How is the map not the territory?

[Wisebaxter]

If reality is nothing but perspectives, why would the map not also be the territory? Isn't the map a part of the territory? If I say I believe something, isn't the fact that I believe it a kind of relative truth that's being experienced? In other words, the fact that I experienced a belief that I hold to be true, was a true event that hapenned, within reality. The experience was a relative truth, and that's part of the whole right? Reality is playing at creating maps, surely. That's a truth. To put it another way, why would my map not be an intrinsic part of the territory. 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Wisebaxter

[Leo Gura]

Obviously the map is the territory.

But also, it isn't.

The first step is to realize the map is not the territory. Which will take you a decade of work.

The next step is to realize the map is the territory. Which will take you another decade of work.

[Wisebaxter]

@Leo Gura Ah I see. So it's kind of paradoxical. I always forget to account for this. 

So both sides of the coin have to be understood. Basically they're both one and the same, and also completely different. All truths have to be present for reality to be infinite etc.. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Wisebaxter

[Nahm]

48 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

why would my map not be an intrinsic part of the territory. 

Imagine an image of a map of your house on the wall, coming from a projector. The map would be of the house, and could be said to be in the house, but also wouldn’t be existing. Light would be existing, looking like a map...and not even. Then what if you create a drawing on that map?

[Leo Gura]

39 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Imagine an image of a map of your house on the wall, coming from a projector. The map would be of the house, and could be said to be in the house, but also wouldn’t be existing.

And furthermore imagine that this house was in your dream

[DnoReally]

Fun fact: When you place a map onto the territory it represents, there is always at least one point on the map that is exactly above its corresponding point in reality, even if you scale it up or down or rotate it. Not sure if there is an isomophism to metaphyisics here tho.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by DnoReally

[universe]

Infinity is not to be mapped. ❤️

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, universe said:

Infinity is not to be mapped. ❤️

And yet it is

[Inliytened1]

@Leo Gura @universe. Oneness.

You're fucked.

[universe]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And yet it is

By no one 

[Jodistrict]

One way to look at it is in terms of information.  A map (i.e., model) is an abstraction.  An abstraction intentionally leaves things out in order to highlight patterns.   Thus, the territory would be 100% information and the model would be less than 100 %.   Consider, for example a picture divided into pixels with 10 grey scales and a finite number of colors.  The total picture would have a finite number of bits.  A program detecting all the edges in the picture would be an abstraction and a model with less information than the territory.  However, the raw picture itself does not have any edges.  It is just a matrix of pixels with different levels of grey and color. (Keep in mind that  you see edges only because your brain has a module that abstracts the edges from the territory).  Edges only exist in the model.  So the model is, in some sense, a different reality in itself (a territory) not contained in the original.    

[Carl-Richard]

Beware of concessions made to absolutistic viewpoints for explanatory reasons. In the analogy of the map and the territory, the "territory" is a concession to the self-proclaimed absolute perspective of a person (often a materialist's adherence to materalism/realism). When all perspectives are seen to be relative, in a sense, there are only maps OR territories.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

All maps are territory.

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

All maps are territory.

Ooooh that's a good one.

[Leo Gura]

Notice that you can create a map of a map of a map of a map, ad infinitum.

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Notice that you can create a map of a map of a map of a map, ad infinitum.

All maps are territory -> infinite maps -> the territory is infinite  

[Hello from Russia]

Dude, just go to any park and buy the $1-2 map they usually offer. You'll get fucking lost with this map, I guarantee you, happens to me every time

Edited October 23, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[Rilles]

When we say the map is not territory we mean the mind is not the direct experience.

To visit the territory you have to close your phone/laptop and your eyes. Boom! Now youre in the territory. Go explore the vast grassland of consciousness. 

[ajai]

@Wisebaxter  Even I am left perplexed whenever this phrase is used somewhere,

What I don't get is if it's gonna take 20 years to understand it throughout what tf it means and stands for, why'd somebody use it at the first place, ?

Anyway, although it's unintelligible wht I comprehend from it is- maps are designed by a cartographer, and thus he/she/it might not know the exact boundaries or the actual geographical parameters while designing or drawing the map due to inaccurate survey or whatever of the actual place/territory, the cartographer could just be wrong about one single point that don't match the exact territory, but the map is wrong if it's wrong hence it's not the territory per se, now relatively this can be used anywhere to infer similar meaning, ?

[Nahm]

@Leo Gura

What house.