Rant: You need friends

[Arcangelo]

19 hours ago, ivory said:

So are you saying that SD is all about transcending the need for friends? You asked me for an example, and my example is you (among others). Also, I'm really curious where you got this idea that SD is about cutting friends from your life.

NO. Preety said that. I have never said in my life nor do I think that if I reach certain level of consciousness I will transcend the need of friends. Actually I think is the opposite: the more developed you are the easier to get along with everybody, and have lots of friends (the good ones)

We are social chimps we all need friends.

What I am saying is that PD makes you more aware of everything in your life. So one day you realize almost all your friends are using you, they are losers, addicts, and that they are going nowhere in life. That's when you drop the motherfuck*rs.

Ask around, a lot of people that gets into SD drop some of their friends. They realize they are shitty friends.

 

Arc

[Arcangelo]

7 hours ago, ivory said:

I was one of those who isolated to avoid the challenges that result from relationship while believing I was becoming more conscious.

There you go. YOU are the example. Not me.

Maybe you are projecting?

I dropped my friends like a dead weight. They didn't allow me to fly.

[Arcangelo]

More friends less success

Less friends more success

Friendships are a time investment. The more time you spend with your friends the less time you spend working on yourself (SD)

Leo talks about this on his minimalism video. Top 5 act.org video IMO

[ivory]

1 hour ago, Arcangelo said:

Ask around, a lot of people that gets into SD drop some of their friends. They realize they are shitty friends.

 

I agree that getting rid of shitty friends is a good idea.

1 hour ago, Arcangelo said:

More friends less success

Less friends more success

That's a stage orange mentality. Which is fine. At green, though, it might look like this:

More friends more success.

Less friends less success.

Or maybe:

More quality friends, more success.

1 hour ago, Arcangelo said:

The more time you spend with your friends the less time you spend working on yourself (SD)

If you're really on the ball you're working on yourself while you're with friends. Interpersonal intelligence is one of the lines of development, after all. That's one of the points I'm trying to get across in this thread. Spiritual life, or personal development, is not separate your social life. You develop yourself no matter what you are doing. Spiritual practice is a 24/7 commitment.

[LfcCharlie4]

@ivory I'd love for you to share your insights regarding friends & a fulfilling social life, sounds like a really interesting read! 

Not sure why everyone has gone into defense mode regarding friendship, like anything it can be one of the most beautiful aspects of your life, or a toxic drain, all about finding a balance that works for you and friends you can trust and build deep connections with. 

If you don't want friends at this time in your life, then don't form any friendships. 

But, true friendship really is one of the more beautiful things in life, but I love socializing so could be slightly bias! 

However, the point you don't 'need' friends is true but extends far beyond Friends in terms of awakening / Self-Realization. When you are stabilized in the peace & happiness of The Self, you then don't 'need' anything for your happiness as your happiness isn't dependent on anything. 

BUT, it doesn't mean you suddenly stop doing anything (you can if you want!) it just means life instead becomes an expression of this peace, happiness and love you feel, and you do things for the love of them, instead of seeking happiness in them. 

So, this makes the possibility for true friendship much likelier as you aren't trying to gain anything from your friends, you are just celebrating life with them, and forming a friendship for the fun of it, and your happiness isn't dependent on it. 

So while, yes you don't need friends, you can make that argument far beyond friends, and then Friends, Relationships, Activities etc simply become something we do for the love of it as an expression of the understanding. 

 

[Atmagyani]

For ego specific individual friends may be required.

For Self Realized every one who comes in contact is friend.

After experiencing bliss, I have spent 10 years alone in my room in last 20 years but never felt lonely or need of anyone to communicate.

[7thLetter]

I think it really depends on the personality type. I'm a really big fan of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, when it comes to understanding personality types, I haven't found anything else more accurate than that. Generally speaking, introverts are less social than extroverts. With that being said, its pretty common for introverts to have a few or no close friends, whereas with extroverts they love socialization so of course they generally would have a decent amount of friends. In my opinion it seems to me that introverts can enjoy socialization yes, but they have this "need" for solitude at the end of the day. With more extroverted-dominant personality types, they're the complete opposite. They seem to have a "need" for socialization, and if they spend too much time in solitude then they might start to feel mentally tired, or go insane.

