Rant: You need friends

[Akemrelax]

2 hours ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

Your stance is rather arrogant and short sighted.

No! Are you kidding, your stance is the short sighted and arrogant one. What your saying won't work for majority of the people, and doesn't take into account all the missed opportunities that will come your way if you chose not to have friends, not just work opportunities mind you. 

2 hours ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

You are basically saying “well, it is too hard to do anything in the world on my own so I need friends to get things done.”

Strawman. That's one ridiculous strawman.

If you don't need to have friends, I don't care man. Just don't be surprise when you miss opportunities or want company when you get old but there is no one around. 

2 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

IDK it is difficult to make new friends the older you get.

That's why you got to be strategic about how to make the right kind of friends. There is a small window of opportunity, after that meeting people and making friends becomes extremely hard. 

[Thestarguitarist14]

9 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

No! Are you kidding, your stance is the short sighted and arrogant one. What your saying won't work for majority of the people, and doesn't take into account all the missed opportunities that will come your way if you chose not to have friends, not just work opportunities mind you. 

First off, I love how you ignored a bunch of points that I made.  You’re a champ.

Secondly, you would need to have friends in your industry who will be able to help you.  That almost never happens.  Look up “successful people” most of them did it on their own.  Sure, they met the right casting director, the right producer, the right investor, the right sponsor, etc.  However, those are business relationships.  
 

Also, it’s better to not intertwine friendships with business. 

 

13 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

Strawman. That's one ridiculous strawman.

If you don't need to have friends, I don't care man. Just don't be surprise when you miss opportunities or want company when you get old but there is no one around. 

 

Of course you said that.

Nobody needs friends.  You can have friends.  But you do not need them.  The only people who believe they do are not developed.

[Akemrelax]

31 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

First off, I love how you ignored a bunch of points that I made.  You’re a champ.

All your points are based on a strawman.

I said you won't just miss work opportunities, but of course you missed that part. But of course you will miss work opportunities too.

According to you, me saying, friends can help you = being lazy. Go read my posts again. I said most people need friends and even if you don't need friends they can be incredibly useful and amazing to have, not to mention if you chose not to have them it can be incredibly hard, if not impossible, to have them later in life. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thestarguitarist14]

3 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

All your points are based on a strawman.

I said you won't just miss work opportunities, but of course you missed that part. But of course you will miss work opportunities too.

According to you, me saying, friends can help you = being lazy. Go read my posts again. I said most people need friends and even if you don't need friends they can be incredibly useful and amazing to have, not to mention if you chose not to have them it can be incredibly hard, if not impossible, to have them later in life. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, you are still ignoring what I have said.

What about all the people who did just fine despite having no friends in their industry?
 

Tell me, what value have you gotten out of your current friends?  After my awakening I realized just how toxic those people were and cut them.  My productivity went up through the roof.  I wonder why?  

There is no intrinsic value in friendships or romantic relationships for that matter.  Though at least with romantic relationships you can have sex.

Side note: For fun I was listening to this analysis on that old cartoon show, rocket power (I am in the entertainment industry) it is funny how that show is centered around a brother and sister and their friends.  But their friendships is so toxic for the most part.  It appears to be more of out of convenience if anything.  It’s a 90s show so people back then had less emotional intelligence, particularly children, but it was interesting how that and other shows showed this meanness that these so called “friends” had with one another.

Most people are jerks.  You have to remember that.

 

 

[Akemrelax]

19 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

what value have you gotten out of your current friends?

You don't know the value of human relations? Don't you know of such a time when you have enjoyed a friend's company? Sure there were bad experiences, but these can be more fulfilling than success.

