Unsuitable enviroment for practicing music

[Applegarden]

Hello actualizers, in would really ask for your advice, analysis and your support.

My situation is this. I am a bedroom musician, mainly self-taught and play guitar. This is my 6th year of playing it. It is really hard on and off, but I like to practice so I got somewhat good with it and now i see a beacon of possibilities in my guitar playing and a massive inspiration to practice + I am getting more taste for practicing, creative wanking and learning guitar. It's just getting so good. I would modify my 8 string to microtonal, alter my tuning to lower one and would just practice the shit out of it, but there is one devastating problem that is literally crippling me to become an artist (I can still get really good if I play in my free time).

That problem is since i moved in back with my mother, I have this really butthurt neighbour. Basically he wants me to stop playing guitar at all costs. And he wouldn't hesitate to rage every day. Very important notice - I always play on headphones, and the actual guitar sound is not loud and now I play even quieter - just 2 hand tapping lead practice. That has to be below 50 dB (and i will have decibelmeter to measure the sound acctually). Even if i play syntesizer on my headphones he is triggered. This just sucks so bad. I am looking for a solution really, because I just underestood I want it really bad that I am going to die for it.

I have few solutions I think.

Buying a car, powerbank and a pedalboard and play there.

Buying a car and garage and playing there.

Changing the place I live and renting a place in Riga.

Look in playing options in local music school.

Focus on other aspects of music and leave guitar for now.

Creating a youtube channel talking about music and topics like these and struggles of musicians, rants, possibilities of music, various artists and so on and then finding like minded people and forming a band.

Long term:

Forming a band and living with bandmates;

Saving up a lot of money and either soundproofing the room im playing in or taking credit and buying a house.

This is just really unfortunate situation, but I have to do something about it. What do you think? I really do think I have what it takes regarding music. Feels super sad.

[Michael569]

I don't know how useful this is but look for cheap spaces to hire. Like a garage or a basement or maybe some old office? Lot of people rent space they own but don't use. Maybe someone somewhere won't mind you practicing if you throw 100 euros a month at them. 

[aurum]

@Applegarden

I think you came up with some good options for solutions. I would explore those.

However, I didn't see anywhere in your solution set to just talk to your neighbor.

If you're really playing that quietly, and I believe you are, then your neighbor needs to chill out.

You might just need to give them a firm talking. You're living in a shared space and you're entitled to make some level of noise. That's what people sign up for if they rent. If they don't like it, you're not trying to cause problems but you've got to do you.

In other words, don't sacrifice your dreams of being a great musician for a way too uptight neighbor.

For reference, I play guitar as well in a shared apartment complex. I certainly don't play with headphones on and I'm often singing. Never have I had a complaint. You should be entitled to do the same.

[Average Investor]

I would see if you can find some sort of a music store liquidating. I have seen the sound proofing foam and stuff pretty much for free. I am sure there might be more to it, but even that would help. 

[Yarco]

Are you in an apartment, or how could he even possibly hear?

If I lightly play an electric guitar not plugged into an amp, I don't think someone could hear me playing it in the next room in my own house...

Hearing synthesizer that you have plugged into headphones? No way... something about this story is super weird.

For a neighbor to complain about that, he'd need to have superhuman hearing. Either that or you have a curtain instead of a wall. He would also be complaining about every cough, keyboard typing, chairs moving on the floor, etc...

Also most places have reasonable enjoyment laws. Check what the bylaws are around noise in your icty. Usually it's perfectly acceptable for you to make noise during the day or at reasonable hours... that means playing musical instruments... dogs barking... whatever... as long as it's not crazy loud or in the middle of the night. In that case I'd tell your neighbor to suck it, he can complain to the city or police but they won't do anything if you aren't breaking the law.

Can you practice in a room on the opposite side of your home, as far away from the neighbor as possible?

If he's complaining about guitar/synthesizer with headphones plugged in, then he's going to complain if you try to make Youtube videos or anything else too. If you are in an apartment, you might even want to complain to your landlord that he's harassing you.

