Why shouldn't I kill someone, steal something, etc.

[Shin]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

Revenge feels good, even though a lot of times it could be stemming from a simple misunderstanding. A lot of our feelings actually stem from simple misunderstandings too. So how can you say such things?

 

You may feel alive, but you don't feel good.

When you're unconscious you don't know the difference, you're too numbed from your emotions to know.

[Gesundheit]

Just now, Shin said:

You may feel alive, but you don't feel good.

When you're unconscious you don't know the difference, you're too numbed from your emotions to know.

Projection of the month ??

[Claymoree]

Keep it up , you are close to convincing each other, just a bit more. 

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

My point is still not getting across. Yes, all of that is right and everything. But I'm not asking "why?". I'm asking "what?". What is it that makes something "good" and another "bad"? And by "what" here, I don't want you to tell me that it's the ego. Yes, it is the ego. But what are the ego's justifications for making those judgements? What is it exactly that defines good and bad for the ego? What does the ego use to discriminate? And on what basis? I know it's survival. But how does the ego know what will survive it? And on what basis? You see what I'm saying? This is a very deep and advanced inquiry, and you may not come out the same person afterwards.

@Gesundheit memory and anticipation for the future.   

[Shin]

10 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Projection of the month ??

Maybe, but just try it then

Be angry and want revenge to someone, and see how you feel.

I bet my left nuts you won't feel good at all if you pay close attention

[Gesundheit]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Gesundheit memory and anticipation for the future.   

Good answer, and it's worthy of more digging. The ego grounds itself in memory and anticipation of future. But the ego is limited and only knows very little compared to infinity. Very little means close to nothing. So the ego is in fact betting its life on nothing, yet it thinks it's betting on everything. I'll leave it here if you want to continue on your own.

5 minutes ago, Shin said:

Maybe, but just try it then

Be angry and want revenge to someone, and see how you feel.

I bet my left nuts you won't feel good at all if you pay close attention

You lost because in that case it would feel good to not pay close attention.

Pay, now.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Someone here]

12 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Good answer, and it's worthy of more digging. The ego grounds itself in memory and anticipation of future. But the ego is limited and only knows very little compared to infinity. Very little means close to nothing. So the ego is in fact betting its life on nothing, yet it thinks it's betting on everything. I'll leave it here if you want to continue on your own.

 

@Gesundheit what infinity that you only know a sliver of?  This sliver that you are betting your life on is all that you know therefore all that exists for you.. that's why you are betting your life on it.  

[Leo Gura]

Good and bad are always relative to the ego's survival.

Ego's death = bad

Ego's survival = good

Devilry 101

[somegirl]

Do we feel bad for lying, stealing, killing because we will be judged by the society, or because it just feels bad? What if you and X person are the only people on the world and you kill him. There is noone to judge you. Would you feel bad? If you're not psycho, you would, I assume. But why? My guess is that, by killing someone else, you are also hurting yourself in an indirect way. Because everything is one and everything is connected. That person is you. And you killed him. So you suffer... Only my guess. I'm aware it's not probably that simple, but maybe I'm somewhat closer to the truth 

[AtheisticNonduality]

@Nthnl Because that's not as loving and thus not as good.

[Thewritersunion]

When I look at this question from a Teal Spiral Dynamic perspective all I can find is this:

 

 Everything is One at the end of the day and will eventually meet another once again. So if you have a problem with that, solve it now, for it’ll probably come back up again, and you can deal at it in a health, higher-conscious way. 

[Gesundheit]

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Gesundheit what infinity that you only know a sliver of?  This sliver that you are betting your life on is all that you know therefore all that exists for you.. that's why you are betting your life on it.  

And that's exactly the problem. The ego is grounded in the fear of not-knowing, and the whole trick is to create an illusion of knowing.

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Good and bad are always relative to the ego's survival.

