Height insecurity hurting my dating self esteem

[Karmadhi]

@Byun Sean I have done massive progress in self development the last few months, especially regarding non neediness, self sufficience, understanding ego and it's mechanics and trying to un-wire social conditioning and programming regarding what you should like want etc. Yes it is tough but very enjoyable especially during covid. The thing is that girls almost never were into me and it has caused some self esteem issues due to my basic Maslow Needs not being met. I think i need to tackle this dating/girls thing in order to develop myself even further. The base needs to be taken care of before you can build up. However i am very logical and analytical kind of person, very similar to Leo (which is why i resonate with him) and i suck at flirting and making moves

[Akemrelax]

This is an important topic for guys.

I think you just have to accept it and not fixate upon it. You just have to accept the fact that women don't like short men. It sounds harsh but it is the truth and the only way to deal with it is to make yourself better in other domains. Wallowing over it won't help, getting negative over it won't help. 

(The feminists' will never talk about it. So much for gender equality... Sorry I couldn't help myself.)

Life is unfair, and you have to learn how to deal with unfairness. Having perspective helps, know that there are people much shorter than you, people living in much worse conditions than you, and people much more unattractive then you for no fault of their own. 

[Byun Sean]

@Karmadhi

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

I have done massive progress in self development the last few months, especially regarding non neediness, self sufficience, understanding ego and it's mechanics and trying to un-wire social conditioning and programming regarding what you should like want etc.

Good. Keep going. Eventually, you should hit a point where your self esteem is so high you will be able to go up to any girl no matter how she looks and strike up a conversation without having to feel so much nerves, resistance, or feeling like you have to fake a personality. Eventually if you go far enough

it becomes like a hot knife through butter. Effortless. But once you reach those levels you may also find you feel so good in your life you don't even feel the need to date so much anymore.

At that point your dating life will be a conscious choice rather than a compulsive one.

[Opo]

On 26/10/2020 at 1:26 AM, Karmadhi said:

Hey guys, so i am a short guy, around 172 cm

You're still taller than Joe Rogan and girls love him. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Opo

[Karmadhi]

@Opo if i lived in a country where girls had average hight then i would not have made this post. Doubt Joe Rogan lives in a country with super tall girls. Plus i dont have a youtube channel with millions of subs. Dont use extreme outliers like this please, the random short guy you see on the street or in the gym (since i workout hehe) would be a better example. 

[Karmadhi]

@Akemrelax you re right. Half the reason i made this post was to help myself accept it through your guys support. Its just painful af to be invisible to girls like i am but i dont have a choice as you said so yeah. Invisible i mean attraction wise because personality wise girls really enjoy my company, even hot ones

[Karmadhi]

@Byun Sean I never really got involved with dating for a long time. Im on my early 20s and before i just didnt have nerves for it. Now i kinda wanna get started and these horrible limiting beliefes are a huge obsticle that im trying hard to overcome. I just want a random girl to feel attracted to me just by me being me and not hitting on her or anything like that hehe. It happens to my friends from time to time but never me. Its painful af. Anyway thanks a lot for your advices :))

[Opo]

8 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Opo Plus i dont have a youtube channel with millions of subs. 

They don't like him because of the subs. 

[arlin]

On 28/10/2020 at 1:07 AM, Karmadhi said:

@Byun Sean I have done massive progress in self development the last few months, especially regarding non neediness, self sufficience, understanding ego and it's mechanics and trying to un-wire social conditioning and programming regarding what you should like want etc. Yes it is tough but very enjoyable especially during covid. The thing is that girls almost never were into me and it has caused some self esteem issues due to my basic Maslow Needs not being met. I think i need to tackle this dating/girls thing in order to develop myself even further. The base needs to be taken care of before you can build up. However i am very logical and analytical kind of person, very similar to Leo (which is why i resonate with him) and i suck at flirting and making moves

You are describing me. I resonate completely, we have similar problems.

I resonate with you when you say girls enjoy your company but won't be attracted to you. 

I also thinks looks matter and first thing is, nobody will say this to you.

Because beautifull people want an excuse to fool themselves into thinking that their partner is attracted to them not by them being good looking, which of course if you were good looking, you would do the same thing.

But there are people like me (the photo here covers  flaws such as big nose)  that their personal experience says otherwise, that thei get ignored, in my case i got shamed. And if you reach out everybody will keep gaslighting you.

Im tired of this bullshit here. Looks matter to everybody. The focus should be on how can we, as ugly or below avarage guys, still live a fulfilling life? How can we?
 

Did you find an answer to this? We can chat sometimes. 

[Globalcollective]

1 hour ago, arlin said:

You are describing me. I resonate completely, we have similar problems.

I resonate with you when you say girls enjoy your company but won't be attracted to you. 

I also thinks looks matter and first thing is, nobody will say this to you.

Because beautifull people want an excuse to fool themselves into thinking that their partner is attracted to them not by them being good looking, which of course if you were good looking, you would do the same thing.

