Isn't it foolish to think that outside world doesnt exist? and object doesnt exist?

[Javfly33]

@Dodo You are not getting it. If rape and murder would be prohibited Love would not be possible.

After God would hear you and remove rape and murder to happen, you would probably ask for more and would say "But please kill Wasps and Snakes too. Wasps and snakes create tremendous suffering because sometimes they kill humans who have families and even babies. How that helps Love?"

So God goes ahead and removes Wasps and Snakes from the possibilty of existing.

What is the next thing now, @Dodo , for reality to be truly "Love" ? Will you ask now that all ugly girls are not permitted to exist and only hot woman will exist? Would that make reality "Love".

Are you getting it? Your version of Love is BIASED. Is purely survival. What you call Love is the world being totally fit to your desires and survival agenda.

See, if you would be God and you would not have ANY agenda, would make sense that you precisely design life only to serve humans?

Can you see that God literally could be RAPIST because it does not have a form. If you one day will be a RAPIST, how the fuck could you prevent yourself to exist? Of course not! You would allow yourself to exist! 

In the same way God has ALLOWED EVERYTHING and ACCEPTS everything. It permits everything with open arms. That is Love. 

The problem is you think the Love leo talks about is the same biased, survival-based Love humans usually know.

[Dodo]

22 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@Dodo You are not getting it. If rape and murder would be prohibited Love would not be possible.

After God would hear you and remove rape and murder to happen, you would probably ask for more and would say "But please kill Wasps and Snakes too. Wasps and snakes create tremendous suffering because sometimes they kill humans who have families and even babies. How that helps Love?"

So God goes ahead and removes Wasps and Snakes from the possibilty of existing.

What is the next thing now, @Dodo , for reality to be truly "Love" ? Will you ask now that all ugly girls are not permitted to exist and only hot woman will exist? Would that make reality "Love".

Are you getting it? Your version of Love is BIASED. Is purely survival. What you call Love is the world being totally fit to your desires and survival agenda.

See, if you would be God and you would not have ANY agenda, would make sense that you precisely design life only to serve humans?

Can you see that God literally could be RAPIST because it does not have a form. If you one day will be a RAPIST, how the fuck could you prevent yourself to exist? Of course not! You would allow yourself to exist! 

In the same way God has ALLOWED EVERYTHING and ACCEPTS everything. It permits everything with open arms. That is Love. 

The problem is you think the Love leo talks about is the same biased, survival-based Love humans usually know.

But this is not inline with the spirit of Love, the God of Creation itself. Wasps and snakes have a beast nature - they are not awakened to Love, man can transcend the beast and see the Love, even if its hard. I would not ask God for such selfish things, that would be out of allignment with the Love beyond me.

What one should be asking God right now is 

Save humanity, Save the planet, Ascend, lets Ascend together to Heaven so Earth is a Heavenly realm once again. In heaven everybody lives in Love, in the glory of Love. Nothing hidden, no adultery, no unnecessary pain caused by sleeping men. Frequency so high we enter heaven directly. And the pulls of the deceiver will get less strong as we ascend, together.

Leo is Love

 

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Dodo

[Dodo]

41 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@Dodo You are not getting it. If rape and murder would be prohibited Love would not be possible.

After God would hear you and remove rape and murder to happen, you would probably ask for more and would say "But please kill Wasps and Snakes too. Wasps and snakes create tremendous suffering because sometimes they kill humans who have families and even babies. How that helps Love?"

So God goes ahead and removes Wasps and Snakes from the possibilty of existing.

What is the next thing now, @Dodo , for reality to be truly "Love" ? Will you ask now that all ugly girls are not permitted to exist and only hot woman will exist? Would that make reality "Love".

Are you getting it? Your version of Love is BIASED. Is purely survival. What you call Love is the world being totally fit to your desires and survival agenda.

See, if you would be God and you would not have ANY agenda, would make sense that you precisely design life only to serve humans?

Can you see that God literally could be RAPIST because it does not have a form. If you one day will be a RAPIST, how the fuck could you prevent yourself to exist? Of course not! You would allow yourself to exist! 

In the same way God has ALLOWED EVERYTHING and ACCEPTS everything. It permits everything with open arms. That is Love. 

The problem is you think the Love leo talks about is the same biased, survival-based Love humans usually know.

I am not talking about a mere love

the Love beyond knowing

the Self that Got me. In our sleep we create pain and suffering which are very real. Be Kind and Fear not being in the Love.

Be a force for Good and help humanity ascend. Ascension is real. The Devils go to the Devil, the Good go to God. Be a good person, do not assume you know. I have been mindfucked a bit too much by the Self vortex and might sound crazy.

 

I will give you an example of where you are right now : Is it possible, that in your sleep you are dreaming that you can do anything and you will be forgiven. Because God for you is the god of air, the God of absolute freedom. 