The biggest thing for me is having a connection with another person. Talking to them, understanding and sharing each other's experiences. Laughing and joking with them. Being part of a group of friends is itself rewarding. Other than that, I have cherished memories of spending time with friends. I played sports with my friends. My friends have helped me in doing school work. I have done projects with them that would have taken me hours if I chose to do them alone. They've helped me by lending me their stuff for free and giving me advice and information that would have taken me a long time to acquire. Having friends in your workplace just makes those interactions a lot more smoother, as opposed to if they were just my colleagues. My friends are not necessarily spiritual people, I just enjoy friendship itself. And if we include family with friends then they have helped so much I couldn't even tell you. Just the love and support. I wouldn't be where I am without my family and friends. My parents' friends have helped us so many times it's hard to remember all the moments, wouldn't be here without them either.

The point is not what I have gotten out of my friends, the point is why don't you see the intrinsic beauty in friendship? Human being are social creatures, we are designed to feel good when we are together. Society is based upon love between humans. You don't feel love and connection? Maybe you're stuck in stage orange. Notice the framing of the question, "what have you gotten out of your current friends?", as if they are suppose to pump out coins.

You work in Hollywood, so your life purpose must be to entertain people or to enrich their lives. Isn't it weird that you don't want to be friends with the same people you want to help/touch with your work? You have such low opinion of them... you call them "jerks", why even produce art for them?

38 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

What about all the people who did just fine despite having no friends in their industry?

They didn't make friends! Lol 

I mean, you can go through life living in poverty like those monks. 

Also, how do you know having friends wouldn't have helped them? What about all the people who got somewhere in part because of their friends? @Arcangeloabove literally said his friend saved his life. Lol

[7thLetter]

4 hours ago, ivory said:

Growth shows up in many forms. You can grow in relationship, career, hobbies, education, healthy, mindfulness, etc. The point is, regardless of circumstance, you can grow in at least one area. Part of authenticity is getting clear on what you value, and devoting time and energy to that. For some that may be relationships, or, it may be other things. Recall that each person has a different set of values at any given time, and there's nothing wrong with giving priority to one thing or another.

When I said what you just quoted, it was meant to be more of a rhetorical question. My point is, people are claiming that spiritual growth comes with becoming more of a “hermit” right, that’s what this whole thread is about.

So since we’re talking about giving priority to one thing, what I’m saying is that these people’s priority is spirituality. And from what most of us know, spiritual practices don’t require anything else other than yourself. So if working on themselves is their priority then they don’t need to allocate their time into friendships as much, or even at all. Only if they choose to.

I’m sure Leo talks about this in his videos. I think he talks about it in his “Lifestyle minimalism” video, so I would suggest you check that one out. So this idea of not needing friends could be coming from Leo, I mean he talks about it himself so.

And why do you think that monks decide to spend their whole lives by themselves meditating in a cave? Because they know the value of spiritual growth and how much time and work they need to put into meditation in order to reach certain levels of growth. They have no time for friends.

Correct me if I’m wrong but could this thread be a denial of a harsh truth? Spirituality or success in anything comes with sacrifices. Are you someone who feels a deep need for friends? Do you feel “woke” or spiritually grown to a certain extent but feel judged by other “spiritual” people because you have friends? If anyone tells you to cut off your friends to be more spiritual then do what you want not what they want. Let it come naturally. Cutting off friends doesn’t = 10x amount of spiritual growth. I think its true that you can transcend a need for friends but it needs to come naturally. And if you’re here writing a rant on this topic then you’re maybe not there yet, which is fine.

[Thestarguitarist14]

1 hour ago, Akemrelax said:

You don't know the value of human relations? Don't you know of such a time when you have enjoyed a friend's company? Sure there were bad experiences, but these can be more fulfilling than success.

 

I mean I just would get high and drunk or trip on psychedelics with my friends and have conversations.  There were fun times.  But cannot call it more fulfilling than success.  They do not pay my bills. 
 

