Why shouldn't I kill someone, steal something, etc.

[commie]

Here's a quickie then: watch Game of Death (2010). It doesn't matter if you don't understand what people are saying and there are no subtitles. The thesis of the broadcast doesn't matter and it's mostly filler. But there are a few minutes where you can watch people's faces when they're dealing with causing or having caused imaginary harm. One of the things you may notice are the differences among the subjects which is part of why I think "illusion" is either an irresponsible or an ill-considered way of framing the issue.

[Gesundheit]

Simply because murderers die faster or get locked up, thanks to the collective. So, you don't see people walking around killing each other exactly because of that system/status quo, and you follow the status quo because it's difficult to go against the stream. We are chimps, and we copycat each other. The less criminals there are out there, the less likely anyone else will become a criminal. Crime rates are getting less and less because of the stability that is provided by the collective. Positive feedback loop.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The whole point of being Good is that there is absolutely no reason why you can't or shouldn't kill a basket of puppies. And yet you choose not to. Which makes you Good.

There is also absolutely no reason why I can or should feed a basket of puppies either. If I chose to ignore them and let them die, would that make me Good?

[Nthnl]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

There is also absolutely no reason why I can or should feed a basket of puppies either. If I chose to ignore them and let them die, would that make me Good?

Well from what leo said Id take it as no. Ignoring suffering beings would be less Conscious and less loving right? So in turn it would be bad? The only real solution I see here is to kill all puppies so they are no longer a moral dilemma.

[Gesundheit]

6 minutes ago, Nthnl said:

Well from what leo said Id take it as no. Ignoring suffering beings would be less Conscious and less loving right? So in turn it would be bad? The only real solution I see here is to kill all puppies so they are no longer a moral dilemma.

I proposed that question to highlight a different truth.

To me, there's no dilemma because there's no morality to being with. We create our moral codes and then give them authority over our lives. That's what the mind always does. It creates problems that it cannot solve. Discard the mind, and there will be no problems. Simple as that.

[diamondpenguin]

16 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I proposed that question to highlight a different truth.

To me, there's no dilemma because there's no morality to being with. We create our moral codes and then give them authority over our lives. That's what the mind always does. It creates problems that it cannot solve. Discard the mind, and there will be no problems. Simple as that.

Here's the thing to discarding your mind. How are you going to survive to go and survive to reach higher truths and the fabric of reality without your mind. What will you use instead?@Gesundheit  Because you are your mind. Like that's what the me is. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by diamondpenguin

[Origins]

Don't get too caught up in the mind, that's when morality becomes justified murder. Don't get too caught up in the body because we're capable of misinterpreting situations.

Most people have zero understanding of morality, which means you have to build your own. I'll tell you now, there's going to be a balance between the body, the mind, the heart and even consciousness itself. 

As far as I'm aware, we have ZERO books on getting the balance right here, so good luck with that. It is not black and white. Don't fall for either the intellectual or the emotional traps, one leads to moronic nihilism and the other simply to juxtapose goes too green (empathy on steroids, and as we know, steroids can have many drawbacks).

Look around you, look at all the main movements from politics to gender issues to racial issues to x cultural issues. We don't have morality right just like alligators can't make poached eggs on toast let alone ask you whether you'd like them scrambled, boiled or fried.

It's an incremental learning curve, start with your emotions, middle it with your mind and end with your intuition. Seek all forms of incrementally higher understanding above all else, that'll incrementally improve your own personal definition of what morality you should be applying.

No body here knows the answers of all answers if they take an honest look at cultural progressions overtime (every hundred years cultures see things very differently - but that tells you something, that you gotta be learning all the time about how to grow your understanding of not just morality but all of life), some better than others sure, but we're all likely wrong on everything to do with everything and a little better than others on some things like morality amidst that everything.

On processes, think cognitive and affective empathy. Master them individually and how they interactively work and you'll develop and master effective empathy. Thus mastery of cognitive and affective empathy = effective empathy (aka productively utilised empathy).

Effective empathy is just a new term I've coined right now by the way. Like I said, we're always evolving and consumer culture, that is, information which is readily available to us especially in the form of news media, is way, way behind. 

On principles, think of rules like the golden rule "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", that'll help you get an honest look at your ethics and what they mean to you and how you operate in the world in the context of how the world operates and where the rest of social life fits into that.

Good luck! Don't take this lightly. Take your time. And trust yourself.

[Gesundheit]

18 minutes ago, diamondpenguin said:

Here's the thing to discarding your mind. How are you going to survive to go and survive to reach higher truths and the fabric of reality without your mind. What will you use instead?@Gesundheit  Because you are your mind. Like that's what the me is. 

That's just more mind. Not my thing. Sorry.