What if God is actually not the God of absolute freedom, but one that is testing you whether you will be good or bad , whether you choose the pleasures of the devil or the one True God of Love and Light. How can there be any change in Man if Man believes he can just keep satisfying his lowest urges and disrespect creation in the name of God? It is silly. Become a force for Good, anchor love and light. Humanity needs you. No matter how you sound to the rest, the only one you need to report to is the Spirit of Love. The Spirit of Love is real and it is you. I intuitively know. I cannot know, I can never know the Divine Glory. I can only do my best in my ignorance. 

Do you want to see the Truth of creation?

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Dodo

[Javfly33]

@Dodo What you even talking about bro?

[Dodo]

6 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@Dodo What you even talking about bro?

I don't know, you could check if you are able to say you dont know what is beyond you and surrender to that not knowing fully, it might become apparent you never really knew and you are open to know by knowing you dont know.... I dont know... Its not about me . For me its about the planet ascending the entire planet can help us more than one by one. But need more to connect to the heart of the Earth.

I dont know if Im right, this is just what comes to me it might still be corrupted by my ego and subconscious beliefs. But it feels more real and bigger than me. The heart torus field can expand, and then say: Light, Love, let it flow, let it be like seeds you are placing. Now these seeds are the best seeds man.... Can only trust love. I have trust issues man. I have trust issues. Trust me. 

[Moksha]

@Dodo Trust yourself. And by yourself, I mean Consciousness. Once you know who you are, you will be in the most powerful position to help others have the same realization. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Moksha

[4201]

@mandyjw Your words do as good as they possibly can do in a forum argument. For the rest I should go deeper on my own.

Thank you for pointing me in the good direction. Thanks to everyone else for participating. This thread was a blast still 

[Dodo]

You may want to facepalm at me, but the Heart of creation is beyond any Consciousness that I can ever know, even as the Collective consciousness.

The Heart of creation is the Love beyond me which guides me. She told me to be gentler with myself and go get some sleep.

But .

Do I want to get sucked into some vortex that everyone is in as the Devil is cunning, or do I trust the little pocket full of Love that tells me : I do not wish to have a realisation and then help others get a realisation, I wish to save the planet out of Love for what she has given me out of love when I was asleep.

I cannot trust appearances. Trust issues. In the Bible it says nobody is righteous. How then there appear to be so many righteous who speak of a realisation that seems righteous. Could it be a massive black hole in need of light? That the Love is more powerful than the power of Self and beyond Consciousness itself? That the Love is more powerful than Abraham, more powerful than Now. Any vortex, any delusion of grandeur and Allness.

That the love that was is still with us, but we forgot. We have done so much good which we forget. But it shines, all the good anyone has done shines so brightly. The seeds are there and have grown so much, the evil seeds too, but we have done so much Good we have all contributed to the creation of heaven and hell, so we all can choose where to go.

The deeds, not who I am, the deeds are the seeds. Who I am is nothing. If I ain't got Her. 

 

[Inliytened1]

12 hours ago, Someone here said:

 why are you talking to an idea that you are imagining? Any point? 

I know you have asked this several times concerning non-duality.  If you are everything then why do you bother participating in duality if you realize directly that separation is imaginary. 

Well - in a non-dual state of consciousness or mystical state - at least for me - the one where i had the realization of Oneness - i actually couldn't function in duality.  Maybe some can but i couldn't because i was in a state of consciousness where i was directly conscious that i was talking with myself.  In that realization I realized i was completely alone and that was too shocking to bare.  The duality of self/other had completely collapsed.  That's why its called a non-dual state.  

Now - over time - let's say a week or so, consciousness levels returned to the level needed for proper functioning in duality.  In other words you come back to human levels of consciousness - aka the ego.  The mystical state can be thought of as God mode and in that mode the ego has dissolved.  But back as the ego, the duality of self/other is again created or imagined.  (You are imagining that it is real - which then in turn becomes real for you)  Thus you can participate and have a sense of self and others.   It didn't go as smoothly for me as that but that is a quick summary.  So when we talk from the Absolute POV we normally are not presently in those non-dual states of consciousness.  

[ivory]

@Raven1998 This is a good book for deconstructing the idea of an objective reality: HERE.

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

I know you have asked this several times concerning non-duality.  If you are everything then why do you bother participating in duality if you realize directly that separation is imaginary. 

Well - in a non-dual state of consciousness or mystical state - at least for me - the one where i had the realization of Oneness - i actually couldn't function in duality.  Maybe some can but i couldn't because i was in a state of consciousness where i was directly conscious that i was talking with myself.  In that realization I realized i was completely alone and that was too shocking to bare.  The duality of self/other had completely collapsed.  That's why its called a non-dual state.  

