Rant: You need friends

[Eph75]

@Thestarguitarist14 - @Akemrelax is talking about avoiding problems in relationships [or lack thereof] that causes suffering by adopting the belief that friends are not needed. This would be a coping skill and hence self-deception. 

This is of course not the same as the growing of understanding for ones relational needs so that the pathological aspects can be overcome and the real/basic need can be exposed and understood. 

These two aspects are both valid. 

The problem is that the individuals that have adopted these kind of beliefs as a coping skill don't have the awareness to see the pathology in their ways of doing so.

By sending out the message that there is no need for friends, to them, it is not helpful, as they will have to face their problem rather than run away from it. This leaves them at status quo. 

Two hypothetical questions that arises are;

Does the dogmatic no-need-for-friends preacher lack the understanding of these nuances?

Might that preacher be someone that is subjected to self-deception and in denial of ones own deficiency need?

Edited October 28, 2020 by Eph75

[Thestarguitarist14]

51 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

@Thestarguitarist14 - @Akemrelax is talking about avoiding problems in relationships [or lack thereof] that causes suffering by adopting the belief that friends are not needed. This would be a coping skill and hence self-deception. 

This is of course not the same as the growing of understanding for ones relational needs so that the pathological aspects can be overcome and the real/basic need can be exposed and understood. 

These two aspects are both valid. 

The problem is that the individuals that have adopted these kind of beliefs as a coping skill don't have the awareness to see the pathology in their ways of doing so.

By sending out the message that there is no need for friends, to them, it is not helpful, as they will have to face their problem rather than run away from it. This leaves them at status quo. 

Two hypothetical questions that arises are;

Does the dogmatic no-need-for-friends preacher lack the understanding of these nuances?

Might that preacher be someone that is subjected to self-deception and in denial of ones own deficiency need?

True.  To quote Elliott Smith:

He's so unhappy inside
He's serious with everyone
And he thinks he'll win you with his angry kiss
Acting like he has no needs
Wanting you to watch him bleed 

Some people do act like that.  With or without spirituality and that is certainly a self deception.  

In a way, saying that there is no need for friends in a nuanced thought.  When I say it I am saying it from a spiritual/egoless stance.  I am sure there are people who will at that and just do the same thing, even though what they really desire are friends.

That is why it is important for everyone to follow their north node.  Some people are at that lower stage where they need to drink, smoke weed and okay video games with friends.  Some people like myself have been there and done that and are more focused on themselves and their impact on the world.

I just don’t care for people acting as if friendships are the answer to your problem.  Or relationships for that matter.  In fact, friendships and relationships will give you more problems.

To quote Elliott Smith one more time, there is where I’m at: 

Why would you want any other?  When you’re a world within a world?

Edited October 28, 2020 by Thestarguitarist14

[ivory]

10 hours ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

You do realize that there are levels past Green right?  

Of course I do. However, at green you become hyper aware of the causes of suffering and finally begin focusing on everyday enjoyment. In contrast, orange suffers immensely because they believe that happiness can only found in the future. I can't say this is universal, but in my personal experience, the unhealthy preoccupation with personal growth drops away as you settle into a predominant mode of enjoyment. The value for growth doesn't take a back seat, but your expectations are tempered with realism. And, while yellow sounds cool, I know that I have little control over progress and the transition will happen in due time. I am in no hurry. That said, as you settle into green, you do become aware of yellow flavored modes of thought. I think that a healthy green would be humble an honest enough to admit that they far less mature than those such as Noam Chomsky. Yellow is a serious claim of attainment and I would be very wary of those who think they are on that level.,

[Thestarguitarist14]

34 minutes ago, ivory said:

