Why shouldn't I kill someone, steal something, etc.

[Nthnl]

Although I personality don't want to do these things that are usually considered wrong due to societal training. What actual reason do we have not to do them. In many of Leos videos he says There is no right and wrong, or good and evil are an illusion. I completely agree and understand that. But then what motivation do we have not to do things that are considered bad. Why isn't Leo running around killing people. I want a moral code I can follow while also being a high level thinker. But im starting to think that's impossible. When i say moral code I don't mean moral like Leo has spoken about I've seen those videos as well. 

I simply want to know, while understanding these illusions and concepts, what i should and shouldn't do. If theres no answer, im not sure i want to be a high level thinker. Maybe I don't fully understand your idea of conscious morality as you talked about before. The idea of not doing harm because you see everyone as you. But if so how does that make any action bad. If we are all an illusion, wouldn't going around killing everyone be a good thing? freeing thousands from the illusion? I'm just lost on this topic, i must have missed something or maybe you didn't cover exactly what im getting at. But if Leo or anyone else has an idea of this please let me know.

[Megan Alecia]

@Nthnl Because humans can feel emotions. If you don't respect or acknowledge that, there's bound to be consequences, one way or another. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Megan Alecia

[Nthnl]

3 minutes ago, Megan Alecia said:

@Nthnl Because humans can feel emotions. If you don't respect or acknowledge that, there's bound to be consequences, one way or another. 

But isnt that all an illusion? What does it matter.

[Nthnl]

6 minutes ago, Megan Alecia said:

@Nthnl Because humans can feel emotions. If you don't respect or acknowledge that, there's bound to be consequences, one way or another. 

Its not inherently wrong to make people feel bad emotions if good and evil, right or wrong are illusions

[Megan Alecia]

@Nthnl It being an illusion cannot be comprehended in regular life. Perhaps it is an illusion intrinsically but we don't react to events like that. We see them as they appear, and they affect us in a way that I suppose only our emotional selves really understand. That's why people cry at funerals, panick during times of crisis, feel fear or anger, etc. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Megan Alecia

[Nthnl]

Just now, Megan Alecia said:

@Nthnl It being an illusion cannot be comprehended in regular life. Perhaps it is an illusion intrinsically but we don't react to events like that. We see them as they appear, and they affect us in a way that I suppose only our emotional selves really understand. That's why people cry at funerals, panick during times of crisis, etc. 

Usually yes the average human reacts directly to what they experience through the narrow lenses were given by default. But It wouldn't negatively affect me if i thought i wasn't doing wrong. The only reason we feel bad about hurting others is because we believe it is wrong. So I cant seem to see any reason as to why these things inherently shouldn't be done. I want there to be one but with this elevated thinking im missing the point somewhere. 

[Preety_India]

Because we live in society by following moral standards and a code of ethics just like you browse on this forum by following the forum guidelines. 

Same way. 

And yes these moral standards are set in a way so that everyone gets a decent chance to live and don't end up getting killed like you mentioned. 

 

[Nthnl]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

Because we live in society by following moral standards and a code of ethics just like you browse on this forum by following the forum guidelines. 

Same way. 

And yes these moral standards are set in a way so that everyone gets a decent chance to live and don't end up getting killed like you mentioned. 

 

No i get why we do them. I get that since were raised in society we follow these rules. were taught to. But why is that right? why is societies moral code something we should follow when we come to the realization of illusion. That good and bad are not true. Why does everyone deserve a decent chance to live if its all an illusion

[Preety_India]

@Nthnl SURVIVAL 

SURVIVAL AIN'T ANY ILLUSION. 

 

[commie]

8 minutes ago, Nthnl said:

The only reason we feel bad about hurting others is because we believe it is wrong.

I don't believe that and I feel bad anyway.

8 minutes ago, Nthnl said:

So I cant seem to see any reason as to why these things inherently shouldn't be done. I want there to be one but with this elevated thinking im missing the point somewhere. 

The problem is that you're looking for a reason. This "elevated thinking" may not be for you. Certainly your rendition isn't for me.

I recommend you try the five precepts or something until you figure this out.