My whole point is, I find it more common for introverts rather than extroverts to pursue the path of "spirituality." Generally introverts naturally tend to be the ones to "look within," "question," "observe," and "understand." Whereas with extroverts they're mainly focused outwards. They're just naturally more in tune with the outer world, so things like meditation can be a challenge for them. And so if most "spiritual" people are introverts, then this idea of transcending the need for friends could just be a deeper part of their personality type that is coming into play rather than them transcending the need for friends because they're more spiritually grown or conscious.

But at the same time, I can relate to this idea of transcending the need for friends. I'm an INTP on the MBTI, and I find my way of thinking to be quite complex and unique. I haven't met anyone else in person who thinks in a similar way that I do, and I've met quite a bit of people. Not to sound arrogant or anything but I find most people's way of thinking to be quite on the surface level, it just lacks depth. And this sometimes frustrates me, I just feel so different from others that it makes me super selective with who I hang out with. I have a few friends now I see once in a while but I spend most of my time alone. And I'm someone who grew up having friends outside of school, I've had a lot of great friends over the years. Although, I was usually a loner at school on lunch break in high school and in elementary. So since I'm someone who's spent a lot of time in solitude, then its just something that has become the norm, or a preference for me.

This is coming from someone who has experienced both, years of solitude, and years of great close friendships. And I can honestly say that I don't feel this deep "need" for friends anymore. Old friends I had just wouldn't be able to relate with me anymore. Although this doesn't mean I'm stuck up and wouldn't talk to them because I'm too "woke" or "conscious," I still talk to people. Whenever I work at a new job, I always try to be as friendly and as social as I can with others because I enjoy it. Most of these people want to be my friend but I personally choose solitude and working on myself or personal things, rather than hanging out outside of work. Although, I do still feel a deep need for romantic relationships because that's just something that hasn't been fulfilled for me in my life. Maybe the answer to this thread all comes down to what needs have or haven't been fully met.

One more thing I wanted to point out, even when it comes to financial success, its often taught that we're the average of the 5 people we hang out with. This statement comes from the idea that people can rub off on you. If you hang out with someone you don't want to be like, you'll end up picking up some of their behaviors, habits, etc. So if the you're someone on the spiritual path, and you hang out with people who don't understand it, then wouldn't that bring along a bit of a difficulty in the friendship? And sure, maybe you can hang out with other friends who are on the path but.. I find the "path" to be quite lonely. It's not like its a project that you work on with other people, but something that you do by yourself and for yourself. Plus, there's this idea of distractions. Anything that doesn't have to do with working on yourself, spending time in solitude, meditation, questioning, is a distraction to spiritual growth. And that includes hanging out with friends. Sure there's no problem with hanging out with friends, but when it comes to anything in life, in order to accelerate your growth in anything, you need to spend more time doing it right?

Spent over an hour writing this hope I provided some perspective.

[fridjonk]

You need friends

You don't need friends

No difference. 

1 hour ago, Meta-Man said:

Beware of your own biases.

[Rajneeshpuram]

When you become a kind of sage, read books, self-actualize, and make spiritual work... and then you meet your friends who talk about stupid things like football, gossip, fashion... you feel ALONE. Well its like when you are with a dog, you have his company but cannot relate as equals.

I've felt myself like surronded by the zombies of walking dead... I dont want this kind of friends. What I've done is meeting aware self actualized people in internet, and although they live in diferent countries I socialize with them via videos or webcams... and I value this relationships more than meeting people in mi city that are dumasses.

[PurpleTree]

14 minutes ago, Rajneeshpuram said:

When you become a kind of sage, read books, self-actualize, and make spiritual work... and then you meet your friends who talk about stupid things like football, gossip, fashion... you feel ALONE. Well its like when you are with a dog, you have his company but cannot relate as equals.

Best thing would be if you can talk to people on their level and actually enjoy it imo.

Or if you see that a friend might have some interest in going deeper you could help them.

And it's not about being fake for other people, everything is relative and life is a game anyways.

[LfcCharlie4]

48 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

You need friends

You don't need friends

No difference. 

^^^
Do whatever the fuckkkk you want, it’s your life after all ??‍♂️

[Setzer901]

Great post @ivory! I notice there is a lot of spiritual bypassing that happens over here. Some people over here seemed to have denied their humanness and replaced it with a spiritual ego. 

[fridjonk]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Do whatever the fuckkkk you want, it’s your life after all ??‍♂️

Right! 

Arguing about something as silly as this as if there's some absolute answer to the question. 

It's so relative it's not even funny. 

If you say friends are necessary now, you've yet to undergo the experience of someone who feels the opposite, and maybe you will in 40 years...and you'll feel like a fool. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@fridjonk

9 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

Right! 