Of course I do. However, at green you become hyper aware of the causes of suffering and finally begin focusing on everyday enjoyment. In contrast, orange suffers immensely because they believe that happiness can only found in the future. I can't say this is universal, but in my personal experience, the unhealthy preoccupation with personal growth drops away as you settle into a predominant mode of enjoyment. The value for growth doesn't take a back seat, but your expectations are tempered with realism. And, while yellow sounds cool, I know that I have little control over progress and the transition will happen in due time. I am in no hurry. That said, as you settle into green, you do become aware of yellow flavored modes of thought. I think that a healthy green would be humble an honest enough to admit that they far less mature than those such as Noam Chomsky. Yellow is a serious claim of attainment and I would be very wary of those who think they are on that level.,

You sound less like someone who actually embodies Green and more like a normie who still wants love and acceptance from other people.

[Eph75]

5 hours ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

I just don’t care for people acting as if friendships are the answer to your problem.

And also that is a nuance of the whole, that will need to be taking into account when dealing with self-deception and growth.

That very answer can equally so be a coping skill to avoid facing ones needs to grow in certain areas, becoming overly dependent on relationships and hence not understanding and moving past ones actual belonging needs and also to degrees ones esteem needs. 

The result could be an exacerbated need of, and leaning on relatipnships and friends. This could also be justified by being "green", forgetting that mental illness/pathology, which such deficiency needs are interwaeved with, exists regardless of SD state. 

The same questions as stated in the previous post also applies here, turning them around towards preaching for need-for-friends. 

This also shifts focus onto this being all about perceptions/perspectives and when we turn to self-deception, which is the meta to take away from it all, and is where growth of ones own understanding lies, regardless of state.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Eph75

[Eph75]

3 hours ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

The value for growth doesn't take a back seat, but your expectations are tempered with realism. And, while yellow sounds cool, I know that I have little control over progress and the transition will happen in due time.

@ivory the above quote is your, not sure why the forum quote function switched to it being else 

Yes, and yet, growth can be triggered and accelerated by stretching ones mind upwards into new territory in a deliberate fashion, to [peak] experience and bring back apects for reference, graduately making the unknown more known, adopting behaviors thereof, and equally letting go of the comfort and certainty of what was already known.

This can be done by directly allowing to stretch ones beliefs and values to see what is beyond, or, by detaching from emotional attachment to current beliefs, so that we better allow ourself to flow with growth through acceptance of the existence and validity of other perspectives.

A combination is of course what is most likely but further up the stages, 2nd tier, green-yellow transition, this is more deliberately so, and not just happenstance sprung from opportunistic growth. 

You can fully enjoy each stage, imagine what the indulgence that is organge enjoyment can look like, when in flow, high on dopamine and serotonin, and with the sense of being unstoppable, life is great. Or worse, imagine a caricaturistic red and the high/enjoyment of the power trips of the controlling soul, tripping on the suffering of others. Or, the healtier aspects found in green, e.g. the strong sense of belongingness with others. 

What they all have in common is a myopic view that "this is it", and thereby a feeling of the others aspects being, in a sense, invalid.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Eph75

[Akemrelax]

@Eph75 Yes, you summarized my point well. We have to be nuanced here, it’s not a binary either/or. In addition to that, not making any friends is not a strategically wise decision. It’s short sighted and bad advice.

Are we really going to tell high school and college students to not make friends? Regardless of whether they “need” them or not, it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity. That’s a huge part of learning and growing, you’ll never have those experiences again. What if this “I don’t need friends” attitude is a one time thing? What if you regret it later? What about when you get old? Are you overestimating your abilities? People who say they don’t need friends might end up like the guy who goes to Himalayas to meditate but dies two days later. We need to think strategical about these things, it can easily become a massive blunder.

I would add that this attitude of “I don’t need anybody, other people are a waste of time, and I only have transactional, business relations” is stage orange attitude. Stage orange does not know any other relationships other than transactional ones. There’s nothing wrong with these relationships but there are much more fulfilling relationships out there. Stage orange wants to be independent, but really they’re being arrogant and don’t know what they’re missing.