1 hour ago, Akemrelax said:

 

The biggest thing for me is having a connection with another person. Talking to them, understanding and sharing each other's experiences. Laughing and joking with them. Being part of a group of friends is itself rewarding. Other than that, I have cherished memories of spending time with friends. I played sports with my friends. My friends have helped me in doing school work. I have done projects with them that would have taken me hours if I chose to do them alone. They've helped me by lending me their stuff for free and giving me advice and information that would have taken me a long time to acquire. Having friends in your workplace just makes those interactions a lot more smoother, as opposed to if they were just my colleagues. My friends are not necessarily spiritual people, I just enjoy friendship itself. And if we include family with friends then they have helped so much I couldn't even tell you. Just the love and support. I wouldn't be where I am without my family and friends. My parents' friends have helped us so many times it's hard to remember all the moments, wouldn't be here without them either.

None of that is valuable or fulfilling.  I suppose it is good if you are able to just be whole you are with your friends.  But out of that, everything that you are getting from your friends are just values that you are attributing to them.

1 hour ago, Akemrelax said:

The point is not what I have gotten out of my friends, the point is why don't you see the intrinsic beauty in friendship? Human being are social creatures, we are designed to feel good when we are together. Society is based upon love between humans. You don't feel love and connection? Maybe you're stuck in stage orange. Notice the framing of the question, "what have you gotten out of your current friends?", as if they are suppose to pump out coins.

Because there is none.  There is no intrinsic value in any kind of relationship.  All relationships have turmoil and the bad ones can lead to your doom.  There is no such thing as a nice person.  We all have bad within us and that is why we all clash.

When you turn inwards and become a meditator you feel a more general love for humanity and you simply do not desire to have any entanglements with other people if you can help it.

And it is hilarious that you say “maybe you are stuck in stage orange” when you are the one who listed all that you have gotten out of friendships.  A truly developed person would not seek to get anything out of any friendships.  They would appreciate their friends for who they are.

1 hour ago, Akemrelax said:

You work in Hollywood, so your life purpose must be to entertain people or to enrich their lives. Isn't it weird that you don't want to be friends with the same people you want to help/touch with your work? You have such low opinion of them... you call them "jerks", why even produce art for them?

 

As an artist I love all of the people who enjoy what I do.  But they will never know me.  I will never know them.  What I do is our only form of communication.  And let’s be honest, most consumers are not in a very high state of consciousness.

1 hour ago, Akemrelax said:

 

They didn't make friends! Lol 

I mean, you can go through life living in poverty like those monks. 

Also, how do you know having friends wouldn't have helped them? What about all the people who got somewhere in part because of their friends? @Arcangeloabove literally said his friend saved his life. Lol

So perhaps you are overvaluing friendships?

Not making friends is not poverty.  That’s actually funny.  About a month ago the racer Kyle Busch said that Joey Logano has no friends.  Logano’s comments were “I have business relationships and I hope that they’re good.”  Logano just won and got into the final four while Kyle Busch is winless and didn’t even make the next round.  I guess those friendships that Kyle Busch has helped him out a ton.

And hey, not everyone is independent or autonomous.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Thestarguitarist14

[Eph75]

From a pragmatic POV I'd agree that awakening gave also me the insight that my friendships and relations had and was causing me more negative effects than possitive effects. 

But that wasn't about the friends per se but about my skewed perception of what I tried to live up to in order to be a good friend, and also what I expected in return out of my "invested time". My needs were toxic and I sought out/attracted toxic friendships that ultimately wouldn't be able to get me where I needed. 

But that's not what friendship is, nor what friends are for. Those are transactions of sorts, lets say in my case centering around self-esteem, investing myself in order to get confirmation via such friendships so that they could make me feel better about myself. 

When coming to the realization that such "friendships" have caused suffering, it is easy to act out of a position where we externalizing the suffering and wrongfully projecting the cause/blame onto those "friends" that you've made yourself codependent of.

From this POV, what we're looking for and "need" in friendships is then to be found within ourselves. 

True friendship is something else, it is not about expecting to get something back and instead centered around the beingness of the relation. Which then of course emphasizes the requirement for compatibility/balance between two individuals in order to be fulfilling.

Not continuing investing in percieved friendships that are not true in that sense is a good thing.

