Gabor Maté on J. Peterson

[Tim R]

Welp... Sheds some new perspective on Peterson. I gotta say, I like Peterson, but rather for the sharpness of his intellect. Too bad and ironic that he fails to recognize such simple things as presented by Maté:

 

[Rilles]

Wow, watched this last night, gotta say i somewhat agree, cant say i feel his anger but something is off about JP which turns me off from him

[Leo Gura]

Obviously JP is seething with anger and bitterness. It's palpable. Cause he has spent his whole life fighting and denying his shadow.

Every Marxist he rails against is his own shadow and it's obvious to any spiritually advanced person.

[PurpleTree]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Obviously JP is seething with anger and bitterness. It's palpable. Cause he has spent his whole life fighting and denying his shadow.

Every Marxist he rails against is his own shadow and it's obvious to any spiritually advanced person.

Isn't he basically a Jungian and Jung is all about shadow work etc.?

Anyway i think it's a decent observation from Gabor Maté, i wouldn't mind to see a debate of the two. Could be better than Zizek vs Peterson.

Edited October 21, 2020 by PurpleTree

[Leo Gura]

41 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Isn't he basically a Jungian and Jung is all about shadow work etc.?

Have you not realized yet that talk is cheap?

JP cannot know what shadow is because he isn't infinitely conscious.

Parroting psychological theories will never be enough to substitute for consciousness work -- which he obviously isn't doing because he's created a career out of fighting his shadow. Pays well to punch yourself in the face. But not so good for mental health.

If JP ever understood what he is really doing, he would have an existential crisis that would make his benzo addiction look like cake. He'd be so disgusted with himself that he'd want to kill himself. And the only thing that would save him is Love.

[intotheblack]

@Tim R Gabor mate is great did you listen to any of his other talks? He’s so compassionate

[Lyubov]

I’ve listened to JP speak on Jungian concepts but he seems quite ignorant on it like he is just reciting stuff in a book. Far from actually understanding it on any sort of experiential level. I can relate to having a lot of pent up anger and unconscious repression. I’m still working through this myself. I’m conscious of this though and learning to integrate these aspects of life. Sometimes feels like it takes forever though or like I’m blind to aspects of the overall pattern  what to do?

[Rilles]

4 minutes ago, intotheblack said:

@Tim R Gabor mate is great did you listen to any of his other talks? He’s so compassionate

Ive read his In The Realm Of Hungry Ghosts, great book on heavy addiction, very compassionate man. 

[herghly]

Great video. Gabor Mate is much more developed than JP

[Tim R]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

JP cannot know what shadow is because he isn't infinitely conscious.

Excuse me, but since when do you have to be infinitely conscious to (at least partially) understand and integrate your shadow? This is ludicrous.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Tim R

[Forestluv]

Gabor is skilled in empathic modes of being. In a SD context, this is mature, embodied Green. Those centered at Blue / Orange with resistance to Green should watch more of these video types, rather than focusing on immature greens demanding 137 personal pronouns and protesting at professors homes. 

[Lyubov]

36 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Gabor is skilled in empathic modes of being. In a SD context, this is mature, embodied Green. Those centered at Blue / Orange with resistance to Green should watch more of these video types, rather than focusing on immature greens demanding 137 personal pronouns and protesting at professors homes. 

He seems quite yellow as well. There is depth and dynamism and an openness to considering JP's viewpoints as well that accompanies his holistic views on JP. 

[Preety_India]

Gabor Mate is a wonderful man. 

 

[Forestluv]

19 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

He seems quite yellow as well. There is depth and dynamism and an openness to considering JP's viewpoints as well that accompanies his holistic views on JP. 

I agree that Gabor has yellow form - in particular yellow with strong integration/embodiment of Green beingness such as empathy and emotions. Another yellow form would be Ken Wilber who has more of an intellectual/conceptual/academic meta understanding of Green. 

As well, it's somewhat rare for yellow males to have integrated/embodied Green beingness. It's more common in yellow women. Yellow men tend to be more conceptual. For example, Gabor does empathy as a mode of being and understanding. Wilber would have more of a meta conceptual view of empathy (from my POV). 

There can be various expressions of Yellow, similar to Tier 1 stages. For example, someone centered in Orange could be a highly motivated businessman that desires personal recognition and wealth. Another expression is an Orange scientist that doesn't care about personal recognition and wealth. The orange scientist is motivated by gaining knowledge and facts about the physical world and winning debates. Two different expression of Orange. 