 Also, we don’t need to deny our humanity to be spiritual. I think most self actualizers want a life filled with a variety of experiences, success, and quality relations. Letting go of everything is not for everyone, people want to enjoy their material existence while it lasts. 

[Eph75]

@Akemrelax Yes, I think this is coming from astrong sense of having had and wanting to share realizations so that others can adopt what oneself have understood and therefor skip/end "unnecessary suffering" .

Development is at large linear/sequential and parts rejected or skipped will create shadow aspects that will hinder that very development at a later stage.

In that sense, we need to run the course of it, and learn from it through first hand experience.

Help in navigation at the point of each stage of that development, in a certain and deliberately packaged format, can still help reduce the suffering and to not get stuck for too long.

Although, such help assumes an extraordinary awareness, understanding, experience and ability of communicating in an effective manner towards whatever stage of develoment the reciever is at.

[ivory]

3 hours ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

You sound less like someone who actually embodies Green and more like a normie who still wants love and acceptance from other people.

I don't think you're being honest. You're not the only one who's been triggered here. 

That said, I'm not here to ruffle feathers. I'm friendly, and I prefer to banter and play, but I am also challenging and I will call your ass out.

Love me or hate me I appreciate your perspective.

[ivory]

31 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

You can fully enjoy each stage

Fo' shizzle dizzle!

31 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

What they all have in common is a myopic view that "this is it", and thereby a feeling of the others aspects being in a sense invalid.

It's really interesting to see that now. I was just hanging out with a guy from Ethiopia and was complaining about society. He claims that people today no longer share "universal" values such as honesty, compassion, and community. I bit my lip, but I get why he'd expect others to share the same perspective.

25 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

 Also, we don’t need to deny our humanity to be spiritual. I think most self actualizers want a life filled with a variety of experiences, success, and quality relations. Letting go of everything is not for everyone, people want to enjoy their material existence while it lasts. 

I want to a harem where hot babes in bikinis give me back rubs and feed me grapes. I don't think that's asking too much.

[Eph75]

??

[7thLetter]

@ivory

 

21 hours ago, ivory said:

I understand now that you are referring to formal meditation and inquiry. You are definitely not wrong about that.

The disconnect we have is because we use the terms "growth", "spirituality", and "practice" quite differently. I make no distinction between "ordinary life" and "spiritual life". My teachers made sure that the students really understood this. We were taught that true practice includes the difficulties we instinctively avoid as well as the emotions we don't want to feel. We also taught to practice in every waking moment, in all situations, including relationship.

I actually hear this quite a bit, where people basically say things along the lines of "There's no right or wrong way to do Spirituality. Spirituality is right here right now. Spirituality includes all experiences of life." Okay sure, let's say every experience in life is a Spiritual one. But my argument/question to that is, so if I did heroin/meth everyday that's also a Spiritual practice? Doing heroin/meth everyday is not a "wrong" way to do Spirituality? What about the people who live an average life, those who wake up at 8AM, take the train to get to their 9-5 job, pay the bills, on repeat. Are they growing spiritually? Under the assumption that EVERY experience is a spiritual one, where do you draw the line between healthy experiences & unhealthy experiences?

I'm a big believer in the idea that there's certain activities that "lower your vibration" and ones that "increase your vibration." Its pretty obvious which activities/habits lower/increase your vibration. Its basically understanding healthy & unhealthy habits. Watching TV, lowers your vibration. meditation, increases your vibration, and so on. So with that being said, shouldn't we stay away from the unhealthy habits and do the things that increase our vibration in order to grow spiritually? That's the "right" way to practice Spirituality right. But I'm not saying having friends is "lower vibration," of course like you mentioned in the first part of the thread, there's different types of friends that can be beneficial or non-beneficial to your life.