Edited October 25, 2020 by commie

[Nthnl]

2 minutes ago, commie said:

I don't believe that and I feel bad anyway.

The problem is that you're looking for a reason. This "elevated thinking" may not be for you. Certainly your rendition isn't for me.

I recommend you try the five precepts or something until you figure this out.

Why is looking for a reason a problem. 

[Nthnl]

4 minutes ago, commie said:

I don't believe that and I feel bad anyway.

The problem is that you're looking for a reason. This "elevated thinking" may not be for you. Certainly your rendition isn't for me.

I recommend you try the five precepts or something until you figure this out.

I know the 5 precepts i studied buddhism for some time. But why are those true? If everything is an illusion, what does it matter.

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, Nthnl said:

what i should and shouldn't do.

That's exactly the problem. You want to turn Goodness into a dumb mechanical process, but it cannot ever be that because Goodness is Infinite Consciousness/Intelligence.

Goodness, Consciousness, Intelligence, Love, Truth, and Infinity cannot ever be formalized into any finite system of rules or methods.

Which means...

If you want to be Good, you must constantly be conscious in every situation. You cannot coast your way there. If you try to create a formal mechanical method for Goodness, you will instead create evil.

So what you are asking is how to create evil. Which all the religions have done. A religion is a mechanical method for reaching Goodness. Which is actually evil.

The whole point of being Good is that there is absolutely no reason why you can't or shouldn't kill a basket of puppies. And yet you choose not to. Which makes you Good.

[Nthnl]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

That's exactly the problem. You want to turn Goodness into a dumb mechanical process, but it cannot ever be that because Goodness is Infinite Consciousness/Intelligence.

Goodness, Consciousness, Intelligence, Love, Truth, and Infinity camnot ever be formalized into any finite system of rules or methods.

Which means...

If you want to be Good, you must constantly be conscious in every situation. You cannot coast your way there. If you try to create formal mechanicla method for Goodness, you will instead create evil.

So what you are asking is how to create evil.

Thank you, your wisdom is always appreciated. I'm not necessarily trying to create a formal mechanical process to follow. Its very hard to express in words exactly what i mean to ask but despite my difficulties you've answered in an incredibly helpful way. 

[Leo Gura]

@Nthnl You say that, but it sounds to me like you ARE trying to create that method without being aware of what you are doing.

[commie]

5 minutes ago, Nthnl said:

I know the 5 precepts i studied buddhism for some time. But why are those true? If everything is an illusion, what does it matter.

The basic precepts will help you stay out of trouble. By pretending you believe something like that, you reduce the chances you will be branded a psycho and dealt with accordingly.

5 minutes ago, Nthnl said:

Why is looking for a reason a problem. 

Because this isn't about reasons.

[Nthnl]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Nthnl You say that, but it sounds to me like you ARE trying to create that method without being aware of what you are doing.

You could be right, although not my intention. Ill try to tread carefully, thanks.

[Nthnl]

6 minutes ago, commie said:

The basic precepts will help you stay out of trouble. By pretending you believe something like that, you reduce the chances you will be branded a psycho and dealt with accordingly.

Because this isn't about reasons.

I see what your saying. I'm not really explaining myself as well as I hoped but thanks for your addition. And true the 5 precepts certainly will keep you out of trouble societally.

[commie]

Sorry but I didn't want to spent half an hour waxing lyrical about what I guessed you were really asking. Maybe try to explain yourself better so that giving a more detailed answer wouldn't feel like such a crapshoot. You might even learn something about yourself or language by exercising your explanatory abilities.

[Nthnl]

3 minutes ago, commie said:

Sorry but I didn't want to spent half an hour waxing lyrical about what I guessed you were really asking. Maybe try to explain yourself better so that giving a more detailed answer wouldn't feel like such a crapshoot. You might even learn something about yourself or language by exercising your explanatory abilities.

I didn't ask you to spend half an hour waxing lyrical about what you guessed I were really asking. I feel I'm usually pretty good at explaining myself but these topics aren't simple. Most things are just understandings and concepts that are difficult to express linguistically. If they can be at all. I'm sorry you had trouble understanding what I meant.