Why I'm Voting For Trump

[Dingo]

Some perspective about the US from abroad...
I live in Europe, travel around quite a bit, come from Czechia, live & study political science (social science) in Denmark.

In Denmark, the international young classmates generally view the whole Trump presidency as a ridiculous phenomena... almost like a living nightmare, that is too crazy to believe it is real. He is viewed as incompetent and racist clown of a president. He is a president, that we would expect in some second or third world country. Even some professors will openly make fun of him. Rise of fascism, alt-right, political polarization are all promoted by the way he acts. Just the other day we were analyzing the US as on its way to a flawed democracy and failed state (there are certainly growing amount of factors, that contribute to this conclusion). 

In general many young Europeans, who engage in some kind of politics, think of the US under Trump as much less of an ally. It is much clearer here now, that we cannot rely on the US as a key strategic partner to Europe, because electing another president like Trump in future will threaten our survival. The EU would love for the US to have a strong and competent leader, that is willing to cooperate and not indulge in selfish actions and economic nationalism. Such leader would obviously see, that cooperation is essential at addressing global and geopolitical issues.

The US has lost a lot of its trust and fascination. China is closing in to the power-level of the US - it is useful to come to the realization of this, so that some kind of strategy for preventing a war can be applied. Of course, Trump is unable to do such a thing and actually he does the opposite... having such reckless president of the world's super for sure makes many millennials over here anxious and pessimistic about humankind's future. 

[AtheisticNonduality]

52 minutes ago, ArchangelG said:

A somewhat solid ORANGE/blue is probably better than a toxic GREEN/red.

Nope, I'd take a Green-Red over an Orange-Blue any day.

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, Dingo said:

In general many young Europeans, who engage in some kind of politics, think of the US under Trump as much less of an ally. It is much clearer here now, that we cannot rely on the US as a key strategic partner to Europe, because electing another president like Trump in future will threaten our survival. The EU would love for the US to have a strong and competent leader, that is willing to cooperate and not indulge in selfish actions and economic nationalism. Such leader would obviously see, that cooperation is essential at addressing global and geopolitical issues.

 

I think Trump was actually great for Europe. It showed that we can't rely on the US for safety etc. and we need to grow up and handle our own shit.

 

Also many people in Europe see the US's role as superpower and world police, starting wars etc. very critical and that was long before Trump.

The country still has the death penalty etc. all those things have nothing to do with Trump.

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Obviously, i said the same thing in a previous post.

It's obvious to you, yet without context it's not obvious to the reader. Citing data without specifying absolute or per capital leaves the reader vulnerable to misinterpretation. For example, showing data that the U.S. has less cases than Europe is misleading if it's not normalized. I'm not suggesting that this was the intention - just that the presentation of data in that manner is misleading. As well, its is not a fair comparison due to population differences. 

Presenting absolute numbers as a means of comparison is common with right wing Americans trying to push an agenda that Trump and the U.S. have done well relative to other countries. Yet a per capita graph (like Leo's upthread) shows this is not the case - that it is propaganda. 

If you post absolute numbers, please specify so - that way people know it isn't a fair comparison and won't get misled. 

[PurpleTree]

5 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

It's obvious to you, yet without context it's not obvious to the reader. Citing data without specifying absolute or per capital leaves the reader vulnerable to misinterpretation. For example, showing data that the U.S. has less cases than Europe is misleading if it's not normalized. I'm not suggesting that this was the intention - just that the presentation of data in that manner is misleading. As well, its is not a fair comparison due to population differences. 

This type of misleading presentation is common with right wing Americans trying to push an agenda that Trump and the U.S. have done well relative to other countries. Yet a per capita graph (like Leo's upthread) shows this is not the case - that it is propaganda. 

If you post absolute numbers, please specify so - that way people know it isn't a fair comparison and won't get misled. 

read my older post where i was pointing this out to other people in this topic who were doing exactly that.

where they said the us has the highest death count and  told them nope, not per capita

[Forestluv]

24 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

read my older post where i was pointing this out to other people in this topic who were doing exactly that.

where they said the us has the highest death count and  told them nope, not per capita

I'm not saying that you don't understand this or that your intention was to mislead. I'm saying that presenting statistics as a basis of comparison without specifying they are absolute numbers is misleading. Whether you are aware of this or not is irrelevant to the inherent misleading nature. 

[PurpleTree]

Just now, Forestluv said:

I'm not saying that you don't understand this or that your intention was to mislead. I'm saying that presenting statistics as a basis of comparison without specifying they are absolute numbers is misleading. Whether you are aware of this or not is irrelevant to the inherent misleading nature. 

Well point this out to the others who were doing that on all these previous pages then who claimed that the us has the highest death toll.

 

[Arcangelo]

@Forestluv  What are you talking about man?????