21 hours ago, ivory said:

Leo's ego is somewhat wrapped up in his lone wolf identity. I've seen him glorify the lone wolf lifestyle and I just find it irresponsible. Most people don't do well in isolation. The lone wolves of this forum suffer from loneliness and confusion as you can see here in a quick forum search. Many seem to believe that isolation is required to reach higher states of consciousness or achieve "advanced" levels of development. Thankfully, Leo does debunks those ideas here and here. Hopefully more people will see this.

Okay there we go. Leo says it depends on the person, just like what I was saying earlier with the different personality types. Some people are introverted, some are extroverted.

I want to include @Akemrelax in this part of this post too, because he replied to what I said to you, basically saying the same thing. Talking about how isolated people feel depressed, but they won't admit it. How can you guys be so sure that the depression is linked to, and is the result of not having friends? I'll admit I don't have a clear answer to this, I think this is something that could perhaps be studied by psychologists.

@Akemrelax Your post makes it seem like you feel personally attacked by the fact that I'm saying "I think its true that you can transcend a need for friends but it needs to come naturally" based on your tone. You need to akem..RELAX, hahah. I'm just saying how I personally feel, and I'm the type of person who is blunt, and who will admit all my wrongs/mistakes. No I'm not a depressed isolated dude with addictions, why does it seem like you're attacking me, you don't even know me. I GENUINELY FEEL that I don't NEED friends. I'm not isolated, I have a few close friends that I don't NEED to hang out with, but I choose to hang out with them when I want to. I live with my parents and siblings, and I have a strong urge to move out very soon. What I genuinely feel (most of the time) is that family is an illusion, and sometimes I just want to remove myself from this family, let us all forget about each other, move to another city/country and just live my own life. I will admit to you, I do feel a strong need/craving for an intimate relationship because I've never experienced one before. I'm good at making friends, but not so much at attracting the opposite sex. You say that people won't admit they're lonely, yes I admit I feel lonely because of a lack of intimate relationships, but not because a lack of friendships. Friendships don't mean much to me at this point. Most of the friends I've had don't intellectually connect with me at a level that I desire, and that can be a bit frustrating for me.

21 hours ago, ivory said:

I'm not sure about you, but spiritual practice for me reduces suffering while maximizing enjoyment and a sense of meaning. Isolating in a cave is going to have a very different effect. I'm not saying that we won't grow or develop at all, but will not be nearly as developed as the average member of society. Society makes us grow.

Personally, I feel that the more spiritual practice I do, the more I feel the need to isolate myself or withdraw from others. When I was in a phase of constant 20-50min/per day meditation, strong urge to withdraw. When I had my last LSD trip, experienced ego death for the first time, days after the trip, another strong desire to withdraw from others, and my urge to move out of my parents place was even stronger. And because of this I actually sometimes avoid spiritual practices until later because I'm still young and I feel that I want to experience intimate relationships. If I withdraw from social situations then that won't help me attract a female.

21 hours ago, ivory said:

I'm not sure what you suggest I may be denying. I understand that spirituality requires sacrifice, it's hard work. We need to carve out some extra time for formal practice, but letting go means letting go of the things that aren't in alignment with our values.

I was under the assumption that you were denying the fact that you need to sacrifice friends in order to grow spiritually so you created an entire rant.

22 hours ago, ivory said:

I wouldn't say that I'm woke, but I am very well established in the Green value system. In fact, two years ago, I began my transition from Orange to Green which is document in this post: here. It's sort of interesting to see how it all started with my discovery of SD and understanding that I needed to shift into Green at that particular tine in my life.

If you're into SD you'll recall that each stage transcends and includes the one prior. So at Yellow, you transcend the unhealthy manifestations of Green and include the healthy ones. That means spiritual growth beyond Green does not mean you cut off your friends! That said, may no longer live in a hippie commune at Yellow, but you're not living in isolation in a cave either.

Okay so this thread comes mainly from the perspective of how a person with "Green" values would think, rather than how it is for all of us, wouldn't you say?