If you just want to avoid conflict, then find a place that you can rent. Ask a friend if you can play at their place for a few hours per week, or if they've got a garage or basement or something you can use, maybe even offer to pay them a little for their trouble.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Yarco

[Applegarden]

22 hours ago, Michael569 said:

I don't know how useful this is but look for cheap spaces to hire. Like a garage or a basement or maybe some old office? Lot of people rent space they own but don't use. Maybe someone somewhere won't mind you practicing if you throw 100 euros a month at them. 

Maybe there is such a thing! I would have to look in our local trading websites, thanks.

19 hours ago, aurum said:

@Applegarden

I think you came up with some good options for solutions. I would explore those.

However, I didn't see anywhere in your solution set to just talk to your neighbor.

If you're really playing that quietly, and I believe you are, then your neighbor needs to chill out.

You might just need to give them a firm talking. You're living in a shared space and you're entitled to make some level of noise. That's what people sign up for if they rent. If they don't like it, you're not trying to cause problems but you've got to do you.

In other words, don't sacrifice your dreams of being a great musician for a way too uptight neighbor.

For reference, I play guitar as well in a shared apartment complex. I certainly don't play with headphones on and I'm often singing. Never have I had a complaint. You should be entitled to do the same.

Well the man in question is a really angry man, and I guess his way of making his point (of asserting his dominance or whatever nonsense?) is that. I wouldn't like to talk with the guy, but I feel I have to consider this. It fears me because he sometimes treathens to break my stuff trough the wall and kinda calls me names. I would love to do nothing but ignore the guy. 

 

19 hours ago, Average Investor said:

I would see if you can find some sort of a music store liquidating. I have seen the sound proofing foam and stuff pretty much for free. I am sure there might be more to it, but even that would help. 

Sure! I will see what I can do, thank you!

 

18 hours ago, Yarco said:

Are you in an apartment, or how could he even possibly hear?

If I lightly play an electric guitar not plugged into an amp, I don't think someone could hear me playing it in the next room in my own house...

Hearing synthesizer that you have plugged into headphones? No way... something about this story is super weird.

For a neighbor to complain about that, he'd need to have superhuman hearing. Either that or you have a curtain instead of a wall. He would also be complaining about every cough, keyboard typing, chairs moving on the floor, etc...

Also most places have reasonable enjoyment laws. Check what the bylaws are around noise in your icty. Usually it's perfectly acceptable for you to make noise during the day or at reasonable hours... that means playing musical instruments... dogs barking... whatever... as long as it's not crazy loud or in the middle of the night. In that case I'd tell your neighbor to suck it, he can complain to the city or police but they won't do anything if you aren't breaking the law.

Can you practice in a room on the opposite side of your home, as far away from the neighbor as possible?

If he's complaining about guitar/synthesizer with headphones plugged in, then he's going to complain if you try to make Youtube videos or anything else too. If you are in an apartment, you might even want to complain to your landlord that he's harassing you.

If you just want to avoid conflict, then find a place that you can rent. Ask a friend if you can play at their place for a few hours per week, or if they've got a garage or basement or something you can use, maybe even offer to pay them a little for their trouble.

Trust me they can, so I can hear them talking, watching TV e.c.t. The most hillarious part the actual regulations or sound are approx 35 dB in DAYTIME. That is just ridicilous tbh. I don't think I could defend myself legally even if I measure and monitor sound levels when I play. I measured today (with a 100 eur decibel meter from china ). In 1 meter of distance - 45 dB max with 2 handed tapping, 55-65 and up to 70 with other techniques, let me remind me that I play 8 string and i play metal so there will be intense pick attack and strums, still i maybe play 2 hour max per day (on a free day), and 99.9% time on headphones.

I feel its more that I attract the neighbours kids attention, because they like when I play and always knock for more when I don't play and sometimes shout and cry when I don't play. Anyway the neighbour shouting at me in this anger teached children the hypocrisy and they pay even more attention to me and the neighbour goes even more angry. He is not capable of deep self-reflection also... He just wants the easy way out to fear me into not playing with whatever he can do - disrupting my sleep, calling me names, talking shit e.c.t. Even his wife disagrees with him wether he should disrupt my sleep or not. All I do is I ignore and just let go of his projections within me and he gets even more mad, how can he possibly know wether his violence works if I don't give feedback. Honestly I fear physical assault. Either from him or from somebody who was sent my way because of him. Eventually I feel garage is the best option. But I want to play so bad and i have this tremendous creative capacity and wilingness to share I am willing to die for it, otherwise this is just boring and just not how it should be at all.

