their mindset a bit and then change their whole life style around it too soon in a way? They just jump all the way in that direction, then are unhappy and fall back into their old habits. Its important to take things slow.

[Rilles]

1 hour ago, Nthnl said:

Yes I agree. I feel I've seen a lot of people have what I would call simulated growth. Where they kinda change their mindset a bit and then change their whole life style around it too soon in a way?

Thats most likely going to lead backlash and regression, for example deciding to meditate 3 hours a day everyday when youre Orange/Green is probably not going to happen, you have to naturally grow into which might take a few years or decades even. 

They just jump all the way in that direction, then are unhappy and fall back into their old habits. Its important to take things slow.

Yeah. 

 

[DocWatts]

I would think that it would be much quicker than that to reach the Stage that's Center of Gravity for the culture you happen to be living in, and progressively longer for each Stage beyond that.

In America reaching a Blue / Orange level of development is basically the default, and where a majority of people will end up without putting any effort or work in. In our society it's also not too difficult to go beyond that and reach Green, and depending on how one is Socialized growing up it can be achieved relatively early in one's development (about a quarter of the US adult population is at Green).

Going beyond that is going to take much longer and take much more work on your part, since the Tier 2 stages aren't part of the cultural zietgeist at this present moment. 10 plus years to go from Green to Yellow doesn't sound at all unreasonable.

I could see someone being at Orange or Green in thier early twenties. No way is someone going to be a Yellow Systems Thinker at that age. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by DocWatts

[RendHeaven]

I was born and raised Orange until around age 17.

Around age 18, a lot of combined factors helped me see deep relativity in everything, and I shot straight up to Yellow.

At this point I knew that I was at Yellow because I finally saw all of the limitations of my previous Orange world view, I stopped demonizing Green and accepted that different people have different points of view, and most importantly began seeing the interconnectedness and relativity of all perspectives.

Leo's "SD Stage Yellow" video really spoke to my soul at that time. I didn't think much of the way I skimmed past Green since I knew in my heart that I had a general acceptance for its values.

Around age 19, my girlfriend at the time opened me up to a flood of blind spots that forced me to re-investigate Green:

- The way I would exude an embodied rationality (energetically) even though intellectually I denounced rationality.

- The way I would implicitly hold my wholistic perspective as superior despite telling myself that I was neutral.

- The way I saw female rights issues from the lens of a male, despite claiming to have an eagle-eye view.

- The way I saw animal rights issues from the lens of a human, despite claiming to have an eagle-eye view.

- The way I saw politics from a "centrist" perspective without realizing that being a "centrist" is biasing the current status-quo (which harms the underprivileged).

- The way that my modus operandi was to be understood by others as opposed to understanding others. For example, correcting people's opinions by constantly "going meta" on them was a way to pursue being understood without trying to understand.

- The way that I considered "energy," "spirit," and "love" to be supplementary conditions (as opposed to being of utmost importance).

Having turned 21, I've willingly become Green (as opposed to philosophizing about it as a bystander), and this has made my perspective even more meta.

I would consider myself fully-Yellow (Yellow to the point that its limitations are weighing on me) after 4 years of inner work, starting at stage Orange.

My next project is actually to deep-dive into Blue (hah, you thought I'd say Turquoise? ) in the same way that I did with Green.

Based on my story, I would say that realization of each stage will take at least a minimum of 1 whole year, with embodiment taking an additional +1 year.

I doubt that my case is representative of the average person: I've been blessed with a Yellow-ish intuition from a young age, and that has really helped guide me.

I imagine that a person who's entire identity is entrenched in Blue, Orange, or Green for decades will have to go through 5+ years of work before they expand.

Edited October 28, 2020 by RendHeaven

[DocWatts]

1 minute ago, RendHeaven said:

I was born and raised Orange until around age 17.

Around age 18, a lot of combined factors helped me see deep relativity in everything, and I shot straight up to Yellow.

At this point I knew that I was at Yellow because I finally saw all of the limitations of my previous Orange world view, I stopped demonizing Green and accepted that different people have different points of view, and most importantly began seeing the interconnectedness and relativity of all perspectives.

Leo's "SD Stage Yellow" video really spoke to my soul at that time. I didn't think much of the way I skimmed past Green since I knew in my heart that I had a general acceptance for its values.

Around age 19, my girlfriend at the time opened me up to a flood of blind spots that forced me to re-investigate Green:

- The way I would exude an embodied rationality (energetically) even though intellectually I would denounce it.

- The way I would implicitly hold my wholistic perspective as superior despite telling myself that I was neutral.