Reducing number of friend and keep true Friends is good but it is also harder to find authentic friendship as a lot of people are acting out of various dysfunctions. 

As I wrote before, when extracting your own toxicity in the expectations of yourself and others from the friends/relations equation, what I have found is that I have a very low need for interactions with others and I get most if not all of my basic need met by the interaction I have with my wife, my sons and my parents.

The exacerbated need for friends was created by my own toxicity. Without that toxicity my need was already met with excess. 

Also, this realization changes relationships in general at the core, shifting focus from the negative to the positive and when doing this you change and it brings out more of the positive side in others, not reinforcing each others negativity/toxicity and people that were triggering your suffering in you can very well turn out offering something special that you couldn't absorb in the past. 

Instead of downward spiraling relationships they start to upward-spiral without any expectation how they should be or needing them to become "perfect". There is something good in everthing and everyone, it is just a matter of seeing it and that helps neutalizing differences and abrations.

Business relations and networking is essentially required to maximize success. That doesn't mean that you can't be successful doing it on your own. This is coming from a need of transaction of services though, but that doesn't prevent such acquantinces turning into friendship over time. 

Also what success is, is relevant depending on who you are and at what stage of development you are, as is the need of friends and the form friendships are expected to come/be.

Trying to force one POV onto others when this dynamic is grossly deoendent on who you are, where you are coming from, what you deficiencies are and at that stage of development you are as well as whhere you are on the spiritual path is a recepie for disaster 

If cutting friends is a knee-jerk reaction to desperately avoid suffering, while it might be a requirement in that very moment to get on with your own development, it is not a sound long term philosophy to get permanently stuck with. 

Human interactions are complex and small changes in you can change the whole dynamics of a relationship, in unexpected ways.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Eph75

[Akemrelax]

1 hour ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

And it is hilarious that you say “maybe you are stuck in stage orange” when you are the one who listed all that you have gotten out of friendships.  A truly developed person would not seek to get anything out of any friendships.  They would appreciate their friends for who they are.

You say that while simultaneously saying success is more valuable to you then human relations. 

Guess what, a truly developed person wouldn't seek success. A truly developed person wouldn't even have the need to use the internet.

I already told you I value friendships for friendships' sake and I also listed some material gains I got since you asked me to. Every time I write something you're just not able to understand it so there's no point in communicating further.

1 hour ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

Not making friends is not poverty.  That’s actually funny.  About a month ago the racer Kyle Busch said that Joey Logano has no friends.  Logano’s comments were “I have business relationships and I hope that they’re good.”  Logano just won and got into the final four while Kyle Busch is winless and didn’t even make the next round.  I guess those friendships that Kyle Busch has helped him out a ton.

Wait what? You interpreted that literally as "no friends = financial poverty"? Lol

Wait, you work in Hollywood, I think it's starting to make sense why you don't like friends. Hahaha

Edited October 28, 2020 by Akemrelax

[Thestarguitarist14]

1 hour ago, Akemrelax said:

You say that while simultaneously saying success is more valuable to you then human relations. 

Guess what, a truly developed person wouldn't seek success. A truly developed person wouldn't even have the need to use the internet.

I already told you I value friendships for friendships' sake and I also listed some material gains I got since you asked me to. Every time I write something you're just not able to understand it so there's no point in communicating further.

Wait what? You interpreted that literally as "no friends = financial poverty"? Lol

Wait, you work in Hollywood, I think it's starting to make sense why you don't like friends. Hahaha

LOL, enjoy your hallucination.

[ivory]

@7thLetter Good stuff

 

7 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

When I said what you just quoted, it was meant to be more of a rhetorical question. My point is, people are claiming that spiritual growth comes with becoming more of a “hermit” right, that’s what this whole thread is about.

There are several ideas I am challenging here but that is definitely one of them.

7 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

So since we’re talking about giving priority to one thing, what I’m saying is that these people’s priority is spirituality. And from what most of us know, spiritual practices don’t require anything else other than yourself. So if working on themselves is their priority then they don’t need to allocate their time into friendships as much, or even at all. Only if they choose to.