Interesting. And I didn't say anything about cutting off friends, but I was suggesting that its something that might come naturally. Sure Yellow doesn't mean you're a lone wolf, but it also doesn't mean you have a lot of friends either, it really depends on the person. But in my opinion they can lean more towards the lone wolf side because its back to the focus of "self" rather than "other." Plus an unhealthy manifestation of Yellow is that it "can seem cold and distant, forget to connect with people (because of its enthusiasm)."  Taken from: https://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/yellow/ So I think that's where a lot of people get the idea that Yellow is a lone wolf. This is all it says on the site, I think it has much to do with its level of complex thinking. I personally feel that I operate under a good chunk of the Yellow value system, but mainly I'd say I'm Orange, so a lot of what I'm saying comes from my personal experience. I personally desire more complex intellectual conversations on the topics of philosophy, spirituality, & psychology, but most people don't bring that to the table so I'm quite selective with who I let into my life. This could be a Yellow thing, or it could be a personality INTP thing, I'm not sure, sometimes it can be hard to make the distinction.

[ivory]

 

46 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

I actually hear this quite a bit, where people basically say things along the lines of "There's no right or wrong way to do Spirituality. Spirituality is right here right now. Spirituality includes all experiences of life." Okay sure, let's say every experience in life is a Spiritual one. But my argument/question to that is, so if I did heroin/meth everyday that's also a Spiritual practice? Doing heroin/meth everyday is not a "wrong" way to do Spirituality? What about the people who live an average life, those who wake up at 8AM, take the train to get to their 9-5 job, pay the bills, on repeat. Are they growing spiritually? Under the assumption that EVERY experience is a spiritual one, where do you draw the line between healthy experiences & unhealthy experiences?

Yeah this is why I'm not a fan of the word "spiritual". I like "authentic" because there's less room for interpretation and "healthy" and "unhealthy" adjectives are also quite helpful. I would also include an awareness component. Let's just say that if you're truly on the path you strive to live a healthy, authentic lifestyle with conscious effort. It's not perfect, I'm sure others could come up with a more concise definition.

 

46 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

Personally, I feel that the more spiritual practice I do, the more I feel the need to isolate myself or withdraw from others.

This is how it is now,. Desires change, future uncertain.

46 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

I was under the assumption that you were denying the fact that you need to sacrifice friends in order to grow spiritually so you created an entire rant.

What are you talking about? What does it mean to grow spiritually? The wrong friends will hold you back, and the right friends will make you grow. I'm not denying any facts. I have yet to be presented any facts. 

46 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

Okay so this thread comes mainly from the perspective of how a person with "Green" values would think, rather than how it is for all of us, wouldn't you say?

This thread is for those who are denying their basic human needs. Green, pink, purple, whatever.

 

46 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

I personally desire more complex intellectual conversations on the topics of philosophy, spirituality, & psychology, but most people don't bring that to the table so I'm quite selective with who I let into my life. This could be a Yellow thing, or it could be a personality INTP thing, I'm not sure, sometimes it can be hard to make the distinction.

I can relate. I'm an INFJ. Some of this is an introverted characteristic. Some of this is specific to the spiritual practitioner. Many isolate. Some learn to accept and adapt. Others seek out more compatible friends.

[Thestarguitarist14]

8 hours ago, ivory said:

I don't think you're being honest. You're not the only one who's been triggered here. 

That said, I'm not here to ruffle feathers. I'm friendly, and I prefer to banter and play, but I am also challenging and I will call your ass out.

Love me or hate me I appreciate your perspective.

Not triggered at all.  Just calling it like I see it.  There is a difference.

[Thestarguitarist14]

11 hours ago, Eph75 said:

And also that is a nuance of the whole, that will need to be taking into account when dealing with self-deception and growth.

That very answer can equally so be a coping skill to avoid facing ones needs to grow in certain areas, becoming overly dependent on relationships and hence not understanding and moving past ones actual belonging needs and also to degrees ones esteem needs. 

