why i am not the body?

[tsuki]

@Raven1998 read Surangama sutra. The chapter called "Wiping Out the Five Aggregates & Eight Consciousnesses to Expose the Unreality of Ego" answers your question.

Edited October 27, 2020 by tsuki

[PurpleTree]

On 24.10.2020 at 4:15 PM, Natasha said:

@Raven1998 Because the body is a mental construct. It would be like a wave asking why it's not a ripple. It's true nature would be water, not the form/ a ripple.

If people are "extremely" enlightened, shouldn't then they be able to let that mental construct go and be able to manipulate matter etc.

Why are they still bound to the body and the material world?

[abrakamowse]

15 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

If people are "extremely" enlightened, shouldn't then they be able to let that mental construct go and be able to manipulate matter etc.

Why are they still bound to the body and the material world?

There are different levels of enlightenment. Not all enlightened beings do those things, and when they can do, they don’t. 
Because they see that miracles like a way for the ego to brag about it. 
 

That’s why Jesus didn’t do miracles all the time. But he said, if you have enough faith, you can tell that mountain to move and it will do.

But he also complained that he had to do miracles to people believe in him. But instead he let nature take its natural course and allow the romans to crucify him. He didn’t defend, instead he was in a position of complete acceptance.

 

i know it’s hard for the ego to accept that. But things are the way they are, not the way the ego wants.

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, abrakamowse said:

There are different levels of enlightenment. Not all enlightened beings do those things, and when they can do, they don’t. 
Because they see that miracles like a way for the ego to brag about it. 
 

That’s why Jesus didn’t do miracles all the time. But he said, if you have enough faith, you can tell that mountain to move and it will do.

But he also complained that he had to do miracles to people believe in him. But instead he let nature take its natural course and allow the romans to crucify him. He didn’t defend, instead he was in a position of complete acceptance.

 

i know it’s hard for the ego to accept that. But things are the way they are, not the way the ego wants.

well that's just a story which was written down 2000 yrs ago and then again a few hundred years later given permission by the council of nicea.

we can't know whether it was true or not. have you ever seen somebody do such a thing in person?

[abrakamowse]

@PurpleTree No, I didn’t.

But, why do you think that if you are everything you have to do things in a different way than the natural way?

Why do you have to manipulate matter? 
 

If you are a mountain, you will behave as a mountain.

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

@PurpleTree

But, why do you think that if you are everything you have to do things in a different way than the natural way?

Why do you have to manipulate matter? 

Who knows maybe for fun or to show that it's just a mental concept which can be overcome with the right amount of discipline.

[abrakamowse]

@PurpleTree I think you can do it when you connect with the universal mind, the Buddha mind.

But, I have no proof. I never seen anyone doing it and I never did either.

I think reality is a construct of the universal mind, not of the mind we think we are. Not a construct of the ego mind. 
 

 

But, I don’t really know.

?

Edited October 27, 2020 by abrakamowse

[tsuki]

58 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

If people are "extremely" enlightened

"People" are never enlightened. What people learn during awakening is to make way for the truth.
When they do, enlightenment simply is, prior to all that.

58 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

shouldn't then they be able to let that mental construct go and be able to manipulate matter etc.

You are confusing the true mind with the false, personal, mind.

Edited October 27, 2020 by tsuki

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, tsuki said:

"People" are never enlightened. What people learn during awakening is to make way for the truth.
When they do, enlightenment simply is.

You are confusing the true mind with the false, personal, mind.

ok then let's say shouldn't this "part" or "perspective" of infinite consciousness be able to let all mental and bodily etc. constructs go and be able to manipulate matter etc.

[tsuki]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

ok then let's say shouldn't this "part" or "perspective" of infinite consciousness be able to let all mental and bodily etc. constructs go and be able to manipulate matter etc.

Matter is a concept. When you let go of concepts, what is there to manipulate?

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, tsuki said:

Matter is a concept. When you let go of concepts, what is there to manipulate?

concepts?

[tsuki]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

concepts?

It seems to me like you don't know what concepts are. Do you?

[PurpleTree]

6 minutes ago, tsuki said:

It seems to me like you don't know what concepts are. Do you?

if you let go of them, shouldn't you be more able to manipulate "matter" or "reality/the dream" than if you're holding on to them?

is enlightenment just a concept?

Edited October 27, 2020 by PurpleTree

[tsuki]

3 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

if you let go of them, shouldn't you be more able to manipulate "matter" than if you're holding on to them?

You keep asking this question and the answer is still the same: the question is nonsensical.
Matter is a concept. The thing that you think that you are is a concept.
When there is no matter and no you, who is there to manipulate anything?

Enlightenment is a concept until it isn't. Then it simply is itself.

Edited October 27, 2020 by tsuki

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, tsuki said:

You keep asking this question and the answer is still the same: the question is nonsensical.
Matter is a concept. The thing that you think that you are is a concept.
When there is no matter and no you, who is there to manipulate anything?

Enlightenment is a concept until it isn't. Then it simply is itself.

the dream is still there though right? can it be manipulated?

are you enlightened?

[tsuki]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

the dream is still there though right? can it be manipulated?

Expansion of consciousness is always inclusive, it never removes anything.
The dream is still here, but it is seen through as entertainment.

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

can it be manipulated?

There is no point in manipulating the dream other than making way for truth.

4 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

are you enlightened?

I've had experiences and the person is open.

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, tsuki said:

There is no point in manipulating the dream other than making way for truth.

What's the truth? That consciousness likes to experience itself?

[tsuki]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

What's the truth? That consciousness likes to experience itself?

Beliefs keep you stuck in the dream.
What is the truth?

[Breakingthewall]

To understand why you aren't the body you should have the realization of what are you if your body is disconnected, like a total paralysis, and after you loose totally your memories. What are you in that case? Nothing?  limitless?

[PurpleTree]

39 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Beliefs keep you stuck in the dream.
What is the truth?

let's say consciousness "enjoys" (for the lack of a better word) to experience itself from different perspectives/angles.

wouldn't manipulating the dream be another experience which would be "enjoyed"