- The way I saw female rights issues from the lens of a male, despite claiming to have an eagle-eye view.

- The way I saw animal rights issues from the lens of a human, despite claiming to have an eagle-eye view.

- The way I saw politics from a "centrist" perspective without realizing that being a "centrist" is biasing the current status-quo (which harms the underprivileged).

- The way that my modus operandi was to be understood by others as opposed to understanding others. For example, correcting people's opinions by constantly "going meta" on them was a way to pursue being understood without trying to understand.

- The way that I considered "energy," "spirit," and "love" to be supplementary conditions (as opposed to being of utmost importance).

Having turned 21, I've willingly become Green (as opposed to philosophizing about it as a bystander), and this has made my perspective even more meta.

I would consider myself fully-Yellow (Yellow to the point that its limitations are weighing on me) after 4 years of inner work, starting at stage Orange.

My next project is actually to deep-dive into Blue (hah, you thought I'd say Turquoise? ) in the same way that I did with Green.

Based on my story, I would say that realization of each stage will take at least a minimum of 1 whole year, with embodiment taking an additional +1 year.

I doubt that my case is representative of the average person: I've been blessed with a Yellow-ish intuition from a young age, and that has really helped guide me.

I imagine that a person who's entire identity is entrenched in Blue, Orange, or Green for decades will have to go through 5+ years of work before they expand.

Hey, exceptions will exist to most generalizations I suppose. Your situation sounds fairly unique. I would venture that the vast majority of people in thier early 20s claiming to be Yellow Systems Thinkers are actually stage Orange.

[Applegarden]

This post in particular reminded me of how much we overthink about models like spiral dynamics to the point it is worth asking is it needed to think how much time have we spent in whatever stage? Do you even remember the past as it happened? How will you verify that your description and qualities matches the Claire Graves ones. Kinda seems like a negative/prejudiced question, but I think this question of why is it needed to think about is very powerful this time. One forum user wanted there to be a stage Pink after Coral and so on... I would rather advise, focus on your life's problems and how would you fix them. Trust me, you will thank yourself just SO MUCH.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Applegarden

[Carl-Richard]

49 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

I would consider myself fully-Yellow 

At 21, you've at most barely entered Yellow. It's one thing to able to absorb the material that Leo is presenting, but it's another thing to have a broad and rich silo of perspectives that reflect those principles, and that only comes with time. It's like the difference between a building made out of steel and a steel nail: they're made out of the same material, but they're not at all comparable in size, scale or complexity.

[DocWatts]

Also I think there's a huge difference between resonating with the ethos of a stage and actually embodying it.

As an example I can resonate with the Systems Thinking of Yellow while also not fully embodying and mastering it yet.

[Michal__]

Could be only a few years if you meditate 1+ hours a day, go on meditation retreats, do some psychadelics and read high quality books.

You get to the next stage by exhausting the previous one. For example - material success (becoming wealthy and getting loads of women) is a great way to transcend orange, you are almost guaranteed to see negative effect from over reaching, therefore you move to stage green.

Same with all the other stages. You just exhaust them. Consciousnesses work makes you more effective overall therefore exhausting each stage faster. (It is of course more complicated than just becoming more effective, but let's just stick to this)

[Carl-Richard]

10 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Also I think there's a huge difference between resonating with the ethos of a stage and actually embodying it.

As an example I can resonate with the Systems Thinking of Yellow while also not fully embodying and mastering it yet.

Yup. It's easy to watch one youtube video about it and patting yourself on the back for understanding the gist of it, but if you think that makes you on the same level as someone like Noam Chomsky, then your interpretation of SD becomes of very little substance.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

They usually say 5 years, but that assumes you're actively doing self-help work.

[Heart of Space]

19 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Also I think there's a huge difference between resonating with the ethos of a stage and actually embodying it.

Ding, ding, ding...  we have a winner.

[DocWatts]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Yup. It's easy to watch one youtube video about it and patting yourself on the back for understanding the gist of it, but if you think that makes you on the same level as someone like Noam Chomsky, then your interpretation of SD becomes of very little substance.

For sure. That's why I seriously question anyone who claims to be at a Tier-2 stage in their teens / early twenties, when you consider that Mastering something like Systems or Holistic Thinking not only takes a ton of time but also quite a bit of education and life experience. 

While I myself strongly resonate with Systems Thinking, I'm also honest enough with myself to realize that I'm probably several years away from mastering it to the point where it becomes second nature. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people who resonate with Yellow are in more of a transitional state between Green and Yellow (or mistaking Orange hyper-rationalism for Yellow Systems Thinking).