Arguing about something as silly as this as if there's some absolute answer to the question. 

It's so relative it's not even funny. 

If you say friends are necessary now, you've yet to undergo the experience of someone who feels the opposite, and maybe you will in 40 years...and you'll feel like a fool. 

Yep, and then when that “need” / “neediness” / seeking something in others drops away, true friendship can begin, if you so wish of course  

[Matt23]

Who the hell knows if he actually said this. 

But I've heard similar wisdom in people who've gone out to live solo, doing spirituality, and then realized after a time that it was actually a sort of cop-out.  That, being alone in the woods is way easier than being with people.  That they grew more in relationships since they were constantly faced with their stuff.  

I doubt that there is a firm rule for every person in every situation, and I like to leave options open just in case.  You never know, sometimes, the best thing a person needs for their growth is to be a hermit.  Others might need relationships.  

One benefit, among many, I see in relationships is that you're not cocooned in your own bubble of biases, as people can call you out on stuff.  Also the feeling of connection and deeper meaning (depending on the quality of the relationships).  

A downside could be that relationships, unhealthy ones, might hold you back from growing more.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Matt23

[Akemrelax]

19 hours ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

Networking is so overrated.  You do good work, you naturally meet people in your industry, create contact, and then you can maybe use those working relationships in the future.

 

See, does not require a friendship.

Most of the time you need a reference to get a job, to even start working. You need to make friends in your workplace if you want to use them to advance your career, a non-friend might not help you. Of course, you need to balance individual work and socializing, but if others have friends they would spend their time and energy helping them and not you who is not a friend. If you are at the extremities of your career, you would need to talk to people from other departments to combine ideas and get inspiration, the best way to do that is by making friends. Outside of work, friends can provide you with new ideas, new opportunities, and inspiration. If you want to find a date, friends can be useful, if you want to know about things without spending hours Googling them, friends can help. If you want to live and work in the material world, have big dreams (not a boring job), then having at least some friends can be very beneficial. 

If you don't want to participate in the material world and your life purpose is to be like a monk, then that's a fine. It's a valid way to pursue enlightenment. However, make sure it's clear to you that you are pursuing your life purpose and not just wasting your time. Make sure you have planned ahead about the possibility that maybe in the future you may have a desire to have a robust social life and that your current actions will make it harder for you to make friends in the future. Make sure you have enough self-awareness to know if this is what you really want and know what you are missing.

[Thestarguitarist14]

26 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

Most of the time you need a reference to get a job, to even start working. You need to make friends in your workplace if you want to use them to advance your career, a non-friend might not help you. Of course, you need to balance individual work and socializing, but if others have friends they would spend their time and energy helping them and not you who is not a friend. If you are at the extremities of your career, you would need to talk to people from other departments to combine ideas and get inspiration, the best way to do that is by making friends. Outside of work, friends can provide you with new ideas, new opportunities, and inspiration. If you want to find a date, friends can be useful, if you want to know about things without spending hours Googling them, friends can help. If you want to live and work in the material world, have big dreams (not a boring job), then having at least some friends can be very beneficial. 

If you don't want to participate in the material world and your life purpose is to be like a monk, then that's a fine. It's a valid way to pursue enlightenment. However, make sure it's clear to you that you are pursuing your life purpose and not just wasting your time. Make sure you have planned ahead about the possibility that maybe in the future you may have a desire to have a robust social life and that your current actions will make it harder for you to make friends in the future. Make sure you have enough self-awareness to know if this is what you really want and know what you are missing.

I work in Hollywood, so it is a little different.  If you hustle enough, you’ll be fine.  You get an agent (have one) and you can create your own opportunities.  

Also out here, the only time a friend would come in handy is reading a script that I have written or doing an audition with me.  The latter is a little easier to get done, but almost no one wants to read a screenplay.

Haha, nobody fixes anybody up with anybody anymore.  Just doesn’t happen.  In the dating world, you are on your own.

Your stance is rather arrogant and short sighted.  You are basically saying “well, it is too hard to do anything in the world on my own so I need friends to get things done.”  That is not the case at all.  Plenty of successful people get where they are through their talent and will power.  You don’t need friends to do that.  Sure, there are people along the way that you may have a business relationship with.  But it is because you do good work, not because you are friends.  
 