[TrustTheProcess]

32 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I agree that Gabor has yellow form - in particular yellow with strong integration/embodiment of Green beingness such as empathy and emotions. Another yellow form would be Ken Wilber who has more of an intellectual/conceptual/academic meta understanding of Green. 

Do you think that this could be related to personality types?

[Rilles]

Dude is definitely Green/Yellow. 

[intotheblack]

Dr Gabor maté - why capitalism makes us sick 

Edited October 21, 2020 by intotheblack

[Forestluv]

30 minutes ago, louhad said:

Do you think that this could be related to personality types?

Yes. Yet I consider 'personality types' to include many influential factors such as genetics, childhood rearing, life experience, society etc. In theory, the attachment / identification to a personal construct is transcended into Tier 2, yet there is still an expression of a personality. I'd also say that each being has a range of perceived personality. Some people have a wide range and fluidity - others are more narrow and static. 

A conversation with Marianne Williamson, Deepak Chopra, Russell Brand, Gabor Mate and Ken Wilber could include a detached meta view of the personality construct and each being is simultaneously an expression of a personality. 

Imo, one of the most common misconceptions about Yellow is that it is a certain thing and looks a certain way. It's not until a mind visits yellow that it realizes "Omg, there is A LOT of diversity here in Yellow-ville!".

[tuckerwphotography]

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

I agree that Gabor has yellow form - in particular yellow with strong integration/embodiment of Green beingness such as empathy and emotions. Another yellow form would be Ken Wilber who has more of an intellectual/conceptual/academic meta understanding of Green. 

As well, it's somewhat rare for yellow males to have integrated/embodied Green beingness. It's more common in yellow women. Yellow men tend to be more conceptual. For example, Gabor does empathy as a mode of being and understanding. Wilber would have more of a meta conceptual view of empathy (from my POV). 

There can be various expressions of Yellow, similar to Tier 1 stages. For example, someone centered in Orange could be a highly motivated businessman that desires personal recognition and wealth. Another expression is an Orange scientist that doesn't care about personal recognition and wealth. The orange scientist is motivated by gaining knowledge and facts about the physical world and winning debates. Two different expression of Orange. 

@Forestluv This is really interesting and resonates a lot. For the purposes on conversation, I wonder if part of Wilbur's expression of Yellow is connected to his elevated states of consciousness. Perhaps fully embodying and being constantly aware of the illusionary aspects of Life make him come off as seemingly disconnected, almost like he's on a different plane than Gabor who feels more grounded in everyday social dynamics of this dualistic world. I guess the exact opposite argument could also be made, so perhaps this is a mute point. Just thinking out loud...

Edited October 21, 2020 by tuckerwphotography

[Forestluv]

26 minutes ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@Forestluv This is really interesting and resonates a lot. For the purposes on conversation, I wonder if part of Wilbur's expression of Yellow is connected to his elevated states of consciousness. Perhaps fully embodying and being constantly aware of the illusionary aspects of Life make him come off as seemingly disconnected, almost like he's on a different plane than Gabor who feels more grounded in everyday social dynamics of this dualistic world. I guess the exact argument could also be made, so perhaps this is a mute point. Just thinking out loud...

According to SD theory, once a stage has been transcended a being has access to that stage and all lower stages. For example, a being centered in Tier2 would have access to binary thinking, spectral thinking and relativistic thinking - and they could use which ever mode of thinking is best for a given situation. Yet this doesn't mean that the being as access to EVERY aspect of lower stages. Different beings have different abilities, skills and preferences. 

Could Wilber prefer to be in a 'lofty' state of consciousness few people can relate to? Sure. Could Gabor prefer to stay grounded in 'real life' human issues? Sure. . . . Yet as an individual human being, the being has limits. As Ken Wilber, the being is not Gabor Mate or a frog. 

I would only be able to 'test' if Wilber or Gabor has access to aspects for the aspects I have access to similar. One can only 'test' the level of another's language fluency in languages they are fluent in. I'm non-fluent in Chinese and partially fluent in Spanish - thus I couldn't test one's fluency in these languages. . . In the 'languages' I have fluency in, I would need to directly interact with the person to get their sense of fluency. For example, I've seen several interviews in which Ken was asked a softball question in the "empathy language", yet he answered with intellect. Gabor would have hit the ball out of the park. This suggests that Ken may not be fluent in empathic beingness. It's also possible that his preference was to speak the "intellect language" in these situations. I don't know for sure. I would need to sit with him and directly ask him if we could communicate through an empathic language to see if he is fluent. 

And the imagery I write of is just within one lens within one theory (SD). It is not objectively 'right' or 'how it is'.