But there are people like me (the photo here covers  flaws such as big nose)  that their personal experience says otherwise, that thei get ignored, in my case i got shamed. And if you reach out everybody will keep gaslighting you.

Im tired of this bullshit here. Looks matter to everybody. The focus should be on how can we, as ugly or below avarage guys, still live a fulfilling life? How can we?
 

Did you find an answer to this? We can chat sometimes. 

I really empathise with you guys and how this can be a very tough part to life especially in your early 20s but seriously you guys have to drop the whole obsessing over looks thing. Its a very very skewed way of looking at it. It's just not that black and white, there is far more to it than that. 

When I was in my early 20s I couldn't get anyone to go out with me, I then did a lot of work on myself and now its completely different story having to much choice to handle. I still look the same as I did but Im a completely different person internally so that blows the whole looks matter Idea out the window. 

You have to look deep within yourself about insecurities about your appearance, are they related to traumas and also what habits are you doing to feed them. Are you feeding your mind toxic ideas like black pill ect? 

[arlin]

@Globalcollective i agree with you. but there is a problem. If you are good looking or average and have traumas and are unconfident  yes of course, of course it will blow your fkin mind away with your results that you get after working on yourself and you will say "see? it was never about that". People like good looking people but this does not mean you know how to create sexual attraction and are confident and have good personalllity etc..

Fact is that an ugly guy before or after trauma is still ugly. I don't know if much changes after all the work.

At best is to find a way to be at peace and deal with it even though you are ugly, undesirable or unappeling etc... this would be more realistic because fact is that guys like me have been shamed not for their confidence or traumas but looks. Girls loughed at me and my ex called me ugly everytime and made fun of me (im aware of the abuse, but still).

So telling guys like this looks don't matter is invalidating their whole reality and pain, and gaslighting them. it's horrible.

Btw im very open minded so always opened to your views.

[Globalcollective]

@arlin

2 hours ago, arlin said:

@Globalcollective i agree with you. but there is a problem. If you are good looking or average and have traumas and are unconfident  yes of course, of course it will blow your fkin mind away with your results that you get after working on yourself and you will say "see? it was never about that". People like good looking people but this does not mean you know how to create sexual attraction and are confident and have good personalllity etc..

Fact is that an ugly guy before or after trauma is still ugly. I don't know if much changes after all the work.

At best is to find a way to be at peace and deal with it even though you are ugly, undesirable or unappeling etc... this would be more realistic because fact is that guys like me have been shamed not for their confidence or traumas but looks. Girls loughed at me and my ex called me ugly everytime and made fun of me (im aware of the abuse, but still).

So telling guys like this looks don't matter is invalidating their whole reality and pain, and gaslighting them. it's horrible.

Btw im very open minded so always opened to your views.

@arlin May I ask how old you are? The problem I have with this is that I have seen with my own two eyes ugly guys get absolutely amazing results. One guy particularly who was hideous get some of the best results ive ever seen. You just don't have the real life experience to back up these crazy claims. Ive mentioned this before your generation is a victim of the internet with things like social media and dating apps. When I was younger all we had was bars, clubs, parties and daygame. I must of done well over 5000 approaches so have waay more experience than the average person. Your not wrong looks do matter but its no excuse. Btw didn't RSD Tyler literally prove looks don't matter look at his results or say a guy like Tom Torero? 

What you have to understand is the mindsets you have are also going to heavily put girls off not your looks, why not love the way you look, be confident in it and heal your past wounds. I am not gaslighting you, if anything its the other way round because you don't have ten years experience as a dating coach seeing 1000s of guys come and go and SEE loads of ugly guys do great. 

its your funeral at the end of the day your like darth vader, you have been seduced by the dark side. This is a self actualization forum, so self actualize. 

But on a serious note, I do understand what it feels like to be in your shoes, Im not here to pick a fight I'm here too help. It dose really hurt to be cast out of living a normal life. It sucks, but there is hope, and you can change this around. There is nothing sweeter than an underdogs story. Please, try and move on from this and try and develop an amazing life with a amazing partner. You can do it mate, it may take everything you have but it can be done. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Globalcollective

[Byun Sean]

3 hours ago, arlin said:

You are describing me. I resonate completely, we have similar problems.

I resonate with you when you say girls enjoy your company but won't be attracted to you. 

I

One major thing you must do in attracting a girl you like is you have to let her know right off the bat you find her attractive and you see her as more than just a friend.

A major trap us guys fall into is we think by spending time with a girl as a friend that she will catch feelings on her own like we do with girls we like.

Not true.

If they find the guy insanely attractive naturally she may or may not start dropping signs that she likes you. But most of the time girls won't even consider seriously dating you unless you put your feelings in front of her on the chopping block first.

What else should women do? Your the man. Your the hunter. Go out and get her. No quality girl is going to spread her legs for you when you do nothing.

