Isn't it foolish to think that outside world doesnt exist? and object doesnt exist?

[SpiritualAwakening]

We have given a label 'Human' to that which is incomplete. Seeing ourselves as just another concept of life. But the concept of 'human' is far from what we are.

[Moksha]

15 minutes ago, commie said:

Why not?

What has been your process like when you ruled out other explanations?

Nothing can be ultimately proven. I could just be dreaming about the tree and about the apple and about you, or all of this could be your dream instead. But that possibility seems far less likely than that the material world is real.

If you disagree, why are you taking imaginary time to discuss imaginary concepts with imaginary people in the first place?  

[4201]

35 minutes ago, Moksha said:

If there wasn't an objective tree, I wouldn't be able to observe it, sit under it, or pluck an apple from its branches. Nor would you be able to do the same, and come back to talk with me about it.

You assume there's a tree from what you observe, but you don't actually know if the tree is there, of it is fake. It is perfectly possible that this tree might be a plastic one, or an hologram. 

This is more obvious when you are blind, because then it's obvious how much assuming a blind person has to make about their environment. You do as much.

My problem is with the idea that there can't be an objective tree. It's as wrong as the idea that there is one. Truth is we don't know.

[Moksha]

@4201 I agree, but it is less plausible that the tree is fake than that it is real. Not that plausibility is ultimate proof of anything. As the philosophers are fond of pointing out, the only thing we know is that we know nothing.

Still, people claiming that everything is an illusion don't seem to believe their own claims. Somehow most of them continue eating, suffering, and trying not to die.

[Javfly33]

36 minutes ago, 4201 said:

My problem is with the idea that there can't be an objective tree. It's as wrong as the idea that there is one. Truth is we don't know.

the only problem is here is that you think that there is a tree somewhere outside your current experience.

The thinking and the "somewhere outside my current experience" is only possible with the paradigm of the physical outside reality.

Notice that you literally have to create a paradigm or set of beliefs (such a thing as a physical underying reality) for that phrase to make sense.

On the other hand, reality is already evident withouth beliefs.

You see a tree = there´s a tree. You don´t see a tree = there´s not a tree.

It´s so simple it´s outrigheous. On the other hand for a physical objective reality to exist, to have to belief in it.

This work is not about what belief or paradigm might be true. It´s about WHAT is TRUE. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Javfly33

[peachboy]

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

In physics sound is the air wave and not the input signal.

So how does physics distinguish between an air wave and a sound wave?

[AlphaAbundance]

 

[4201]

@Javfly33 Fair enough. Thanks for this exchange

[Moksha]

@Javfly33 You don't have to create a paradigm of reality for it to exist. Whether or not you perceive it, reality is.

[commie]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

Nothing can be ultimately proven. I could just be dreaming about the tree and about the apple and about you, or all of this could be your dream instead. But that possibility seems far less likely than that the material world is real.

If you disagree, why are you taking imaginary time to discuss imaginary concepts with imaginary people in the first place?  

So you have not looked into other explanations and chose to setup a strawman instead. What does "real" even mean in this context? The word is just as meaningful in dreams.

And why would it make more sense to talk to you if you weren't imaginary?

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

My problem is with the idea that there can't be an objective tree. It's as wrong as the idea that there is one. Truth is we don't know.

There could be something objective but we do know the word "tree" normally refers to a mental object.

[Moksha]

@commie Since when is reality a strawman? The isness of things speaks for itself. If you are going to claim that everything is an illusion, the burden of proof is on you. I'm happy to admit that I don't know anything, except the one thing that can be known.

Talking to someone that is real is sane; talking to someone that is not real is insane. If I am an illusion, why are you wasting your time spinning in insanity?

If you are so convinced that everything is an illusion, why do you behave as if everything is real? Are you willing to step in front of a train today, since you know the train is only an illusion?

[Dodo]

7 hours ago, Raven1998 said:

Isn't it foolish to think that outside world doesnt exist? and object doesnt exist? you can feel objects.. and material. isnt it?

Its foolish to believe we know what we don't know. 

I am an expert in not knowing, more than 10k hours of not knowing. So trust me, there is a higher power, iit is love. Only love knows the way. 

Its neither material, nor illusion. It's love actually, love is the guide. The only guide, see the love that passes understanding. Accept you don't know. Im a master at this, I can teach you. 

Let love guide you: here's the compass: Is this alligned with love ? 

[Dodo]

7 hours ago, Raven1998 said:

Isn't it foolish to think that outside world doesnt exist? and object doesnt exist? you can feel objects.. and material. isnt it?

Its foolish to believe we know what we don't know. 

I am an expert in not knowing, more than 10k hours of not knowing. So trust me, there is a higher power, iit is love. Only love knows the way, not me. 

Its neither material, nor illusion, we cannot say - leave it both and neither. It's love actually, love is the guide. The only guide, see the love that passes understanding. Accept you don't know. 

Let love guide you: here's the compass: Is this love

Drop trying to explain and just love. Love is the only way. Don't anyone fool you otherwise. They too are deceived. By their original assumptions.

[4201]

7 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Its foolish to believe we know what we don't know. 

I am an expert in not knowing, more than 10k hours of not knowing. So trust me, there is a higher power, iit is love. Only love knows the way. 

Its neither material, nor illusion. It's love actually. 

Why should I trust you if you don't know? 

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Its foolish to believe we know what we don't know. 

I am an expert in not knowing, more than 10k hours of not knowing. So trust me, there is a higher power, iit is love. Only love knows the way, not me. 

Its neither material, nor illusion, we cannot say - leave it both and neither. It's love actually, love is the guide. The only guide, see the love that passes understanding. Accept you don't know. Im a master at this, I can teach you. 

Let love guide you: here's the compass: Is this love

Drop trying to explain and love. Love is the only way. Don't anyone fool you otherwise. They too are deceived. 

Dude, come on man.

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, The0Self said:

Dude, come on man.

Deconstruct my sentence, deconstruct me, but you cannot deconstruct love.

My.message is clear, even if I am a fool.

The seeing is direct. Love is actually a higher power and you can trust it. Not me. Ask for yourself in your life. Is this love and you will see.

 

[Shin]

Cult leader 101

[Dodo]

3 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Dude, come on man.

Dude yourself because if anyone wants to actually awaken humanity now we cannot stick to methods that are simply making us out of allignment with love

Notice that if you lose all meaning you will be free from suffering, but you will not be able to love. It is not love, it is false.

[commie]

15 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Since when is reality a strawman?

What are you talking about?

15 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Talking to someone that is real is sane; talking to someone that is not real is insane.

How can I tell if someone is "real"? On a web forum, no less!

15 minutes ago, Moksha said:

If you are so convinced that everything is an illusion, why do you behave as if everything is real? Are you willing to step in front of a train today, since you know the train is only an illusion?

I'm not convinced everything is an illusion and you don't know how I behave. The strawman is strong in this one.

Edited October 23, 2020 by commie

[Someone here]

@Dodo what kind of pipe dreams are you stumbling upon recently bruh?