The result could be an exacerbated need of, and leaning on relatipnships and friends. This could also be justified by being "green", forgetting that mental illness/pathology, which such deficiency needs are interwaeved with, exists regardless of SD state. 

The same questions as stated in the previous post also applies here, turning them around towards preaching for need-for-friends. 

This also shifts focus onto this being all about perceptions/perspectives and when we turn to self-deception, which is the meta to take away from it all, and is where growth of ones own understanding lies, regardless of state.

A lot of people find solace in being in a group.  We are by nature tribal after all.  It is safer, there is a loss of identity.  

I have looked back at my past friendships and relationships and have also realized that due to my own dysfunctions I was attracting these kinds of people in the first place.  Which goes back to what I was saying how we all have bad inside of us which is why people clash.

You know, I find a lot of these people who claim to be green as fake.  I remember that I was in an acting class and this female teacher basically was posturing as this highly advanced green person.  At the time I was more orange and had gone through some issues.  Anyway, she was forcing me to do these melodramatic lame scenes in hopes that I would conform to her way of thinking.  She even got very angry and yelled at me a few times when it was becoming clear that I was not interested.  I had to put my foot down and make it clear that I was not into what she had to offer.  Looking back, she was a false prophet.  She just wanted me to be able “love” (funny joe people will use that for devilry) and shit so that I would have been easier to deal with.  She did not care about me at all.  These are delusions that people stuck in green have.

I believe that when it boils down to it we all must value the relationship that we have with ourselves first and foremost.  We must come first.  When you do that usually you realize that you don’t need anyone.  Funny, the less I desire friends, the more friendlier people are to me and the better interactions I have.  I imagine it is because independence and boundaries comes from self love and self love is attractive.

Also, when you are diving deep into spirituality or even just trying to achieve success, friends are a luxury.  When you look at the lives of truly spiritual people or successful people they do not have many if any friends.  I look at someone like Haruki Murakami who is quite spiritual and successful.  He and his wife have been living a closed off lifestyle since his thirties.  He is not concerned about having friends.  Just himself, his wife and his craft.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Thestarguitarist14

[RendHeaven]

@Thestarguitarist14 You make good points.

According to Leo, stage Yellow does indeed have a "lone wolf" attitude.

Solitude is my default as well. I resonate with your view very personally.

I generally find friends to be a distraction, many are inauthentic (especially at my age pfftt), and exploring loneliness is most healing for me personally.

That being said, I do recognize that having a band of mature, high quality friends is an experience I've never had - and it's something that I would like to try some day.

[Thestarguitarist14]

25 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

@Thestarguitarist14 You make good points.

According to Leo, stage Yellow does indeed have a "lone wolf" attitude.

Solitude is my default as well. I resonate with your view very personally.

I generally find friends to be a distraction, many are inauthentic (especially at my age pfftt), and exploring loneliness is most healing for me personally.

That being said, I do recognize that having a band of mature, high quality friends is an experience I've never had - and it's something that I would like to try some day.

I have found that to be true.  Before I began to truly embody stage yellow I loved partying it up every weekend (I would go to raves, bars, clubs, drink and smoke weed with friends) and I was heavily focused on my friendships.  Then after this woman who I was seeing royally screwed me over, the pandemic happening, my awakening and me seeing my friends for who they are, I realized that they were dragging my emotional state down.

Funny that you mentioned friends being a distraction.  During the pandemic I have been super productive both in both spiritual and physical realms.  I asked myself what changed.  I took my focus off of other people and put it on myself.

While I wouldn’t say that I personally feel too much loneliness, I do enjoy learning about my “darkness” and doing shadow work.  I believe the biggest moments of growth that I have had have been all alone. I believe that a big part of growing up is to realize that no one or nothing can fulfill you.  That this is an inside job.