13 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

"Bro" no Peru, Belgium, Spain, Brazil, Chile, Bolivia all have a higher death toll per capita than the US, some of those much higher.

And Mexico, Argentina, UK, Italy also have about the same per one million inhabitants, just a bit less. Sweden and France are also not far off.

Obviously you can't go by total numbers as the US has a 330 million population, which is much bigger than any European and Latin American country and bigger than most other countries too but you already know that.

You didn't read this?

[PurpleTree]

21 hours ago, Preety_India said:

You don't know shit.

haven't even seen this, how friendly

which sd stage is that?  

Edited October 27, 2020 by PurpleTree

[UnbornTao]

@PlasmicProjection okey-dokey 

[Forestluv]

@Arcangelo That isn't the post I'm referring to.

I can see he understands what per capita is. I'm just asking that people specify when they post absolute numbers.

In the larger context, yes PurpleTree is correct. 

18 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Well point this out to the others who were doing that on all these previous pages then who claimed that the us has the highest death toll.

I missed that. Thank you for pointing it out. 

[Arcangelo]

^OK

Don't vote for Trump guys.
It is irresponsible IMO to vote for a climate change denier.

6 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

which sd stage is that?

Triggered green I think.

 

 

Arc

[Forestluv]

For those wanting to see user friendly spreadsheets of both absolute and per capital numbers, this website is great.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[PurpleTree]

13 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

^OK

Don't vote for Trump guys.
It is irresponsible IMO to vote for a climate change denier.

Triggered green I think.

 

 

Arc

seems red to me

all this anger

but i also don't know much about sd

Edited October 27, 2020 by PurpleTree

[abrakamowse]

 

[invictus]

On 10/26/2020 at 7:53 AM, PlasmicProjection said:

There was no off topic, or political section on this forum so please move to appropriate section if this isn't good enough here.

First of all I never voted for Trump last election. I voted for Bernie then Jill Stein because I don't like the establishment. I voted for Obama the first term. I was a Democrat for a very long time. Most of my adult life I've been Democrat. But this election time is different. There are some key events which switched my vote. Number one being the rioting and looting. That is the trigger for my vote for Trump. But there is a long list of other reasons why I'm voting for him. I'd say second to that is freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is being suppressed more and more by democrats. People are afraid to share who they are voting for a why, this is a HUGE no no in my book. For me Trump represents freedom of speech, and freedom of thought. Because I can have a conversation with a conservative and tell them I'm voting for Biden, but I can't have a conversation with many democrats if I tell them I'm voting for Trump as many times it just leads to demonization, and even ostracizing quite quickly. This can get dangerous very quickly if we don't start standing up for our freedoms.

So to sum up here's the main reasons I'm voting for Trump.

1. Policy is more important than character. Yes Trump lies, but so does Biden. Yes he's not sharp, but Biden's got dementia, and probably on on drug like adderall during the debates. Excluding character, Trumps policies have been great. The economy was way better under Trump than Obama.

2. The economy has done fantastic under Trump before Covid, and I can't blame Trump on covid

3. Trumps policies may not be vertical growth from the ego development theory POV, but most definitely they horizontally point on.

4. He has signed several historic peace deals. I know Trump isn't going to start WWIII.

5. Second amendment freedom to own and carry and firearm. There is no other better protection than a gun. Nothing else even comes even close to a gun. A taser, knife, bat, even a taser you can shoot is woefully inadequate. Nothing will stop and attacker quicker than a gun.

6. School choice, school choice is a supported by most black people despite what the media is telling us.

7. Trumps hard on China, love this because China secretly wants to take over the world. Perhaps not by WWIII but if they could they most definitely would.

8. More black people are getting jobs now that Trump has cracked down on illegal immigration.

9. Trump is best suited to level the playing field in big tech censorship.

 

Here's to sum up why I'm also voting against the Left/Liberals/Democrats in voting for Trump.

1. Stopping the rioting and looting are of paramount importance to me since I drive rideshare for a living. Donald Trump is well suited to stopping it. Joe Biden only recently came out against the rioting and looting after the polls showed Trump was seen as better fit to deal with it, and most Americans don't want the rioting and looting according to the new polls, he flipped flopped. Kamala Harris his VP even helped raise money to bail out some of the rioters and looters.

2. The media is constantly and compulsively lying about Trump and misleading people. When Trump first said fake news, I didn't really believe it. But now here several years later and all I see if fake news coming from the mainstream media. Tim Pool covers this extensively.

3. The left, democrats and liberals doesn't know how to call out their radicals such as antifa and some of those in BLM, and even the rioting and looting. The right knows how to call out the radicals. Conservatives have distanced themselves from the alt-right, white supremacists, Neo-nazis, and even the proud boys. The left doesn't know how to stand up against the radical fringes. The left politicians in Oregon and Seattle have not only not stood up against rioters and looters but actively support these spoiled brats that riot and loot by not locking them up. 