[Karmadhi]

@Byun Sean Dude that advice works if the girl is already attracted to you. If she is attracted to you then yeah showing intent will work. If she is not attracted to you then showing intent wont do shit,you ll just get a rejection. I have no issues with getting rejected, its part of life BUT telling a person to just show intent is bad advice in my opinion. It is like telling someone to apply for a job without a degree. You should tell them how to attract the girl FIRST then show intent so you can actually get success. If the guy is below average looking then he will need serious game to attract a girl which MOST guys do not have. Even an average looking guy needs decent game, only attractive guys can get away with lame game. I am talking about getting a decent girl here not some girl no one wants to fuck or be with. @arlin Tbh i do not think you are actually ugly as you say, you seem like okay/normal looking to me. So neither good or bad looking, just average. Do not call yourself ugly. Also try to get fit if you are short, it does help trust me (personal experience hehe)

[Byun Sean]

50 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@Byun Sean Dude that advice works if the girl is already attracted to you. If she is attracted to you then yeah showing intent will work. If she is not attracted to you then showing intent wont do shit,you ll just get a rejection. I have no issues with getting rejected, its part of life BUT telling a person to just show intent is bad advice in my opinion. It is like telling someone to apply for a job without a degree. You should tell them how to attract the girl FIRST then show intent so you can actually get success. If the guy is below average looking then he will need serious game to attract a girl which MOST guys do not have. Even an average looking guy needs decent game, only attractive guys can get away with lame game. I am talking about getting a decent girl here not some girl no one wants to fuck or be with. @arlin Tbh i do not think you are actually ugly as you say, you seem like okay/normal looking to me. So neither good or bad looking, just average. Do not call yourself ugly. Also try to get fit if you are short, it does help trust me (personal experience hehe)

Nah if you let her know right off the bat you find her attractive it puts her into that frame of mind.

Right after meeting her it is very useful to say something like "I find you attractive." 

Otherwise you leave her questioning: Does he like me as a friend? More than a friend? I don't know. 

There is a good chance she won't develop sexual feelings for you if she doesn't know you think of her sexually.

Eventually you will land in the friend box and she will be dating another guy who was man enough to confess his feelings sooner.

[arlin]

10 hours ago, Globalcollective said:

May I ask how old you are?

Im 21 years old

10 hours ago, Globalcollective said:

You just don't have the real life experience to back up these crazy claims.

It may be that i don't have that much experience. However, i approached girls many times. Sometimes i got loughed at. 

To be fair, some cute girls smiled at me but i didn't have the confidence or the self esteem to see that maybe she was being open to me.

10 hours ago, Globalcollective said:

Ive mentioned this before your generation is a victim of the internet with things like social media and dating apps.

This is soo true. In fact, on instagram i feel bad looking at girls and eveybody is just about looks. It really sucks... BTW do you having a good social profile helps? If yes, in what way?

 

10 hours ago, Globalcollective said:

What you have to understand is the mindsets you have are also going to heavily put girls off not your looks,

Yes you are right, i agree with that.

10 hours ago, Globalcollective said:

why not love the way you look, be confident in it and heal your past wounds.

I am in the process of it... im in the process of healing. In regards to love the way i look, it seems interesting i will work on that for sure.

 

10 hours ago, Globalcollective said:

if anything its the other way round because you don't have ten years experience as a dating coach seeing 1000s of guys come and go and SEE loads of ugly guys do great. 

Are you a dating coach? Is this what you are saying? Btw, about ugly guys getting results, that's interesting.

10 hours ago, Globalcollective said:

you have been seduced by the dark side.

Well, im just trying to accept reality and not go too far with my expectations because i will be hurt as i have been too many times. So im moving towards accepting the fact and find a way to still feel valuable and important in the world. You know what i mean?

But you seem to know what you are talking about. I want to get better with girls, and even if im ugly or not, i will put myself out there and try to become more confident for myself. Because this is my mission in life (i have big goals).

If i wanted to improve with girls, what are the action steps you would say i should take first?

Basically, can you give me some advice on how can i grow my confidence in this area of life?

7 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Tbh i do not think you are actually ugly as you say, you seem like okay/normal looking to me. So neither good or bad looking, just average.

You are not the first guy that tells me this.

I have a bum in my nose and i don't like my smile... i think im not downright ugly to be fair, but below average, or slightly below.

Also, i don't have a good sense of style. I will work on that.

7 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Even an average looking guy needs decent game, only attractive guys can get away with lame game. I am talking about getting a decent girl here not some girl no one wants to fuck or be with.

I agree.

[Karmadhi]

@Byun Sean You miss my point. It does not matter if i put it on her frame of mind or not. If she is not attracted to you then she will reject you. Only good looking guys can actually use this advice since they get the attraction from the girl because of how they look. Other guys, cannot. Attract her while showing intent then sure. But just showing intent wont work usually. May work 1/50 cases where girl just happens to like your looks but fuck that.

 

[Leo Gura]

It doesn't matter! Shut up your monkey mind and go talk to girls.

20% is more girls than you'll ever need.

[Raze]

 

[Michael569]

On 26/10/2020 at 0:26 AM, Karmadhi said:

s that would even consider dating me which are like 20 percent of all girls

I don't know where you live but that's still A LOT of girls. Most guys get nowhere near that.