Now - over time - let's say a week or so, consciousness levels returned to the level needed for proper functioning in duality.  In other words you come back to human levels of consciousness - aka the ego.  The mystical state can be thought of as God mode and in that mode the ego has dissolved.  But back as the ego, the duality of self/other is again created or imagined.  (You are imagining that it is real - which then in turn becomes real for you)  Thus you can participate and have a sense of self and others.   It didn't go as smoothly for me as that but that is a quick summary.  So when we talk from the Absolute POV we normally are not presently in those non-dual states of consciousness.  

Everything is simply as real as it seems.

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Everything is simply as real as it seems.

Yeah i guess i could have said it with a lot less words - you are imagining that it is real

And imagination is reality   usually we just use one liners around here though so some context may help someone who knows...

 

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yeah i guess i could have said it with a lot less words - you are imagining that it is real

And imagination is reality   usually we just one liners around here though so some context may help someone who knows...

 

Yep. But I literally know nothing. At all. This is nature’s way of masturbating. Obviously. lol.

[An young being]

4 hours ago, Dodo said:

I am not talking about a mere love

the Love beyond knowing

the Self that Got me. In our sleep we create pain and suffering which are very real. Be Kind and Fear not being in the Love.

Be a force for Good and help humanity ascend. Ascension is real. The Devils go to the Devil, the Good go to God. Be a good person, do not assume you know. I have been mindfucked a bit too much by the Self vortex and might sound crazy.

 

I will give you an example of where you are right now : Is it possible, that in your sleep you are dreaming that you can do anything and you will be forgiven. Because God for you is the god of air, the God of absolute freedom. 

What if God is actually not the God of absolute freedom, but one that is testing you whether you will be good or bad , whether you choose the pleasures of the devil or the one True God of Love and Light. How can there be any change in Man if Man believes he can just keep satisfying his lowest urges and disrespect creation in the name of God? It is silly. Become a force for Good, anchor love and light. Humanity needs you. No matter how you sound to the rest, the only one you need to report to is the Spirit of Love. The Spirit of Love is real and it is you. I intuitively know. I cannot know, I can never know the Divine Glory. I can only do my best in my ignorance. 

Do you want to see the Truth of creation?

 

The only thing that makes Humans different from animals is that humans are able not to think only for themselves. They are able to go beyond survival. An amoeba doesn't care about love. Love came later in time. Survival came first. If there is no survival, there is no love. If human beings need something called a purpose, then it would definitely be love.

Any purpose that is concerned with ego like success, money, fame etc. are concerned with survival of the body which is essential but not the ultimate.  They came from the amoeba. They help us to carry love for a longer duration in time, because without the body, there is no self to propagate love.

We need not love everything. We need not love rape, murder, hate etc. But we need to love the fact that all these were essential for the survival without which we won't even be here. They are the initial suffering we achieve similar to the suffering of a mother during birth. We cannot ignore the suffering, we appreciate it, that's a broader aspect of love.

So, what do we do now? We are still in the middle of the life cycle and really don't know where we will end. So, trust your intuition first. Trust people but not believe any of them. We need to trust others, because there are some minds which are evolved much better than rest of us.

Like @Dodo propagates, love is something to do better than doing nothing at all. A tree can do that. Being in the now and letting life flow is also fine, because life naturally flows towards love.

If you are proof seeker, just take a look at history and see how much crimes have come down and concern for others has increased. Even in the present, we always talk about climate change, preventing rape and even saving poor animals which are no way related to our own survival. 

Still we need suffering because still we are not safe from meteorites, famine and not even a simple knife. Nature is cruel of course, because it doesn't know any other way, but it tries to be good, after all, just like the rest of us. That's the spark we need to carry forward for the complete experience of life.

So the broader life mantra is this: Be in the present, realize the true nature of life to overcome suffering and spread love. You can also be a devil and do whatever you want , but that will affect only you at the end.

[Rampaginae]

"What's the point in talking to others if they're imaginary?" The same line of thinking applies to a lot of things. Why do kids play with toys and make voices up for each character and role they're playing. Why do we watch movies for characters that aren't extant and won't meet. Why do we make a huge investment into the valuation of others, if we aren't experiencing their perspective at this exact moment, and may never. Why do anything if the grave is the location your body is going to inevitably. Whether the universe is more complex or not than a sole dreamer living a life in a 'virtual partition' so to speak (where other lives will be lived later), it doesn't really denote what 'point' there is. Frankly if you're going to live forever then the point is experience, otherwise you're limited by finite framework choices. It becomes not about maximizing pleasure but realizing all experience is pleasurable to an eternal beingness, because there is no survival concern. This night there's a nightmare, and tomorrow there's a utopia. It's qualia or phantasmagoria, which you can't attach a value to other than subjective dream-like ones, aesthetic rather than mechanistic.

