Daniel Ingram: Psychedelics, Meditation and enlightenment

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, toocrazytobecrazy said:

Why are you speaking about it then?

I'm not

[PenguinPablo]

@Leo Gura Neo-advaitans like Rupert Spira still very far behind an enlightened Buddha type person. There's still selfing going on as "awareness", while taking the Theravadan path implies deconstructing the self, reality, and everything entirely until reality itself ceases to exist. And then it reconstructs itself since that what we do as humans, but then you at least know. 

 

The bolded part above reminds me of what you were saying on your last retreat. knowing that you would "die" permanently and leave this realm forever. only, you can leave the realm but come right back.

 

It is sorta like:

"yo, im just constructing myself, reality, consciousness itself, perception, feeling, body, etc..."

 

coming back to the ego/life/constructed reality with a different understanding

 

 

 

Lmk  your thots if you have time. Am sure u r busy.

Edited November 6, 2020 by PenguinPablo

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, toocrazytobecrazy said:

i know.

perhaps your %70 of videos are about understanding infinite consciousness and yet you are saying it is not teachable .

you are removing structre without replacing with a new one.

Why not just say it is not teachable? why do you play silly dangerous games? 

You have to be smart enough to understand what is not being said.

Doesn't seem like you are.

Finger pointing to the moon.

12 minutes ago, PenguinPablo said:

@Leo Gura he Theravadan path implies deconstructing the self, reality, and everything entirely until reality itself ceases to exist. And then it reconstructs itself since that what we do as humans, but then you at least know.

This is not necessary. All that is necessary is Infinite Consciousness.

[PenguinPablo]

@Leo Gura Even infinite consciousness is construction.

[The0Self]

39 minutes ago, toocrazytobecrazy said:

Yes you don't say a lot of things, that is why your work is counterproductive and dangerous.

Leo is doing things the hard way. He’s doing things the beautiful way. He’s not doing things. And neither are you. My character prefers transcendence over depth. Leo seems to prefer depth. (Just in a story though). I can respect his approach. Maybe you can too. Question is, can you recognize the love in his approach? Neither can I, but it is seen. What I described is what this sees; you’ll see something else entirely.

Edited November 6, 2020 by The0Self

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You have to be smart enough to understand what is not being said.

Wait you need to be smart to get results in this work? Fuck that's scary...

[Guest SirVladimir]

@toocrazytobecrazy Are you frustrated that you still do not get it?

[Enlightenment]

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3JlZGVlbWluZ2Rpc29yZGVyLmxpYnN5bi5jb20vcnNz/episode/aHR0cHM6Ly9waW5lY2FzdC5jb20vZ3VpZC84MDczZDRhYS00YjdkLTQ3N2MtYjVmZC04NGUwMDIzYWYzZDE?hl=da&ved=2ahUKEwjiooyOldXqAhVClYsKHf18CL0QieUEegQIChAE&ep=6
3:30:00

Host: It seems from where I'm sitting that there are certain experiences that are possible with psychedelics that aren't necessarily possible without psychedelics so maybe it takes you to high highs that then you know exists and there's value in that right?

Daniel Ingram: Yea no question 

 

 

[Ry4n]

@Leo Gura Where does self-actualization play in all this? Or do you see them as both codependent? 

[RedLine]

2 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3JlZGVlbWluZ2Rpc29yZGVyLmxpYnN5bi5jb20vcnNz/episode/aHR0cHM6Ly9waW5lY2FzdC5jb20vZ3VpZC84MDczZDRhYS00YjdkLTQ3N2MtYjVmZC04NGUwMDIzYWYzZDE?hl=da&ved=2ahUKEwjiooyOldXqAhVClYsKHf18CL0QieUEegQIChAE&ep=6
3:30:00

Host: It seems from where I'm sitting that there are certain experiences that are possible with psychedelics that aren't necessarily possible without psychedelics so maybe it takes you to high highs that then you know exists and there's value in that right?

Daniel Ingram: Yea no question 

 

 

 

So what is the point of saying that he is in arahatness? Isn't it contradictory? He says that he is at the highter level of awareness (arahatness) and at the same time he admits that there are more deep levels.

 

10 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Top values is relative construct. 

What you want... is what I want... which is what leo wants... which is what Trump wants... which is what your mum wants... which is what your friends want... which is what a bird wants... which is what a single cellular organism wants.

 

I totally agree with this.

 

The foundation of human passion is always the same. It just take different "modalities". The distinction between Truth and Happiness doesnt´make much sense to me. Hypothetically, if someone were 100% "happy", they would no longer seek the Truth, they would not actually seek anything .If you are looking for truth, it is because you believe there is Good in truth, even when this truth would be totally horrible.

 

I think there is something wrong with the next assertion: Daniel Igram is looking for Happiness and Leo Gura is looking for Truth, that is why they take different paths. 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by RedLine

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, RedLine said:

So what is the point of saying that he is in arahatness? Isn't it contradictory? He says that he is at the highter level of awareness (arahatness) and at the same time he admits that there are more deep levels.

Because arahatship is supposedly indestructible. It closes the loop of ego-death/ego-backlash cycles and kundalini/piti. It can’t get more closed than closed.

[Enlightenment]

22 hours ago, RedLine said:

So what is the point of saying that he is in arahatness? Isn't it contradictory? He says that he is at the highter level of awareness (arahatness) and at the same time he admits that there are more deep levels.

I don't see it as contradictory. Again, there are deeper temporary states one can experience

There are other contradictions with arahatness tho, by Buddhist definition, an Arhat can not experience sense desire, lust, anger, or craving/aversion so nobody is an arahat by that definition 

19 hours ago, The0Self said:

Because arahatship is supposedly indestructible. It closes the loop of ego-death/ego-backlash cycles and kundalini/piti. It can’t get more closed than closed.

