About enlightenment, truth realization, abiding non dual awareness

[Marinador]

I like happiness as much as the next guy, but it's not happiness that sends one in search of truth. It's rabid, feverish, clawing madness to stop being a lie, regardless of price, come heaven or hell. This isn't about higher consciousness or self-discovery, or heaven on earth. This is about blood-caked swords and Buddha's rotting head and self-immolation, and anyone who says otherwise is selling something they don't have.

 

JED MCKENNA

[Gesundheit]

[Consilience]

I used to have this perspective. Now I disagree. The search for truth is derived from a desire for self knowledge, or knowledge of reality. What is the context for this desired knowledge? A belief of its intrinsic importance to the pursuit of happiness/the good life. We ‘believe’ we’ll somehow be better off with this knowledge, aka be happier, which is ultimately the context for such a pursuit. The happiness I speak of is a meta perspective to what Jed is talking about though. It is a happiness that transcends both heaven, hell, and any and all states of consciousness which is why the cost and answer to such a question “what is really true” does not matter. 

Just because this thread has already entered this territory with the quotes, yes “Im” writing in subject object duality. Gft over it please and thank you. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Consilience

[Inliytened1]

@Marinador There are many paths to Truth.   Decades of suffering, then stumbling onto it through the curiosity of an open mind can also be a path.  That is the one found not by seeking at all.

[Natasha]

@Marinador No one ever said stomaching the truth would be easy...for the ego. The rest is just a walk in the park 

[Fadl]

I think there is one real Truth which will bring peace, otherwise it is an illusion.

Illusion creates suffering and uncertainty.

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Marinador said:

the process to get to the finish line is about suicide, death, negation, hate of the dualistic universe. I don't know if you understand me

Utter, literal, self evident, nonsense. 

[Consilience]

2 hours ago, Marinador said:

@Consilience okey, I agree, I understand what are you saying, "The search for truth is derived from a desire for self knowledge" and "We ‘believe’ we’ll somehow be better off with this knowledge, aka be happier, which is ultimately the context for such a pursuit.", I'm with you, BUT we are talking about the process to obtain abiding non dual awareness, "This is about blood-caked swords and Buddha's rotting head and self-immolation, and anyone who says otherwise is selling something they don't have.", So in my opinion, when you pass the finish line all is good, we're happier, BUT the process to get to the finish line is about suicide, death, negation, hate of the dualistic universe. I don't know if you understand me

Hmm... I think I get what you're saying. Do you think it's really necessary to go about hating the dualistic Universe into annihilation? It seems like that's just more projection, emotion and self generated interpretation of experience, not Consciousness. 

[from chaos into self]

Jed is right that a teacher is just a log. But when we need to stay afloat, we need that log. We would drown without it.

 

But we can learn to swim. And once we swim we realize we had the strength all along.

 

 What gives us the most answers is doing the work ourselves. but learning from others’ words is possible and gives us some help along the way.

 

[Gesundheit]

[Gesundheit]

@Consilience

[Consilience]

@Gesundheit You completely misunderstood the happiness I was referring to. Imagine a happiness that is entirely independent of whether or not one is in a happy state. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Consilience

[The0Self]

43 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

@Consilience

Fucking hilarious if you ask me lol

[Nahm]

3 hours ago, Marinador said:

Well, are you sure? Do you consider at least the possibility of being true what Jed Mckenna says? I will hear anyone possesing abiding non dual awareness. Do you posses abiding non dual awareness? Anyone possesing it here? I'm not enlightend but I can see delusion from 1000 miles

Awesome. Now see awareness isn’t a possession, nondual means not two, and see the delusion right up close, where relief can be. There is only the enlightened one, and the very thought “I am not”, is the deluding. It is easier and easier to spot as judgement, or projection, or even more close to home - nonsense. (Feeling is self evident). 

Please take care to note, that I am not talking about a Jed McKenna. I am talking about the content. There isn’t a Jed McKenna, as a separate self, which possess any kind of awareness. 

[The0Self]

@Marinador

"Truth needs to exist" is a sentiment I've gathered from Jed.

Maybe, just maybe, it doesn't need to do that.

[Nahm]

@Marinador

No actually, not at all. ? Nonduality means not two, as in the subject & objects, or possessor and possession. Existence = awareness. That’s all that is. No one has it. Some claim they do, apparently. 

[Gesundheit]

5 hours ago, Consilience said:

@Gesundheit You completely misunderstood the happiness I was referring to. Imagine a happiness that is entirely independent of whether or not one is in a happy state. 

There is no such thing. You're probably talking about peace of mind, which is not an absolute state either. There is the fundamental teaching of impermanence that disproves of all eternal states as such.

[Consilience]

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

There is no such thing. You're probably talking about peace of mind, which is not an absolute state either. There is the fundamental teaching of impermanence that disproves of all eternal states as such.

I disagree. So would Peter Ralston who was the one that opened me up to the possibility a little over a year ago. Not that I should blindly take his word for it or you should blindly take mine. But we also disagree about Absolute Beauty so Im not surprised there’s a clash here haha

[Gesundheit]

12 minutes ago, Consilience said:

I disagree. So would Peter Ralston who was the one that opened me up to the possibility a little over a year ago. Not that I should blindly take his word for it or you should blindly take mine. But we also disagree about Absolute Beauty so Im not surprised there’s a clash here haha

Absolute beauty is another topic entirely though. But yeah I see your point, and I myself am a little bit shaky on the impermanence thing, but how would I ever know? Suppose I lived 10 years in peace of mind, how can I guarantee that would continue to be like that until my death? Another thing to consider is that we should also not disregard the years of suffering and internal conflict that preceded peace of mind. So, maybe peace of mind is not the final state, but just a stepping stone on the path towards something else.

[Leo Gura]

14 hours ago, The0Self said:

@Marinador

"Truth needs to exist" is a sentiment I've gathered from Jed.

Maybe, just maybe, it doesn't need to do that.

Of course Truth needs to exist. It has nowhere else to go.

If truth did not exist, THAT would be Truth, thus it would exist.

Truth is an absolute. It's EVERYTHING. The only thing that cannot exist is falsehood.

Jed is correct. But what he doesn't tell you is that Truth is Love.