Isn't it foolish to think that outside world doesnt exist? and object doesnt exist?

[Bulgarianspirit]

This thread is a careful dance between solipsism, madness and non-duality.

Here god argues with it's different parts over whether anything exists and what we should do about it.

Do you really think universal consciousness is limited to one being? Oh what a waste of potential.

And to the thread author, everything exists as experience and experiencer(duality of imagination)

Collapse the whole thing and you get consciousness, self aware and alone. But it's behind all appearances,form and time.

We are all literally one mind, each of it's parts separated by thought and imagination alone. The complicated nature of this can lead to explanations such as reality is magic etc.

Well yes it is, how come imagination feels so real. Anyway the point of nonduality is to spread love and kindness, here using the cerebral drives people to madness, ideas like solipsism etc. I say it once i say it again if this was the truth, why would spirituality be so wide spread? Spiritual teachers like Leo, should be warning people against it.

Oooh be careful don't want solipsim to bite your ass! Its silly really, this is what happens when you try to imagine your ego is god. We all exist as thoughts within god's mind. How is that for a twist?

Or multiple personalities of it, or masks, but everyone is made from the same stuff consciousness. So fundamentally you are all life. This should be good news, celebrated, not this madness.

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

My life as Javfly33 is also a concept.

What it exists are appeareances and awareness of this appearences. Lately I´ve found I am literally this appeareances because there´s not an "I" so I am whatever exists right now.

Right now exists colours and forms which my mind label as = screen, light, table, hands, glasses. That exists. Therefore right now I am the screen, light,  table, hands and glasses since there´s no separtion between reality and "I" since "I" does not exist.

Obviously a concept such as "There must be another person experiencing another appearence right now with different colours and forms" is a belief and a thought. 

I get you. So only THIS is real.. Anything else is imagination? 

[Javfly33]

19 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I get you. So only THIS is real.. Anything else is imagination? 

 It´s not that THIS is real, it´s that THIS is all of existence. So by pure "logic" anything ouside THIS is just the mind imagining that stuff can exist outside THIS  

 

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

 It´s not that THIS is real, it´s that THIS is all of existence. So by pure "logic" anything ouside THIS is just the mind imagining that stuff can exist outside THIS  

 

How do you know THIS is all of existence?  How do you know if you are not experiencing something that it doesn't exist?  Is that an experience or a belief?  Does your experience alone tell you that nothing is outside of it or is that something you are adding on top of it? 

[Javfly33]

15 minutes ago, Someone here said:

How do you know THIS is all of existence?  How do you know if you are not experiencing something that it doesn't exist?  Is that an experience or a belief?  Does your experience alone tell you that nothing is outside of it or is that something you are adding on top of it? 

Ok, I know what you are trying to say.

Let me ask you this question: For you, what is existence?

I think that you are asking me that question because for you, existence is that which IS (Isness) + that which you think IT COULD BE (Inevitably future, because if you say "it could be that this thing is existing outside of THIS.", you eventually would have to go to that place and be aware of that thing. By which at that point, that thing would exist of course   )

For me, existence is that which IS. 

For me, that which IS + that which could be (a possibility that i can´t verify) is Existence + Me imagining that something exists outside existence.

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Javfly33

[Someone here]

12 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Ok, I know what you are trying to say.

Let me ask you this question: For you, what is existence?

I think that you are asking me that question because for you, existence is that which IS (Isness) + that which you think IT COULD BE (Inevitably future, because if you say "it could be that this thing is existing outside of THIS.", you eventually would have to go to that place and be aware of that thing. By which at that point, that thing would exist of course   )

For me, existence is that which IS. 

For me, that which IS + that which could be (a possibility that i can´t verify) is Existence + Me imagining that something exists outside existence.

 

Very nice inquiring. Thanks for sharing. 

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Bulgarianspirit said:

This thread is a careful dance between solipsism, madness and non-duality.

Those are all literally different words for the same thing.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[commie]

36 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Those are all literally different words for the same thing.

Terrible use of language.

Firstly your lexicon wastes two words. And then you abuse its poverty to deny what's being said.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, commie said:

Terrible use of language.

Firstly your lexicon wastes two words. And then you abuse its poverty to deny what's being said.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[The0Self]

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Ok, I know what you are trying to say.

Let me ask you this question: For you, what is existence?

I think that you are asking me that question because for you, existence is that which IS (Isness) + that which you think IT COULD BE (Inevitably future, because if you say "it could be that this thing is existing outside of THIS.", you eventually would have to go to that place and be aware of that thing. By which at that point, that thing would exist of course   )

For me, existence is that which IS. 

For me, that which IS + that which could be (a possibility that i can´t verify) is Existence + Me imagining that something exists outside existence.

 

But what is is also what isn't. Existence is a weird word. "To be outside of." There's no inside or outside. Just what is, which also is what isn't. Truth, as you and Leo might call it, is unconditionally infinitely loving boundless freedom appearing as everything, which is no-thing. Every individual thing is what it is, but it's also everything, which is no-thing, which is unknowable and indescribable. That's the whole meaning of emptiness.