You also mentioned having a high quality group of friends.  I find that the way to go about that is to not worry about it.  Focus on yourself.  The more you love and accept yourself the more attractive you become.  You’ll want nothing to do with immature people and only focus on people who are on your level so to speak.  It’s funny how the less you want or need something the more it comes to you.

[Akemrelax]

@7thLetter I did not attack you. I was generally making a point. Lonely people don't admit that they're lonely, just as depressed people don't always admit they're depressed. On the contrary, they'll get angry and start attacking others for being weak for having friends. Transcending your need to socialize is a tall claim, I don't buy it if they're ranting and arguing about it on the forum (don't mean you) or claiming they're alone cause everyone sucks. That's not something someone who transcended their needs would do. They might be using the internet or the forum as a coping mechanism for loneliness. Again, this is just my opinion. I don't mean you or anyone in particular, I think keeping these points in mind can be helpful when talking about this topic. Whether or not "you" are lonely or not can only be decided by you, and frankly it's irrelevant to the discussion. 

A person may be using their isolation as a way to escape from society. In this case, counter-intuitively, they have a need for isolation. A person who has transcended their needs would be comfortable with people and in isolation. 

12 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

How can you guys be so sure that the depression is linked to, and is the result of not having friends? I'll admit I don't have a clear answer to this, I think this is something that could perhaps be studied by psychologists.

Depression can have multiple causes. Making friends can help people get out of depression for sure, that's basically how they get hikikomori's out of their bedrooms in some documentaries, they hire people to be their friends. 

There is point about being needy in friendships that needs to addressed, but you can still have friends without being needy. Regardless of whether you "need" friends, IMO you will miss out on some experiences if you chose no to have them and IMO it can be a strategic blunder in the long run.

This is a good video on loneliness, it has some links to academic studies as well like this one. This is good too.

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Akemrelax

[ivory]

8 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

According to Leo, stage Yellow does indeed have a "lone wolf" attitude.

I'd really like to see some evidence of this. I personally think that someone at yellow, or even healthy green, is equally content hanging with friends or in solitude. I have notice that there are times in my life where I am more solitudinous than others, but it has more to do with my interests and projects at the time rather than spiritual maturity.

Did you see this post from Leo?

8 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

That being said, I do recognize that having a band of mature, high quality friends is an experience I've never had - and it's something that I would like to try some day.

It takes time to accumulate a group of high quality friends but I highly recommend it. Most of my friends are introverts like myself so they deep and varying interests. We talk about spirituality, psychology, psychedelics, politics, health; and we go on adventures together. Luckily I live in a fairly diverse city so it's not too difficult to find like minded people.

[Thestarguitarist14]

1 hour ago, Akemrelax said:

Lonely people don't admit that they're lonely, just as depressed people don't always admit they're depressed. On the contrary, they'll get angry and start attacking others for being weak for having friends. Transcending your need to socialize is a tall claim, I don't buy it if they're ranting and arguing about it on the forum (don't mean you) or claiming they're alone cause everyone sucks. That's not something someone who transcended their needs would do. They might be using the internet or the forum as a coping mechanism for loneliness. Again, this is just my opinion.

 

 

This is a strong psychological projection. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Akemrelax said:

A person may be using their isolation as a way to escape from society. In this case, counter-intuitively, they have a need for isolation. A person who has transcended their needs would be comfortable with people and in isolation. 

 

Another psychological projection.  Whose to say that the person in question is not?  Look at many great filmmakers.  A lot of them are lone wolves.  Can can command huge movie sets with hundreds of people everyday for months and in some cases, years.

1 hour ago, Akemrelax said:

Regardless of whether you "need" friends, IMO you will miss out on some experiences if you chose no to have them and IMO it can be a strategic blunder in the long run.

 

 

There is nothing that anyone can give you thar has value.  Leo said this himself in the “how to stop caring about what other people think” episode.  One of my favorites of his.  People who have mindsets like this should revisit that episode.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Thestarguitarist14