 

That's what I think anyway, I don't actually have clear insights other than from what I observe of whatever's happening, and some relative logic to tie together. I use the analogy of virtual partition because computers and VR, simulacrums, whatever, it all becomes relevant if you start wondering how things could work nondual-ly and not have a fountainhead God who is the maintainer of a larger objective reality. The man behind the curtain so to speak. If thing's are truly one, then anything outside of what is, isn't. There's just this, in this scheme of things. So, if you want to get a universe of people all living and doing things, any number of things, with different lives, then it seems like the subjective experience you currently are having already seems to point at This life being 'partitioned' because it would be compatible with what's going on anyway. If other people exist, it doesn't seem to make a difference, whether their lives is scheduled to be real soon or if they're simultaneously occurring with a 'veil' between perspectives or 'blinders' on like an ego having its sight limited. If God can dream anything up, he's not limited by some mechanical capability, it just is produced.

 

Which I guess means that maybe we're splitting hairs over a singular dream and a multivariant dream. But again, oneness means something can't be separated. So there cannot be two experiences going on simultaneously because A is A and B is B, and B would be outside the experience of A, which means it isn't observed because it wouldn't be 'in' or as consciousness. My main point is it starts to sound like it doesn't matter, lol.

[from chaos into self]

What is actually there is reality. Thinking is not reality. Direct experience is reality. Context is not reality, the connect is imagination, belief. It’s foolish to believe the outside world is real. But it’s wise to see it for itself. The ground is hard. Thinking that is belief. Experiencing it is actuality. If you want reality, experience it for yourself. It’s foolish to think. But it’s wise to experience. Experience reality, don't contextualIze it.

 

 Enlightenment isn’t thinking the outside world doesn’t exist. Enlightenment is experiencing the world without conceptualizing it.

[Someone here]

12 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

I know you have asked this several times concerning non-duality.  If you are everything then why do you bother participating in duality if you realize directly that separation is imaginary. 

Well - in a non-dual state of consciousness or mystical state - at least for me - the one where i had the realization of Oneness - i actually couldn't function in duality.  Maybe some can but i couldn't because i was in a state of consciousness where i was directly conscious that i was talking with myself.  In that realization I realized i was completely alone and that was too shocking to bare.  The duality of self/other had completely collapsed.  That's why its called a non-dual state.  

Now - over time - let's say a week or so, consciousness levels returned to the level needed for proper functioning in duality.  In other words you come back to human levels of consciousness - aka the ego.  The mystical state can be thought of as God mode and in that mode the ego has dissolved.  But back as the ego, the duality of self/other is again created or imagined.  (You are imagining that it is real - which then in turn becomes real for you)  Thus you can participate and have a sense of self and others.   It didn't go as smoothly for me as that but that is a quick summary.  So when we talk from the Absolute POV we normally are not presently in those non-dual states of consciousness.  

So I'm imagining others is not true in the absolute? Only relative to a specific state of consciousness?  Which is what I tried to tell Leo but  he keeps saying that as an absolute Truth. But the absolute Truth can't be "said". 

 

22 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

That's my theory, yes. But don't know how it must be possible.

See I have realized existence is equal to direct Experience is equal to me being there to be aware.

So it's obvious that for somethings to exist I have to be aware of it. (I = awareness. I dont mean the ego)

But there are still some questions remaining, so in top of that clear realization I'm just making guessings, theories and suppositions on how everything else fits together.

On 10/24/2020 at 5:39 PM, Javfly33 said:

Like I said, right now is an idea. But "one day" it will be an actuality. 

   Well you made a thread asking if total awakening means you will live every life to infinity.. So are you just speculating?  Did  you have a direct experience of such things? 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Someone here

[Javfly33]

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So I'm imagining others is not true in the absolute? Only relative to a specific state of consciousness?  Which is what I tried to tell Leo but  he keeps saying that as an absolute Truth. But the absolute Truth can't be "said". 

 

   Well you made a thread asking if total awakening means you will live every life to infinity.. So are you just speculating?  Did  you have a direct experience of such things? 

I just answer it in the post you just quoted.

I'm speculating with the theory that I will live all possible life's of each human possible.

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

 

I'm speculating with the theory that I will live all possible life's of each human possible.

Because it's a concept. So only your life as Javfly33 exists? 

[Javfly33]

44 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Because it's a concept. So only your life as Javfly33 exists? 

My life as Javfly33 is also a concept.

What it exists are appeareances and awareness of this appearences. Lately I´ve found I am literally this appeareances because there´s not an "I" so I am whatever exists right now.

Right now exists colours and forms which my mind label as = screen, light, table, hands, glasses. That exists. Therefore right now I am the screen, light,  table, hands and glasses since there´s no separtion between reality and "I" since "I" does not exist.

Obviously a concept such as "There must be another person experiencing another appearence right now with different colours and forms" is a belief and a thought.