Ego's death = bad

Ego's survival = good

Devilry 101

Not good enough. Let alone not accurate at all, at least from my experience. The best moments in my life have always been the moments that I discover truths about myself and my self-deceptions. But back to "not good enough", because it's very superficial understanding that is still grounded in the ego which is the object of the questioning in the first place. How are you ever gonna break out of the ego with more ego? See it doesn't work like that. You have to examine exactly how the ego is constructed and how it values different things and on what basis, and then question all of those. You have to watch the ego creating and grounding itself right in every moment to see how it is tricking you. At some point, it will become naked and groundless to even think a thought about reality. It all will become a cosmic joke how the trick is being played on you before your eyes. It's not hard though. It just takes acute awareness.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, somegirl said:

Do we feel bad for lying, stealing, killing because we will be judged by the society, or because it just feels bad? What if you and X person are the only people on the world and you kill him. There is noone to judge you. Would you feel bad? If you're not psycho, you would, I assume. But why? My guess is that, by killing someone else, you are also hurting yourself in an indirect way. Because everything is one and everything is connected. That person is you. And you killed him. So you suffer... Only my guess. I'm aware it's not probably that simple, but maybe I'm somewhat closer to the truth 

You wouldn't feel bad unless you'd think about it. Even if you'd experience pain or physical illness, it wouldn't feel bad unless you think about it.

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Thewritersunion said:

When I look at this question from a Teal Spiral Dynamic perspective all I can find is this:

 

 Everything is One at the end of the day and will eventually meet another once again. So if you have a problem with that, solve it now, for it’ll probably come back up again, and you can deal at it in a health, higher-conscious way. 

Or don't, for it will not make any difference at all.

[Shin]

3 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

You wouldn't feel bad unless you'd think about it. Even if you'd experience pain or physical illness, it wouldn't feel bad unless you think about it.

Well at some point you gotta think about it, unless you're a sociopath or a vegetable.

[Gesundheit]

2 minutes ago, Shin said:

Well at some point you gotta think about it, unless you're a sociopath or a vegetable.

Which is exactly what makes you a devil, devil. (sorry for pulling a Leo ?)

[Roy]

@Nthnl Well, ignoring all the endless circular intellectual/conceptual talk about if it's "right" or "wrong" for a second -

If you were to murder someone, what do you think you would feel? How do imagine it would make you feel? Probably shitty right? Do you imagine you would you hesitate before or during the act? Scared you would get caught? Fear that it would damage your mental health? Resentment, guilt? That tight feeling your throat?

All of these deeper feelings (aka Truth) are signs and signals from and to the universe (you) is/are possibly moving towards something not that you "should" or "shouldn't" be doing, but a potential filled with suffering. Not just for yourself but others as well.

Conversely you are probably thinking, "Well what if I was in poverty and I need to kill someone?! I need to take their stuff to survive!", or "It might make me feel good to kill my wife because she cheated me that whore!"

See all those are just surface rationalizations, and thought stories. They aren't real feeling, because if a person were to be honest enough to self-reflect past their own biases (which they aren't in most cases unfortunately) they'd see all the signals and inner resistances. Once faced with those "truths" it simply wouldn't be possible to murder. Not because it's right or wrong, but because it's simply moving the universe towards a worse potential of suffering. Now a deranged person or sick psychopath who can't tap into that "feeling" doesn't disavow any of this, it just means they are unfortunately filled with ignorance by luck of bad genetics or a shitty childhood/environment. There is no evil, there is just ignorance about the potential way things "could" be in the universe, that ignorance leads to suffering.

Suffering is an inherent "negative" let's say, which I hate to even use that word here but it's accurate for now until a replacement comes along. Why is it an inherent negative? Well aside from the obvious intellectual conversation, more importantly what does your first person experience and intuition say? There you go. That's all you need to know and embody.

All of this information is courtesy of God Emperor King @Nahm a really cool guy on these forums. He can articulate this stuff better than me.

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Roy

[Osaid]

Killing and stealing is highly selfish behavior which perpetuates the ego and in turn creates suffering

The thing is, the more conscious you become of reality the less incentive you have to do such things, because you see through the façade of needing to do them

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Osaid

[Gesundheit]

13 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Killing and stealing is highly selfish behavior which perpetuates the ego and in turn creates suffering

The thing is, the more conscious you become of reality the less incentive you have to do such things, because you see through the façade of needing to do them

 

What if it's a life or death situation? Will stealing (let's ignore killing for now) be justified then? For example, if a poor man is hungry and can't afford food. Is it okay for him to steal from a rich supermarket?

[Thewritersunion]

I think this contemplation belongs in a private journal and not a public forum. It’s just worse in public stuff imo.