Question on The Nature of Consciousness

[SamueLSD]

Firstly, I'm not a materialist, I've contemplated my way out of that trap. I'm just very minfucked at the moment

So,

We imagine the brain, it is just a concept, a belief.

Question: Then how come physiology directly affects our mind?  

There is only consciousness, but I am not directly conscious of my brain and it still seems to be 'there'. 

 

I'll put it another way: I am not directly conscious of  Sagittarius A*, however it still holds our sun and many other stars within its orbit, creating the milky way.  

 

Or am I actually consciously creating those things on a level of awareness that I cannot reach within the mind?

 

What is the metaphysical / epistemological explanation for this?? What am I missing?

 

 

 

 

[SamueLSD]

@Mikael89 Where did I state otherwise?

 

And technically they are not different. The mind is consciousness. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by SamueLSD

[electroBeam]

13 minutes ago, SamueLSD said:

Firstly, I'm not a materialist, I've contemplated my way out of that trap. I'm just very minfucked at the moment

Yeah but don't fall into the trap of calling yourself a non dualist either

14 minutes ago, SamueLSD said:

Question: Then how come physiology directly affects our mind?  

And it will continue to....

But really what I think is going on here, is this observation is making ya stuck I think. And in that context specifically, it may be helpful to contemplate what the actual difference is between different physiological states.

Yeah sure they are different, but why? Can you actually grasp what specifically is different about them?

I remember ages ago you told me that all rules are imaginary and aren't actually there. You sort of got that the rules are there, but aren't there at the same time, because what's really the difference between different rules?

Well are different physiological states actually different too?

[SamueLSD]

6 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Here:

So the answer would be: physiology doesn't affect Consciousness, it affects the mind.

I said mind, not consciousness. Either way, beside the point.

[Leo Gura]

32 minutes ago, SamueLSD said:

Question: Then how come physiology directly affects our mind?  

Physiology IS mind. Mind affects mind.

Do you have a problem with atoms affecting atoms? No

Then why do you have a problem with mind affecting mind?

Atoms are mind affecting mind. Mind imagines a proton. Mind imagines an electron. Mind imagines proton affecting the electron. Mind imagines motion. Easy.

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There is only consciousness, but I am not directly conscious of my brain and it still seems to be 'there'. 

It isn't there. You are stuck imagining it's there and that it's necessary.

Quote

I'll put it another way: I am not directly conscious of  Sagittarius A*, however it still holds our sun and many other stars within its orbit, creating the milky way.  

All of that is just a fantasy in your mind that you just imagined. Pure concept.

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Or am I actually consciously creating those things on a level of awareness that I cannot reach within the mind?

OF COURSE!

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What is the metaphysical / epistemological explanation for this?? What am I missing?

You're missing the obvious: this is a dream. It works exactly like a dream. Wake up.

[SamueLSD]

8 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

I remember ages ago you told me that all rules are imaginary and aren't actually there. You sort of got that the rules are there, but aren't there at the same time, because what's really the difference between different rules?

Well are different physiological states actually different too?

Rules are real in the sense that imagination is real, but aren't in the sense that they are nothing more than that.

 

I don't quite understand what that implies about physiological states though. 

[electroBeam]

@SamueLSD physiological states are real in the sense that imagination is real, but aren't in the sense that they are nothing more than that.

 

[SamueLSD]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Physiology IS mind

If not the brain, what is physiology ? 

 

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It isn't there. You are stuck imagining it's there and that it's necessary.

I don't imagine its necessary for consciousness. However, if someone were to remove my frontal lobe, would it not change something? Proving that it is necessary for my mind to operate? 

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

OF COURSE!

Even though I have many questions, this does clear things up alot for me. I was stuck on thinking that you and many others meant there is no such thing as 'indirect' consciousness, and there is only my direct experience. Which I now know is not the case. Thanks. 

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

All of that is just a fantasy in your mind that you just imagined. Pure concept.

Because I am perceiving them through the prism of mind. But consciousness has created them in actuality? 

Edited October 25, 2020 by SamueLSD

[SamueLSD]

9 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

@SamueLSD physiological states are real in the sense that imagination is real, but aren't in the sense that they are nothing more than that.

I see. the difference being: Rules are imagined by the mind, but physiology is imagined by Mind ( capital M ).

Right?

[electroBeam]

@SamueLSD mind = Mind

[SamueLSD]

@electroBeam  Right. I think I've caught myself creating boundaries / layers.

[SamueLSD]

3 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Brain is necessary for your mind to operate, but not for Consciousness.

Some of you might disagree with me though, Leo probably does.

I agree with you.

I would be interested in what @Leo Gura would say.

[mandyjw]

@SamueLSD You might like this https://www.amazon.com/Nature-Consciousness-Essays-Unity-Matter/dp/1684030005/ref=sr_1_1?crid=WLIWO3ZPLDG3&dchild=1&keywords=the+nature+of+consciousness+rupert+spira&qid=1603622558&sprefix=the+nature+of+conciou%2Caps%2C194&sr=8-1

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, SamueLSD said:

If not the brain, what is physiology ? 

You're missing the simple fact that brain is mind.

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I don't imagine its necessary for consciousness. However, if someone were to remove my frontal lobe, would it not change something? Proving that it is necessary for my mind to operate? 

Of course it would change something. Again: mind affects mind.

In a novel, if you cut off a character's legs, that affects his whole story arc. He can no longer run around as before. But it does not prove the reality of legs or the character.

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I was stuck on thinking that you and many others meant there is no such thing as 'indirect' consciousness, and there is only my direct experience. Which I now know is not the case. Thanks.

No, you got it backwards.

There is only your experience. Nothing else. All others are part of your direct experience. The experiences of others is imagined by your mind.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, toocrazytobecrazy said:

do you also think brain also functions as emotions,sensations? 

emotions and sensations could be higher but more wave like level of our computation. i am tryna say emotions and mind are not in a seperate system, rather seperate methods of computation in same system which is brain.

you referred to this as rational+ or something like this in your last video.

Your entire paradigm is completely wrong.

There are no levels to reality. This is it. As soon as you start thinking the question, "But what causes this? And what causes that?" you've already fallen into dualistic delusion. Don't go looking for hidden causes. There are no causes. Reality is uncaused.

Things don't really cause each other, rather the entire Universe exists all at once without any cause. BOOM! EVERYTHING! AT ONCE! Directly! Via no process or method.

If you're trying to track down some process by which experience is being created, you've already fucked up. You have to realize that that entire line of inquiry is wrong because it is dualistic.

You did not arrive at this moment by being born some number of years ago. You have always been here, imagining you were born some years ago. Here you are. Your entire life backstory is imaginary. It never happened. You just think it did.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

What is mind?

Everything you see.

[SamueLSD]

@mandyjw thanks, will definitely check that out 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

What am I?

Me, you sneaky bastard

[SamueLSD]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, you got it backwards.

There is only your experience. Nothing else. All others are part of your direct experience. The experiences of others is imagined by your mind.

but you just confirmed my question: "Or am I actually consciously creating those things on a level of awareness that I cannot reach within the mind?"

 

 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, SamueLSD said:

but you just confirmed my question: "Or am I actually consciously creating those things on a level of awareness that I cannot reach within the mind?"

I told you: OF COURSE!

You are imagining people so deeply that you don't know how you are doing it. Hence they seem "real".