[UDT]

@Applegarden  
 

Cant you just turn on the tv or radio and play while the radio is actually louder than your strings?

Second thing is, why not just take your guitar outside and practice like that? I mean you dont get the feedback but you still can practice 

Third thing, bro train some fighting skills and smack that dude. Sounds like hes bullying you

[aurum]

4 hours ago, Applegarden said:

It fears me because he sometimes treathens to break my stuff trough the wall and kinda calls me names. I would love to do nothing but ignore the guy.

I totally understand, it's not going to be an easy conversation to have. If you're living with your mother maybe ask her for help.

It just seems to me that this guy is basically threatening / bullying you into complying. And you're twisting yourself around to meet his demands. It's not normal.

Even if he had a legitimate concern with your level of sound, the way he is handling it is not appropriate. He should be the one initiating a mature conversation here, but it looks like you're going to have to be the adult.

[Nahm]

@Applegarden

This is an atrocity and it can not stand. Pm me his address and I’ll come straighten him out. 

Maybe sitting at the other end of your place?  Otherwise the foam board is the way to go. I’ve nailed sleeping bags inside out on walls in lieu of foam board and it works great. You could put several layers, and thick blankets would work alright too. Could also use your mattress. Also, be sure to learn some Yngwie Malmsteen, so if he comes over and gives ya any trouble you can just melt his face.

[Applegarden]

3 hours ago, UDT said:

@Applegarden  
 

Cant you just turn on the tv or radio and play while the radio is actually louder than your strings?

Second thing is, why not just take your guitar outside and practice like that? I mean you dont get the feedback but you still can practice 

Third thing, bro train some fighting skills and smack that dude. Sounds like hes bullying you

The first thing, i am not sure, I always do everything on headphones, but If I have problems with that I possibly could blast somepodcast, get noise cancelling headphones and just keep practicing, but that is a lose lose for other neighbours who don't say anything bad and acctually like when I play, I know because they play loud music for short moments of time when I don't play.

About the second thing... Yes, I am really looking at the other solution but with a car. I would get a footswitch - pedalboard, power bank and a car and then go somewhere and play in a car. Just going out with 750 eur electric guitar and possibly an amp or smth that makes it sound electric in open, generally a bad idea unless you are busking in groups which never happens. Very big chance I i will just get ambushed by some drunkard or peer in my age range.

Third thing - by all means, sometimes self-defence is something that potentially can save your life, no question, but I would rather use it when I got just about nothing else left to do and in situation where I have to defend myself. I know just some basics, how to stand and how to throw some punches, almost have been knocked out in a sparring in something like fake muay-thai course few years ago for 6 months. My bodyweight is also really low but I have long hands and I am agile, I could maybe strike him by suprise and maybe get him fast and continiously - by making him lose balance or hit and run, but extende fight is bad news for me even if he is not in shape. And besides if I decide to fight it brings bad karma, and trauma in some way to you that disrupts you life-positivity, because of the very tangible sense of anger you created. This mindset makes me like him, and I don't want to think nearly as that man. Anger is all he knows. And besides, risking falling and knocking my head aginst the conrete, breaking my hands or feet or get some internal bleeding. Atll this will set me back if not paralyze me and obviously if i get into all this, I lose, probalbly some bodily capacities for life if i get unlucky. So no attacking from me. Besides is feel so non-violent, i will never punch anybody for life. That feeling has left me long time ago. I don't feel like my life is centered on people in general, there is just some personal fears about me not being able to fullfill my potential due to somebody being violent due to their cunningness.

Just now, aurum said:

I totally understand, it's not going to be an easy conversation to have. If you're living with your mother maybe ask her for help.

It just seems to me that this guy is basically threatening / bullying you into complying. And you're twisting yourself around to meet his demands. It's not normal.

Even if he had a legitimate concern with your level of sound, the way he is handling it is not appropriate. He should be the one initiating a mature conversation here, but it looks like you're going to have to be the adult.