I understand now that you are referring to formal meditation and inquiry. You are definitely not wrong about that.

The disconnect we have is because we use the terms "growth", "spirituality", and "practice" quite differently. I make no distinction between "ordinary life" and "spiritual life". My teachers made sure that the students really understood this. We were taught that true practice includes the difficulties we instinctively avoid as well as the emotions we don't want to feel. We also taught to practice in every waking moment, in all situations, including relationship. 

Leo and my most influential teacher, Ezra Bayda, share some common elements in their personal growth philosophies, which is part of the reason I'm drawn to this forum. Both philosophies are fairly comprehensive, emphasizing practices that facilitate personal growth and the embodiment of absolute truth. This is not very common.

I found a few of my teachers quotes on the web that I'd like to share here. Hopefully this will help you understand where I come from and why I oppose some views shared by members of the forum. These four quotes summarize what the majority of spiritual practice entails but most people here will not want to hear it. Nobody wants to believe that spiritual life is just ordinary life (hence the tendency to renounce the ordinary)...

Quote

This is an important reminder of what the spiritual life is truly about: the willingness to open ourselves to whatever life presents—no matter how messy or complicated. And through that willingness to be open, we can discover wisdom, compassion, and the genuine life we all want. Bayda applies this simple Zen teaching to a range of everyday concerns—including relationships, trust, sexuality, and money—showing that everything we need to practice is right here before us, and that peace and fulfillment is available to everyone, right here, right now, no matter what their circumstances.

 

Quote

When we learn what it means to say Yes to a difficulty, to be curious about what life is, this is a turning point in our spiritual path. It allows us to experience life's difficulties more as an adventure than as a nightmare. When a difficulty arises, instead of saying, "Oh no!" -- which is our normal response -- we can say, "Here it comes again; what will it be like this time?

Ultimately, spiritual practice requires the implicit understanding that whatever situation or emotion we can't say Yes to is the exact direction of our spiritual path. This is particularly true when we feel anxiety. From a spiritual point of view, having anxiety doesn't mean that something is bad. All it means is that there is anxiety, which is simply the result of our own particular conditioning. We don't have to fight it. Nor do we need to fix it. In fact, when anxiety predictably arises, instead of viewing it as a problem, we simply pause, acknowledge it and then say Yes to it -- which means welcoming it with curiosity as an opportunity to work with our own particular edge.

 

Quote

First, we can learn to recognize that the difficulty is our path instead of trying to escape from it. This is a radical yet necessary change in our perspective. When uncomfortable things happen to us, we rarely want to have anything to do with them. We might respond with the belief 'Things shouldn't be this way' or 'Life shouldn't be so messy.' Who says? Who says that life shouldn't be a mess? When life is not fitting our expectations of how it's supposed to be, we usually try to change it to fit our expectations. But the key to practice is not to try to change our life but to change our relationship to our expectations — to learn to see whatever is happening as our path.

 

Quote

Our difficulties are not obstacles to the path; they are the path itself. They are opportunities to awaken. We are learning what it means to be willing to be with whatever life presents us. Even when we don't like it, we understand that this difficulty is our practice, our path, our life.

 

7 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

I’m sure Leo talks about this in his videos. I think he talks about it in his “Lifestyle minimalism” video, so I would suggest you check that one out. So this idea of not needing friends could be coming from Leo, I mean he talks about it himself so.

Leo's ego is somewhat wrapped up in his lone wolf identity. I've seen him glorify the lone wolf lifestyle and I just find it irresponsible. Most people don't do well in isolation. The lone wolves of this forum suffer from loneliness and confusion as you can see here in a quick forum search. Many seem to believe that isolation is required to reach higher states of consciousness or achieve "advanced" levels of development. Thankfully, Leo does debunks those ideas here and here. Hopefully more people will see this.