[Origins]

Learn as much as you can about all cultures across the planet is another important point, for example, I'm from Australia and the amount of varied opinions and subsequent morality that people have been forming about the COVID-19 issue and subsequent restrictions just shows you how just in one culture there can be such varied perspectives (and again, subsequent morality). Intelligence, both emotional and cognitive empathy, ego development, traditional and therefore insufficient views on moral development and just so many other ares of human individual and collective psychology I've learned go into peoples moral decision making more than simply saying "Is it right to do this or that?" it's more a case of  "in what areas of this organisms makeup implicated in moral decision making and how developed are those areas?

In short, concerning this video and people's responses on just one of the many issues here, in this case Daniel Andrews, have been extremely stupid and morally unjust, and not because they're necessarily wrong, but that the necessary investigation has not been able to be carried out for a sufficient enough evaluation. That's immoral because it naturally leads to poor decision making concerning a person. It happens ALL the time across the planet in both political and general social outfits, people being scapegoated for no reason to people being propped up for the wrong reasons. People don't have a good enough understanding of their cognitive, emotional and physical (among other) processes, so, their morality will continually be screwed up and they'll be continually manipulated by news-media who know how to play their cards there by pigeon holing leaders, parties for better or for worse, another great example concerns the latest Trump and Biden debate (my preliminary comments there can be found in my recent comment history).

 

 

[Keef]

1 hour ago, Nthnl said:

Well from what leo said Id take it as no. Ignoring suffering beings would be less Conscious and less loving right? So in turn it would be bad? The only real solution I see here is to kill all puppies so they are no longer a moral dilemma.

Or you could give your local animal shelter a call?

[Nthnl]

Just wanted to thank everyone here for their replies. I'm surprised such an environment exists in the world.

[Forestluv]

In addition to intellectual constructs of no objective right and wrong, I’d also recommend direct experience of no right or wrong. For most people, this is much more difficult to access and realize, since it is a deeper level of self surrender and powerlessness. If the mind is conceptualizing about no right or wrong, it still has internal narrative control.

Take a psychedelic and save years of time.

[Someone here]

Yes there is no such thing as good or bad objectively.  To the universe it does not matter if you kill someone or feed them. Nothing is good or bad. Objectively. Good or bad are relative to your survival or whatever else it's relative to.   If you kill a chicken and eat it. That's good for you and bad for the chicken.  That's all about it. Nothing right or wrong about killing someone. And there is no reason why you should or shouldn't kill someone unless you fabricate one. Which is what humans did. Nothing more to discuss. 

[Gesundheit]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

If you kill a chicken and eat it. That's good for you and bad for the chicken. 

Says who?

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Says who?

Me ofcourse. 

[Gesundheit]

@Someone here My question is more about the technical definitions of good and bad though. How do "you" or whatever, define good and bad? Where is the line? Why is life good and death bad? Based on what are we judging? Etc...

[Shin]

You're too much in your head guys.

It doesn't matter if it's good or not, if it's an illusion or not, if there is no reason too or not.

What matters is how you feel.

The «reason» you don't kill/steal/beat someone is simply because it doesn't feel good.

What feels good is to help, nurture and care.

That's it.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Shin

[Someone here]

@Gesundheit I already said there is no such thing as good or bad objectively. Good and bad are not found out in the world anywhere.  They are only found in your skull. You make them up. Why? Because you want to survive. Why do you want to survive?  Who knows.! 

[Gesundheit]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Gesundheit I already said there is no such thing as good or bad objectively. Good and bad are not found out in the world anywhere.  They are only found in your skull. You make them up. Why? Because you want to survive. Why do you want to survive?  Who knows.! 

My point is still not getting across. Yes, all of that is right and everything. But I'm not asking "why?". I'm asking "what?". What is it that makes something "good" and another "bad"? And by "what" here, I don't want you to tell me that it's the ego. Yes, it is the ego. But what are the ego's justifications for making those judgements? What is it exactly that defines good and bad for the ego? What does the ego use to discriminate? And on what basis? I know it's survival. But how does the ego know what will survive it? And on what basis? You see what I'm saying? This is a very deep and advanced inquiry, and you may not come out the same person afterwards.

[Gesundheit]

23 minutes ago, Shin said:

You're too much in your head guys.

It doesn't matter if it's good or not, if it's an illusion or not, if there is no reason too or not.

What matters is how you feel.

The «reason» you don't kill/steal/beat someone is simply because it doesn't feel good.

What feels good is to help, nurture and care.

That's it.

Revenge feels good, even though a lot of times it could be stemming from a simple misunderstanding. A lot of our feelings actually stem from simple misunderstandings. So how can you say such things?

Edited October 25, 2020 by Gesundheit