4. Freedom of speech is at risk. And I view my freedom of speech as WAY MORE IMPORTANT then any of the so called economic benefits of and hate of Trump. Trump is one guy, but if we are silenced here and there because of the radicals that is a drop in the bucket compared to what the radical left really wants to do to our freedoms of speech. Everything is hate speech for them. It's getting ridiculous. They are redefining what hate, racism, sexism, and xenophobia is. It's getting ludicrous.

5. There are companies that are on the verge of giving us a new fuel source that is cheap, environmentally friendly, with a large energy density. So Biden's plan to end fossil fuels will just put many Americans out of work for a while, while emboldening our competitors such as Russia, and China.

 

At the end of the day there is nothing more spiritual politically than keeping and supporting our freedom of speech and stopping the rioting and looting.

1. I mean I don't know the specifics of Biden's policies, but the fact that Trump still has not proposed an alternative to Obamacare after 3 years is a pretty clear indictment for me that he is not very smart policy-wise. 

2. The performance of US economy was strong before the lockdown if you look at the stock market for sure. But be aware that while his tax cuts (which benefited the super rich for the most part) did help to boost the employment rates, the US historical data show that drastic cuts in taxes only work for a short period of time before the economic fatigue kicks in, and fundamental problems such as lack of funding to poor communities and public schools start to appear. And I am sure most people would not have blamed Trump for the GDP going down because of COVID.

3. I don't think I understand your point here.

4. Well his peace treaties might turn out well or not, but I think that getting out of the Iran deal is pretty stupid to say the least, and not very peaceful of him.

5. There is not any signs that the Democrats can do anything to the 2nd amendment. It's a political suicide if they try to touch that. At most, they might try to pass policies like better gun training or more strict background checks on a federal level. 

6. I get what you mean by school choice, but the underlying problem here is that public schools are not getting the funds that they need.

7. Well as someone who grew up in China, I can assure you that most people do not even have the time to think about attacking other countries because life is busy. They are just happy that the country is stable enough to have a decent life. Sure, most chinese want to have a more cultural impact in the world (soft power), but hardly any of them are plotting the destruction of the rest of the world. Obviously, we all have to be vigilant against the CCP, but international politics is a lot more complicated than simply us versus them.

8.That is a really stretched argument to start with (fallacy of false correlations, and it is also funny that Trump inherited the booming economy of the Obama's administration and actually made it worse in many respects.

9. If by big tech censorship you mean banning conspiracy groups like Q then I don't know what to say. A reminder that these tech companies are private corporations who have absolute control over what are posted on their platforms.

 

Last thing: And of course mainstream media reporting in general is biased because they are pushing certain narratives, but you have to also see through the hypocrisy of Fox News and far-right alternative medias. If you can't do that, then you are just as hypocritical as the medias you don't like.

[Preety_India]

3 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

seems red to me

all this anger

but i also don't know much about sd

Why are you taking it as anger? 

Take it as a statement 

 You like to associate and attach things where none exist. 

I wasn't emotional or angry or triggered while writing that. 

See how you missed the whole context and focused on a few words and also applied emotions to them. 

You wouldn't have done this if a young guy was replying back to you. But since I'm a woman, you had to make it an emotional thing. 

Move on man. You can't argue points. Where are your counter argument points? 

Did you read the whole context? Are you still saying that Trump was responsible in his handling of Covid? 

You know what, you simply want to start an argument, but you got no points, just blank noise, please do some research next time rather than doling out empty platitudes. No offense. 

You're also being very adamant. It's very irritating having to explain everything to you, especially when you don't know much, it's like spoon feeding. 

You're posting false statistics and misleading and on top of that you double down on everything by making pointless hollow arguments and associations. 

You do your own research please before questioning other's opinions. 

At Least Leo is posting facts. 

Remember debating is for egoic minds. Nobody who is interested in the truth is interested in debating. You wanna keep your ego, then keep debating, but try to focus on facts, because facts don't care about your ego. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Preety_India

[Gidiot]

Convinced this guy is trolling and thread should probably locked for low quality,

he “elaborates” on points but they are Tim Pool points.

[Leo Gura]

@Gidiot Don't be too harsh on him. He's allowed to have his position.

[PurpleTree]

6 hours ago, Preety_India said:

You're posting false statistics and misleading and on top of that you double down on everything by making pointless hollow arguments and associations. 

tell me a false statistic that i posted

6 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Why are you taking it as anger? 

telling somebody "you don't know shit" is very low level imo, you might know a lot and retain information but i think you're spiritually very underdeveloped