Do you mean arahant doesn't experience piti anymore?

[RedLine]

1 hour ago, Enlightenment said:

I don't see it as contradictory. Again, there are deeper temporary states one can experience

There are other contradictions with arahatness tho, by Buddhist definition, an Arhat can not experience sense desire, lust, anger, or craving/aversion so nobody is an arahat by that definition 

Do you mean arahant doesn't experience piti anymore?

Define arahatness

[Enlightenment]

47 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Define arahatness

Quote

The fourth stage is that of Arahant (Sanskrit: Arhat), a fully awakened person. They have abandoned all ten fetters

belief in a self (Pali: sakkāya-diṭṭhi)

doubt or uncertainty, especially about the Buddha's awakeness and nine supermundane consciousnesses (vicikicchā)

attachment to rites and rituals (sīlabbata-parāmāsa)

sensual desire (kāmacchando)

ill will (vyāpādo or byāpādo)

lust for material existence, lust for material rebirth (rūparāgo)

lust for immaterial existence, lust for rebirth in a formless realm (arūparāgo)

conceit (māna)

restlessness (uddhacca)

ignorance (avijjā) 

Or Abhidhamma Pitaka's list

 

sensual lust (Pali: kāma-rāga)

anger (paṭigha)

conceit (māna)

views (diṭṭhi)

doubt (vicikicchā)

attachment to rites and rituals (sīlabbata-parāmāsa)

lust for existence (bhava-rāga)

jealousy (issā)

greed (macchariya)

ignorance (avijjā).

 

 

[Leo Gura]

All that chasing of Arhatness is bullshit.

What you really want is simply this: permanent consciousness of yourself as God. That's it. Everything else becomes irrelevant once you attain that.

The goal of this work is immortality. Once you are fully conscious that you are immortal, you've won the game. Everything else is the cherry on top of the sundae.

[Danioover9000]

@electroBeam

On 11/6/2020 at 0:23 AM, electroBeam said:

Top values is relative construct. 

What you want... is what I want... which is what leo wants... which is what Trump wants... which is what your mum wants... which is what your friends want... which is what a bird wants... which is what a single cellular organism wants.

What we all want(including you) is not an object, noun, thing, concept, layer of abstraction, liberation or freedom or all those silly spiritual concepts.

What we all want can only be felt. But not spoken about or known or understood or dissected or broken down or reduced. But we all aren't wise enough to see that, so we break it down into lots of money, love, food... and even "truth".

And saying "I'll probably change it later" is falling for that exact mistake.

When Leo says you'll never discover truth unless its your top value, if he's speaking from wisdom(which maybe he's speaking from delusion IDK) what he's actually saying is you'll never get what you want unless you want the think that can only be felt but not labelled a word or concept...

   Well, this nicely explains why when you do change your value, put in time and energy, you might end up mastery whatever field that is regardless.

   That still came from keeping that value, and everything else came from valuing that. And Leo's right, truth isn't my top value, at least coming from him because it felt off. I have my own top value, and that's fine so far, so if everyone here wants their truth, especially at the cost of survival, great, I don't care if that'll end up going over the cliff, I'll be elsewhere at that point, pursuing my survival truth, whatever that'll end up in. maybe I'll be future Daddy of quarter human, quarter elf machine, quarter plant and quarter alien, next gen species or whatever happens, happens 

[Danioover9000]

@Oppositionless

On 10/26/2020 at 6:48 PM, Oppositionless said:

Hello, here. 

   Second thought, I'll take what I said about him back. Yes, he's a master at meditating, but now I remember he kind of ripped me off with his cold approach, so screw him. Moving on to next S#, maybe Tantra Yoga next.

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@electroBeam

   Well, this nicely explains why when you do change your value, put in time and energy, you might end up mastery whatever field that is regardless.

   That still came from keeping that value, and everything else came from valuing that. And Leo's right, truth isn't my top value, at least coming from him because it felt off. I have my own top value, and that's fine so far, so if everyone here wants their truth, especially at the cost of survival, great, I don't care if that'll end up going over the cliff, I'll be elsewhere at that point, pursuing my survival truth, whatever that'll end up in. maybe I'll be future Daddy of quarter human, quarter elf machine, quarter plant and quarter alien, next gen species or whatever happens, happens 

just keep in mind there's no such actual thing as survival  if you contemplate what survival is, you wont find an answer, perhaps because the concept of survival was actually a lie designed to wiggle your vibrational state, rather than explain some truth about what's happening. 

[Danioover9000]

@electroBeam

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

just keep in mind there's no such actual thing as survival  if you contemplate what survival is, you wont find an answer, perhaps because the concept of survival was actually a lie designed to wiggle your vibrational state, rather than explain some truth about what's happening. 

   When I finally get the answer to the truth, I'll be atop all skies, all stars, and you all will tremble before me. Don't worry, one day you all will. 

[The0Self]

17 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

Do you mean arahant doesn't experience piti anymore?

Not quite, but for an arahat the piti flows smoothly in a circuit, isn't tumultuous, and doesn't cause one to cycle through the progress of insight. Rather than feeling weird stuff like euphoric explosions at the top of head, insomnia, mania, etc. In some cases I think bipolar may be a diagnosis that completely ignores all spiritual causes, such as piti/dark-night cycles. The newer field of transpersonal psychology may be addressing this kind of stuff, however.

Arahatship is really just an amazingly fun toy, it's not liberation.