Edited October 26, 2020 by The0Self

[Shin]

53 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You have no idea what you're talking about.

That escalated quickly

[Carl-Richard]

15 minutes ago, Shin said:

That escalated quickly

If there was anything I could take back from what I said, it would be my use of the word "literally". I realized that I accidentally went full zoomer on that one. Everything else I stand for 100%.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[4201]

On 24/10/2020 at 7:00 AM, mandyjw said:

No body is not an idea, that's why the idea seems disturbing. This is not something you see or understand and are done, it's a really long process of being honest with ourselves and going into feeling over thinking again, and again and again. 

"You" actually do a terrible job of protecting your body. If you really listened to it you'd be caretaking it more efficiently.  "You" often stress yourself out more over some threat and damage your body, rather than taking appropriate intelligent action or letting the body automatically respond. "You" block intuition out with fear or the assumption that you or some other outside expert knows better. 

Go find a trail through the woods and run as fast as you possibly can on it. You will have to be completely immersed in your body, and completely present. You cannot think or predict with the mind which roots or rocks or trees are obstacles, if you get ahead of what is, you will miss the ones in your present experience and fall on your face. "You" are actually a threat to your body because of your obsessive need to protect it, you project dangers that aren't actually there and in doing so fail to respond to the present... the only time that any danger can actually hurt you. 

I came to realize this more directly lately. Just the idea that "what I think is a threat to my body doesn't matter because " can feel" wasn't enough for me. But after realizing that the body is never damaged without pain (or almost, since in its design it has nerves basically everywhere), there's no need to worry about "unconscious damage". That is I no longer need to avoid looking at every light I see because of fear of retinal damage. (Yeah I really had that ).

At least I was convinced of this idea, that there is no damage without hurting but then I had this conversation with a friend, and they were like, what about cancer? It's true, if you have cancer you won't just "feel" it. At least it's unclear. Likewise, if you smoke and it hurts your lungs, do you feel the pain? The body is great but it doesn't seem flawless.

I'm doing progress toward letting go of the protection of my body to feeling and I see that this idea of "a me that can be damaged without pain" has been put in place for social survival. The idea of me can be "diminished" without pain, so thinking I am this idea lead me to think I could be damaged without pain. I must admit caring about unconscious damage to my body was not really problematic compared to caring about "damage to my identity", which was a huge waste of time. I'm not free from the former though, hence this post.

This fear of "unconscious damage" doesn't seem like a thing only I have. Leo talks about heavy metals you could consume and I mean, I get him, I get spooked too by things that could damage my body. Would I feel it though if I had too much mercury? It's hard to tell. It is worth to not care about those things and possibly die younger for the sake of living a carefree life? Possibly, but I'm definitely not there yet.

[mandyjw]

@4201 There's a subtle difference between obsession and suffering for it and intelligent concern and respect for dangers. You'll only know the difference for yourself, by feeling into it.

I think it's common for some form of OCD or hypochondria to precede going deep into spirituality. Some people are such strong thinkers and feelers that they are incompatible with the beliefs of everyone else around them. We were taught that we are a mind that lives in a body, that lives in a world and therefore, we have drawn all kinds of horrible conclusions and "if that then this" beliefs from it. It's a house build upon the sand. Our minds are absolutely rebelling against it. We have a deep intuition that will not accept the beliefs and when we go along with them feeling screams "NO, that's not right!" and the more we stick to them the more we worry, obsess and suffer. So we must start at square one and inquire and feel into what we really are. 

The mind really wants to be united with feeling, but if you build your house upon the sand and believe the mind, body, world hierarchy and forget the awareness and consciousness behind it all, the mind will try to dominate the entire show with its own misinformation. 

Depression, anxiety and many mental illnesses are a complete rejection or rebellion towards this fundamental inequality of power. But we sometimes project this intuition out and get angry at others who we think are taking our power. Or we believe that we really are flawed or move back and forth between the two reactions of anger and self hatred. 

Who would have thought that you should put down a foundation before building the first floor of the house?  Seems so impractical, right? 

[zeroISinfinity]

God exists. 

[LfcCharlie4]

The world is an illusion is a confusing teaching, I remember the heart wrenching feeling the first time I read that in a Ramana Maharshi book. 

But, in essence, it simply means All is Self, as that is ALL that exists, therefore, NOTHING can exist outside of that. 

Personally, saying the 'world is an illusion' , 'it doesn't exist' isn't usually the most helpful way, it depends on the situation. 

Bringing someone to the understanding that not only is awareness their true being, but Awareness / The Self is the fabric of ALL of reality, will lead to a natural conclusion that 'The World is an illusion' as we normally perceive it, as all EVERYTHING is, is simply The Self. 

This realization and the realization of 'No Other' tend to go hand in hand, now, that can be a real mind fuck, but a fun one