 

7 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

And why do you think that monks decide to spend their whole lives by themselves meditating in a cave? Because they know the value of spiritual growth and how much time and work they need to put into meditation in order to reach certain levels of growth. They have no time for friends.

I'm not sure about you, but spiritual practice for me reduces suffering while maximizing enjoyment and a sense of meaning. Isolating in a cave is going to have a very different effect. I'm not saying that we won't grow or develop at all, but will not be nearly as developed as the average member of society. Society makes us grow.

I've heard rumors of the cave-dwelling lifestyle, but I doubt the monks were formally trained. Monks, at least in the Buddhist and Zen traditions, live in community. Monastics live an extremely challenging life but are  tough as nails. I would highly recommend spending time as a monastic guest or resident. You will be challenged, but you will be transformed on many levels.

7 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but could this thread be a denial of a harsh truth? Spirituality or success in anything comes with sacrifices. 

I'm not sure what you suggest I may be denying. I understand that spirituality requires sacrifice, it's hard work. We need to carve out some extra time for formal practice, but letting go means letting go of the things that aren't in alignment with our values.

7 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

Are you someone who feels a deep need for friends? Do you feel “woke” or spiritually grown to a certain extent but feel judged by other “spiritual” people because you have friends? If anyone tells you to cut off your friends to be more spiritual then do what you want not what they want. Let it come naturally. Cutting off friends doesn’t = 10x amount of spiritual growth.

I used to be alone wolf but suffered some pretty bad mental health issues. Then, two years ago I started to explore how a life filled with friends might affect me. I have discovered that I have a deep need for friends. I understand how unhealthy it is to pursue enlightenment with such intensity that you deny your basic human needs.

I wouldn't say that I'm woke, but I am very well established in the Green value system. In fact, two years ago, I began my transition from Orange to Green which is document in this post: here. It's sort of interesting to see how it all started with my discovery of SD and understanding that I needed to shift into Green at that particular tine in my life.

If you're into SD you'll recall that each stage transcends and includes the one prior. So at Yellow, you transcend the unhealthy manifestations of Green and include the healthy ones. That means spiritual growth beyond Green does not mean you cut off your friends! That said, may no longer live in a hippie commune at Yellow, but you're not living in isolation in a cave either.

7 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

I think its true that you can transcend a need for friends but it needs to come naturally. And if you’re here writing a rant on this topic then you’re maybe not there yet, which is fine.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but I've seen very little evidence to back this claim. It might work for Leo, but we can't assume it's because he's spiritually evolved. Leo, after all, still needs to put drugs up his ass to reach high states of consciousness. Just saying.

Edited October 28, 2020 by ivory

[ivory]

I thought a little more about my intention for starting this thread and I realize now why this topic is so important to me.

Two years ago I was in the middle of a very painful and confusing existential crisis. What I didn't realize is that I was transitioning out of Orange and into Green. I simply had no knowledge of spiral dynamics. As soon as I saw the spiral dynamics video on green, I recognized what was happening to me, and was finally able to chart a clear path forward.

The thread referenced above marks the day I began my transition into green. Two years has since passed and I am reporting a profound transformation. I am at home in green and feel a very mature embodiment of green values. What I want to point out is that the contents of this current thread include many of the insights and lessons I have learned over the last two years, and highlights some of the mistakes I had made prior to that.

I personally don't think that you can make much progress towards enlightenment if your values are predominantly orange. I also believe that progress will be limited until you can develop and maintain healthy relationships with others and resolve issues such as chronic loneliness, depression, and anxiety. Ups and downs are inevitable, but consciousness isn't vivid until your mood is bright and stable.

Mental health is imperative to stabilizes in green, let alone transition to yellow.

What I'm trying to say is that if you suspect you are on the cusp of green, or have reached a stage where you have had it with loneliness and the endless pursuit of accomplishment, then you might want to pay attention to what I have to say here.

To be green be solid in green is pure joy.

[Thestarguitarist14]

59 minutes ago, ivory said:

I thought a little more about my intention for starting this thread and I realize now why this topic is so important to me.

