No matter what, I'll keep backsliding and escaping

[Nahm]

@4201

It sounds like thoughts arise which do not feel good, and you aren’t realizing you’re attaching / believing them, until you’re already believing the ‘bigger’ thought story. Blowing it out of proportion so to speak, life sized, my whole future, etc. Often, but not always, I find that is due to a self-belief. Something someone thinks is different about themself, and or their preferences, which they consider to be ‘wrong’ or ‘unfortunate’ or ‘unacceptable’. Such a belief is credited to the world, or ‘just how it is’. So there is a loop...bad feeling....(thought:) it’s just how it is’ / ‘it’s just how I am’....bad feeling....thought again...bad feeling....

Shorter term...

What I believe would most impact this is a cathartic experience. Something like a trip, talking with someone who can help you inspect what’s going on from a different perspective so you can experience some ah ha’s and releases, or if it’s applicable, forgiveness or yourself or another, or acceptance of something you have yet to accept, about yourself or another. 

Longer term...

In more of an ongoing day to day manor, I think Concentration (single pointedness) Meditation would be ideal. It makes it incredibly easier to let a thought in discord go, and also to have clarity around it. 

Anytime, 24/7, no matter what you’re doing, ‘dial into’ seeing, hearing, feeling, breathing. Put attention there. It by default removes attention from thought, making it easier to ‘see’ what’s going on, and be less attached to thought, and therefore the belief has some space to come up & out. 

What these all point to is the release of a blockage, a belief about yourself relating to life, which isn’t true. This of course is the challenge with beliefs. It can be very hard to spot because one already believes it’s true. 

44 minutes ago, 4201 said:

How do you get yourself to stop feeling bad when you don't see the bad perspective that makes the bad feeling?

We can more easier see what is in front of us, then in our thoughts. Writing about how you feel right now, in the moment, without going to a past or future in thinking, helps presence, and emotions to clear & release. 

44 minutes ago, 4201 said:

What if "what you want" when feeling bad is to escape? It may be silly but it was done, so it was wanted wasn't it?

If you feel bad, you are already focused on what you don’t want. Stop, and write. You’ll realize what it is from seeing the writing in front of you. It’s more 3rd person view, than inner world. 

[4201]

On 06/12/2020 at 7:49 PM, Nahm said:

@4201

It sounds like thoughts arise which do not feel good, and you aren’t realizing you’re attaching / believing them, until you’re already believing the ‘bigger’ thought story. Blowing it out of proportion so to speak, life sized, my whole future, etc. Often, but not always, I find that is due to a self-belief. Something someone thinks is different about themself, and or their preferences, which they consider to be ‘wrong’ or ‘unfortunate’ or ‘unacceptable’. Such a belief is credited to the world, or ‘just how it is’. So there is a loop...bad feeling....(thought:) it’s just how it is’ / ‘it’s just how I am’....bad feeling....thought again...bad feeling....

Shorter term...

What I believe would most impact this is a cathartic experience. Something like a trip, talking with someone who can help you inspect what’s going on from a different perspective so you can experience some ah ha’s and releases, or if it’s applicable, forgiveness or yourself or another, or acceptance of something you have yet to accept, about yourself or another. 

Longer term...

In more of an ongoing day to day manor, I think Concentration (single pointedness) Meditation would be ideal. It makes it incredibly easier to let a thought in discord go, and also to have clarity around it. 

Anytime, 24/7, no matter what you’re doing, ‘dial into’ seeing, hearing, feeling, breathing. Put attention there. It by default removes attention from thought, making it easier to ‘see’ what’s going on, and be less attached to thought, and therefore the belief has some space to come up & out. 

What these all point to is the release of a blockage, a belief about yourself relating to life, which isn’t true. This of course is the challenge with beliefs. It can be very hard to spot because one already believes it’s true. 

We can more easier see what is in front of us, then in our thoughts. Writing about how you feel right now, in the moment, without going to a past or future in thinking, helps presence, and emotions to clear & release. 

If you feel bad, you are already focused on what you don’t want. Stop, and write. You’ll realize what it is from seeing the writing in front of you. It’s more 3rd person view, than inner world. 

Now that I finally figured out what was "the big problem" at the time, I can look back and figure out what went wrong.

The problem was a belief in a "me that is stressed out by life circumstances", those life circumstances being "trying to launch my first business and having no guarantee it will work". I'm no longer stressed out by this idea because I no longer believe in a self that is stressed out by it and so I no longer act in an according way.

I tried many of the options you mentionned. First I took a tab of LSD (unlike the usual 3 tabs) and did a very meditation intensive trip (3-4 hours of sitting) to figure out what was wrong. You can call me stubborn, but even this didn't cut it. I ended up not feeling so bad, but I didn't "figure out" what was believed. This trip was a useful contemplation of pain, but I didn't figure out anything about where that pain was coming from.

I also tried talking about this topic to different friends. But to each of them the circumstances I'm going through would also be stressful, so my (wrong) perspective wasn't challenged. I just got validation that "things are the way I think they are" and so this pain I feel is "unfair". It's very ironic to say now that I see what I was believing but at the time, this idea of "circumstances being stressful and there's nothing I can do about it but sustain the stress" was believable.

From the day I received your message, I implemented concentration medtiation as a daily practice. Some days went great and almost lead to insight but I must admit that very early I started believing that "it's no different that the regular meditation I've been doing and so it won't change anything". Don't get me wrong, this was very good advice but the "new" aspect of concentration meditation is now gone and so the only benefits I can have from it now is very long-term.