Two good examples come from NASCAR.  NASCAR is a sport where most people get in theory family.  But there are two drivers named Ross Chastain and Matt DiBenedetto who did not come from rich families, have both professed to not having any friends in NASCAR (though Matt DiBenedetto seems to have one now) and Matt DiBenedetto actually has no sponsors of his own (meaning he brings no money to any team he is on which is unheard of nowadays).  Yet, they both have been able to achieve their dream of racing at the top level for good teams.  Why?  They kept their heads down, did good work on the track, fans started to like them, the right people noticed, they developed business relationships, and they delivered results.

It is as simple as that.  No friendships required.  
 

You are also forgetting independent contractors, people work run online businesses, small businesses and etc.  Sure, if you desire to be a normie, you need friends.  If you are an entrepreneur, the wrong friends will hold you back.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Thestarguitarist14

[Arcangelo]

For sure I need friends. They help you move out, they make you company, they can introduce you to your next girlfriend, they call you out on your bullshit, you can score party favors with them or with their friends, you know a friend of a friend. They influence you to do positive things, that's if you have positive friends. They support you, they can even save your life. A friend of mine saved me from getting ran over by a car. And I still cut him out of my life. I owe him my life and I couldn't even remain friends. He was toxic though, he was a scammer. Scammers and thieves get killed, I didn't want to be in the proximity of that. 

IDK it is difficult to make new friends the older you get. Because you have been screwed up already, so it is more difficult to trust people. It's like you are always on guard. Must be vulnerable to have/make friends.

 

 

Arc

 

[Thought Art]

I think one of the biggest challenges I face is spending time alone to read, work on myself, etc and finding time to spend time with others. It's hard to find balance. There is so much work that I am preferring to do now to work on myself. I definitely am still finding my balance.

[ivory]

9 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

Sure there's no problem with hanging out with friends, but when it comes to anything in life, in order to accelerate your growth in anything, you need to spend more time doing it right?

Growth shows up in many forms. You can grow in relationship, career, hobbies, education, healthy, mindfulness, etc. The point is, regardless of circumstance, you can grow in at least one area. Part of authenticity is getting clear on what you value, and devoting time and energy to that. For some that may be relationships, or, it may be other things. Recall that each person has a different set of values at any given time, and there's nothing wrong with giving priority to one thing or another.

8 hours ago, Meta-Man said:

Beware of your own biases.

Right now GREEN reflects my predominant set of values so relationships rank high in my priorities. But, I do respect differing values and opinions and acknowledge that everyone's path is unique. That said, I'm quite certain that many on this forum are in denial about their need for love and belonging.

5 hours ago, Setzer901 said:

Some people over here seemed to have denied their humanness and replaced it with a spiritual ego. 

Quite frankly, I think this is unavoidable. I certainly went through it, and I see many others make the same mistake. Eventually the suffering catches up with you and you either shed your spiritual ego and embrace your human nature, or you remain trapped in misery.

4 hours ago, Matt23 said:

But I've heard similar wisdom in people who've gone out to live solo, doing spirituality, and then realized after a time that it was actually a sort of cop-out.  That, being alone in the woods is way easier than being with people.  That they grew more in relationships since they were constantly faced with their stuff.  

Yep, totally common. And yes, relationships are an accelerant for growth.

4 hours ago, Matt23 said:

I doubt that there is a firm rule for every person in every situation, and I like to leave options open just in case.  You never know, sometimes, the best thing a person needs for their growth is to be a hermit.  Others might need relationships.  

There's a lot to unpack here, but well said. What I'd like to point out here is that we have limited control over the specifics of our life. External circumstances change and it's our responsibility to adapt. Sometimes growth means rising to the challenges that life presents us (a work catastrophe, loss of a loved one, health issue, etc). Other times we have more control and get to choose what we want to develop. What "the best thing" is is subject to interpretation, but the important thing is to recognize how to respond to the dynamic nature of life, and to spend our time wisely.

50 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

IDK it is difficult to make new friends the older you get. 

Making friends was much easier back in the school days because we were surrounded by people our age all day long. Things change drastically when we graduate so we have to get creative and put ourselves out there more to increase our chances of success.

5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

I think one of the biggest challenges I face is spending time alone to read, work on myself, etc and finding time to spend time with others. It's hard to find balance. There is so much work that I am preferring to do now to work on myself. I definitely am still finding my balance.

Same here. I personally make a schedule and try to stick to it at all costs. I'm a morning person so I wake up early, do the things I can do in solitude, then use the evenings or the weekends to spend time with friends. That said, balance is a bit of a moving target so it's important to use our time wisely.