Two years ago I was in the middle of a very painful and confusing existential crisis. What I didn't realize is that I was transitioning out of Orange and into Green. I simply had no knowledge of spiral dynamics. As soon as I saw the spiral dynamics video on green, I recognized what was happening to me, and was finally able to chart a clear path forward.

The thread referenced above marks the day I began my transition into green. Two years has since passed and I am reporting a profound transformation. I am at home in green and feel a very mature embodiment of green values. What I want to point out is that the contents of this current thread include many of the insights and lessons I have learned over the last two years, and highlights some of the mistakes I had made prior to that.

I personally don't think that you can make much progress towards enlightenment if your values are predominantly orange. I also believe that progress will be limited until you can develop and maintain healthy relationships with others and resolve issues such as chronic loneliness, depression, and anxiety. Ups and downs are inevitable, but consciousness isn't vivid until your mood is bright and stable.

Mental health is imperative to stabilizes in green, let alone transition to yellow.

What I'm trying to say is that if you suspect you are on the cusp of green, or have reached a stage where you have had it with loneliness and the endless pursuit of accomplishment, then you might want to pay attention to what I have to say here.

To be green be solid in green is pure joy.

You do realize that there are levels past Green right?  

[RendHeaven]

1 hour ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

You do realize that there are levels past Green right?  

I'd wager that you haven't plumped the depths of green as much as you think you have.

Leo once said something to this effect (paraphrasing): "You're not really green until you're a feminist socialist vegan activist~ "

Taking veganism, for example, there is a qualitative difference in understanding between looking at + judging a vegan as a non-vegan vs actually taking on the ethos for yourself and trying out the lifestyle (+ being horrified at the way you once ate meat haha).

To really get green and to experience all of its joys, you need to put your skin in the game and actually become green even if you already fancy yourself evolved and tier-2. This is a lesson that I am still personally learning.

Now, I don't know any of your personal history/struggles/evolutions. Maybe I'm preaching to the choir.

Nonetheless, this attitude of, "You do realize that there are levels past Green right?" (not to mention all of your past replies in this thread) gives the impression of snarky misunderstanding; of someone who is judging from the outside instead of someone who has explored to the point of deep understanding.

I'm not saying this as a way to frame you as wrong: please don't take it that way.

I am only suggesting the possibility of more expansive attitudes

Edited October 28, 2020 by RendHeaven

[Michael569]

On 25/10/2020 at 5:16 AM, Preety_India said:

It's not about transcending the need for friends. 

It's about transcending neediness. 

nice!

[Thestarguitarist14]

1 hour ago, RendHeaven said:

I'd wager that you haven't plumped the depths of green as much as you think you have.

Leo once said something to this effect (paraphrasing): "You're not really green until you're a feminist socialist vegan activist~ "

Taking veganism, for example, there is a qualitative difference in understanding between looking at + judging a vegan as a non-vegan vs actually taking on the ethos for yourself and trying out the lifestyle (+ being horrified at the way you once ate meat haha).

To really get green and to experience all of its joys, you need to put your skin in the game and actually become green even if you already fancy yourself evolved and tier-2. This is a lesson that I am still personally learning.

Now, I don't know any of your personal history/struggles/evolutions. Maybe I'm preaching to the choir.

Nonetheless, this attitude of, "You do realize that there are levels past Green right?" (not to mention all of your past replies in this thread) gives the impression of snarky misunderstanding; of someone who is judging from the outside instead of someone who has explored to the point of deep understanding.

I'm not saying this as a way to frame you as wrong: please don't take it that way.

I am only suggesting the possibility of more expansive attitudes

First off, you do not even know who I am so do not act like you know where I am at.