I do try to breathe and put concentration on my senses at random times of the day but this practice is also subject of the idea of "not working". When I already am holding a belief for like 2 weeks, just doing that every 30 minutes seems pointless. I admit that this is just a belief however and there can be value in this practice. This idea of it "not working" has been challenged with meditation and contemplation in the last weeks were I was fooled with my self-belief, but it never went past that. It felt "slightly better" to no longer believe that "I can't get unstuck" but it didn't "unstick me".

 

But overall, I ended up stumbling onto what the belief was and so I'm doing quite good now, despite this seemingly negative thread. What I want ask you about however is not any specific issue or belief I might have, but this entire systemic problem of self-mind believing in stuff. Truth is, I didn't figure ou what the problematic belief was through meditation nor contemplation, I fell on it pretty randomly. This makes me "doubt" the entire practice that are supposed to help me in the first place.

 

I guess my big question is, on a fundamental level, why do meditation work? Doesn't it work from the assumption of a mind that needs to be trained to attain peace and thus can't attain it right now? Perhaps indeed meditation doesn't work from this assumption, only I do.

Why do sometimes I am able to stop thinking and reach peace while at other times it is seemingly impossible? Why do massive insights come randomly rather than come when I'm having an empty mind with meditation? The top insights I got were from thinking. When I meditate and I do good, it's not like a huge amount of good perspectives just pop up. My head is just seemingly empty, it feels good but it doesn't necessarily challenge perspectives.

Let me list my biggest insights with what I was doing with them:

"Maximum productivity is only reached when I feel at best" : Thinking on my first tab of LSD
"I am nothing" : Just found out randomly in the middle of my sleep after 2 months without psychedelics
"The life problem I have been struggling with is I assumed I had a reason to be ashamed" : When feeling ashamed on LSD because of the undercooked burgers I made
"What I thought I was ashamed of was my body" : In a bath during a very difficult LSD trip where I thought I was physically dead

Now this isn't a LSD propaganda thread but despite all of this, since 2.5 years ago, I'm meditating at least 30 minutes a day, sometimes up to 60 minutes. How come no insight ever came during that time? Those big insights didn't come in a moment of crazy discipline and intense meditation. I was doing random stuff and they just struck me.

At last, even if you have no answer. Even if there's no way to tell when insights will come and why, I see how I could just accept that they are random, that's just the way they are and there's nothing I can do about it. But this feels like bullshit. I lack some understanding and this meta-understanding might help me dodge all the issues I am trying to solve case-by-case.

With all of this, my life and emotional state is a huge roller coaster. Feel awesome, feel terrible, feel awesome, feel terrible. Sometimes I miss the old days of pre no-self where the highs were as high but the lows weren't as lows. 

 

 

PS: I apologize for the big rant. I think the solution is simple: I start from a point of awakening (even if it's temporary) and feel my way through life as a way to avoid believing (new) unwanted ideas. Practices help getting better at the latter. That would mean the real work starts now and not when I'm down again.

Edited December 19, 2020 by 4201

[Nahm]

@4201

Sounds like everything (& practices) is being reduced to meeting expectations, benefitting, solving a problem. Like it’s all about insights, awakening, enlightenment...vs just feeling good right now. Letting go is much deeper.  

[Moksha]

@4201 Notice a common thread in your insights?

• Maximum productivity is only reached when I feel at best
• I am nothing
• The life problem I have been struggling with is I assumed I had a reason to be ashamed
• What I thought I was ashamed of was my body

Your insights are trying to teach you a life-changing lesson. Do you see it? Your suffering is being caused by identifying with your thoughts and feelings.

• Feeling not at your best
• Thinking you are something
• Feeling ashamed of undercooking your burgers
• Thinking and feeling ashamed of identifying with your dead body

The point of meditation is not to immediately invoke insights, although this can happen. The intent is to practice centering your attention on your true nature, which is Consciousness itself. You learn to observe any thoughts and feelings that may arise, without identifying with them. Our thoughts and feelings have a strong gravitational pull, and the moment they suck you in, you are back in the grasp of egoic suffering. Don't fall for it. When you realize your true nature as Consciousness, and no longer identify with your thoughts and feelings, they lose their power over you.

It is not an easy practice. The Buddha compared it to swimming upstream, against the current of your mind. The more you do it, the stronger your spiritual muscles will become, until it becomes a (mostly) perpetual state of being.

Keep swimming, brother. ?‍♀️

[4201]

On 19/12/2020 at 8:03 AM, Nahm said:

@4201

Sounds like everything (& practices) is being reduced to meeting expectations, benefitting, solving a problem. Like it’s all about insights, awakening, enlightenment...vs just feeling good right now. Letting go is much deeper.  

Very true.

 

On 19/12/2020 at 0:15 PM, Moksha said:

@4201 Notice a common thread in your insights?

• Maximum productivity is only reached when I feel at best
• I am nothing
• The life problem I have been struggling with is I assumed I had a reason to be ashamed
• What I thought I was ashamed of was my body

Your insights are trying to teach you a life-changing lesson. Do you see it? Your suffering is being caused by identifying with your thoughts and feelings.

• Feeling not at your best
• Thinking you are something
• Feeling ashamed of undercooking your burgers
• Thinking and feeling ashamed of identifying with your dead body

The point of meditation is not to immediately invoke insights, although this can happen. The intent is to practice centering your attention on your true nature, which is Consciousness itself. You learn to observe any thoughts and feelings that may arise, without identifying with them. Our thoughts and feelings have a strong gravitational pull, and the moment they suck you in, you are back in the grasp of egoic suffering. Don't fall for it. When you realize your true nature as Consciousness, and no longer identify with your thoughts and feelings, they lose their power over you.

It is not an easy practice. The Buddha compared it to swimming upstream, against the current of your mind. The more you do it, the stronger your spiritual muscles will become, until it becomes a (mostly) perpetual state of being.

Keep swimming, brother. ?‍♀️

Thanks <3