Believe me, I am considering coming at him and talking about this. But in order to do that I need a perfect timing when he is screaming at me trought the wall - when he is really ad-homonym attacking me and i need to mentally prepeare to make a list of very good points. The aim to my conversation is to bring up my point of view and disturb him in a sense - as many times I need to say thing like - being louder won't make you right, you are responsible of how you feel and you can change that, you are teaching children indirectly with your behaviour, you are using victim mentality as a reason to abuse me, can you stick to the point, me sitting in front of computer screen and doing whatever I am doing is not the subject of this point and none of your business and get back to the topic and things like that... i wan't to force him out of this victim mentality mindset where he can't intellectually go anywhere and has to self-reflect. I basically want to challenge him and deeply shake his values by exposing how he is handling things acctually and that its not approriate and not acceptable in any way. If he tries to school me and talk about manlyness i will say - if you are so manly, stop disrupting my sleep, have respect for others, look at yourself and what you can do to improve your life, you don't underestand me because you don't want to, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY COME OUT OF YOUR GRAY AREAS AND VICTIM MENTALITY AND GET BACK TO THE TOPIC AND TALK TO ME LIKE A MAN. I just know there is so high chance of me getting punched, but I haven't ever delivered such straightforwards criticism and evolving of my character of assertiveness has to happen in order for me to chase my dreams. This is too important for me and I underestand I said i have to do what it takes, so I will go when I feel the time is right, until then I will journal about this so it is wired in my brain very good, so no amount of fear can influence my points and wherever he is trying to mislead the conversation. And of course thanks for poiting it out to me, "What he is doing is illegitimate - if he disagrees in any manner and keeps disrupting my sleep, keeps yelling and obviously the child usually knocks at me, sometimes at night also - that means I can make noise too, which I am not going to abuse like them, BECAUSE based on 35 dB limit, you are iterally making noise when you are doing just about anything, even talking, shouting, watching TV, cooking, washing cothes, knocking, doing construction, walking, partying and listening to loud music e.c.t." So pointing out this hypocrisy and getting him to say "I don't care" is a psychological win for me to blast him with my points and get him into dilemma, so he just HAS to think in other perspectives. I think he will get back to anger and shouting e.c.t but then I will have to constantly remind him that shouting doesn't make his points more true. Maybe the one thing that I have done that i can name is sometimes dropping something at night (and I usually go to sleep pretty early, but I need only 6 hr of sleep and another could be that my aarm rings twice sometimes - in recent months that has happened maybe 2 times, but it used to be a pattern for me more than a half-year ago.) 

I would also have to talk about the comprimise part - since I am anyway looking at other options, 2 hours of systemic practice in the period from 9am to 9pm (just on guitar) is more than enough to land a not too technical music project, since there are many other skills involved in music production that i can do afterwards like analysis, sound production, composition e.c.t. 

It will also shock him that I came to defend myself because I am usually super avoidant and ignore such people to death (and it works and it makes them really really frustrated, because their shit comes directly back to them because they don't feel validated by their projection of their violence) and I want to show him that. Unfortunately guys like these underestand confidence and violence, not the ethics.

Just now, Nahm said:

@Applegarden

This is an atrocity and it can not stand. Pm me his address and I’ll come straighten him out. 

Maybe sitting at the other end of your place?  Otherwise the foam board is the way to go. I’ve nailed sleeping bags inside out on walls in lieu of foam board and it works great. You could put several layers, and thick blankets would work alright too. Could also use your mattress. Also, be sure to learn some Yngwie Malmsteen, so if he comes over and gives ya any trouble you can just melt his face.

I would love to, you are basically immortal.  

I have given a good tought about sound isolation! I will see if that can work.

I am already siting at the end of the place and he sleeps in the other room. That of course doesn't stop him from coming and randomly shouting trough the wall or sleeping there to "check" i mean fucking up my sleep there.

Too bad I know little about Yngwie, he seems like a classical type shredder to me, I can somewhat shred, however I prefer to melt them by t h a l l i n g their faces off...

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Applegarden

[Nahm]

@Applegarden ☺️??