Secondly, I left Hollywood (which is more green than people give it credit for, it’s just mixed in with unhealthy orange for a year and lived in the Bay Area and to a lesser extent San Diego specifically to be more green.  San Francisco was an interesting experience as that is a very green city (though o.gs told me that it was even better before the tech bubble came in).  But the work environments there are very green, very community based and I was able to truly sink into that.  I also got away from the “hustle” and was able to focus on relaxing more.  I also got more into environmental issues and human issues.  Still am to this day as I donate monthly to Doctors Without Borders, The Nature Conservancy, The Grand Canyon, and the National Parks Foundation.

Fast forward I am back in L.A with this green mindset.  I had a new job working for Doctors Without Borders.  I tried to implement these new green concepts with coworkers and friends.  Did not work.  I then saw that Hollywood is truly a system, not just in name.  Since that realization I have transitioned into Yellow.  A big realization that I have had is that nobody is nice.  Nobody is bad either.  But nobody is nice.  Nice is just a mask.

Once the pandemic happen and I had my awakening I started dropping my toxic friends and haven’t looked back since.  I have been exploring the systematic nature of society.  The “broom of the system” if you will.

I only replied that way to him because he is acting as though green is where it’s at when it is not.  Leo warned us about this in his first spiral dynamics video on how people justify getting themselves stuck in green.

 

 

[RendHeaven]

47 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

1) First off, you do not even know who I am so do not act like you know where I am at.
2) I only replied that way to him because he is acting as though green is where it’s at when it is not.  Leo warned us about this in his first spiral dynamics video on how people justify getting themselves stuck in green.

1) Yes, I acknowledge(d) this.

2) I personally don't see @ivory being "stuck."

I don't doubt that your journey is filled with valuable insights. The way in which you describe the world has some truth to it

[Thestarguitarist14]

33 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

1) Yes, I acknowledge(d) this.

2) I personally don't see @ivory being "stuck."

I don't doubt that your journey is filled with valuable insights. The way in which you describe the world has some truth to it

Eh.  He is preaching this green mindset and is closed off to the idea of transcending the need for friends.  It is dangerous to say that you “need” another human being.

Seems to be stuck to me.

[Akemrelax]

14 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

I think its true that you can transcend a need for friends but it needs to come naturally. And if you’re here writing a rant on this topic then you’re maybe not there yet, which is fine.

Yes, and the same can be said for people who say they don’t need friends.

If you want to live like a monk with no friends, then live like a monk. Don’t rant about how you don’t need friends cause everyone is a jerk and you’re superior. That just shows how you haven’t transcended your need. 

If you go and ask depressed, isolated people, they won’t tell you that they’re lonely, they’ll tell you how they don’t need friends, how they’re so independent. It’s the same with how people addicted to video games say they don’t need to go out and work, they have transcended their materialistic desires. But they’re getting their fix from things like video games. They haven’t transcended their needs, that’s bullshit, they don’t even have the self awareness to realize they have a need, that they would be more balanced having friends.

That’s the trap I was pointing out, make sure you’re not bullshitting yourself about transcending your needs for stuff like sex, money, friends, community, whatever. Have enough self-awareness to know if you’re being a monk or a frucking depressed dude with addictions.

[Thestarguitarist14]

25 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

Yes, and the same can be said for people who say they don’t need friends.

If you want to live like a monk with no friends, then live like a monk. Don’t rant about how you don’t need friends cause everyone is a jerk and you’re superior. That just shows how you haven’t transcended your need. 

If you go and ask depressed, isolated people, they won’t tell you that they’re lonely, they’ll tell you how they don’t need friends, how they’re so independent. It’s the same with how people addicted to video games say they don’t need to go out and work, they have transcended their materialistic desires. But they’re getting their fix from things like video games. They haven’t transcended their needs, that’s bullshit, they don’t even have the self awareness to realize they have a need, that they would be more balanced having friends.

That’s the trap I was pointing out, make sure you’re not bullshitting yourself about transcending your needs for stuff like sex, money, friends, community, whatever. Have enough self-awareness to know if you’re being a monk or a frucking depressed dude with addictions.

Maybe you are just not as developed as you believe yourself to be?  
 

And people who are depressed and lonely usually desperately want friends.  I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Thestarguitarist14