A question to Leo

[commie]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Both the materialist' view and the solipsist's view is cirualr. The conclusion is already in the assumption.    The assumption that you start with is the conclusion that you end up with.   So it can't possibly be true.

My question was: what's the assumption? I have no idea what "the materialist' view" is even about.

12 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

What is the only way that Barack Obama life can exist? 

That "exist" is defined in a way that is compatible with Barack Obama life.

Edited October 21, 2020 by commie

[Inliytened1]

@Someone here is solipsism what you were asking about or materialism?  Are you more concerned with whether or not your experience is all there is or that there is dumb matter behind the scenes and consciousness happening in the brain?  It seems the thread is all over the place but the question of whether there is a physical refrigerator behind the scenes was what you were asking about rather than POVs?  There can be multiple finite experiences happening simultaneously and you as Consciousness cut yourself off from access beyond your finite consciousness - i.e Consciousness partitioned itself into a bunch of virtual partitions.  But you can hack your own partition and access the whole drive.  But this still doesn't mean there is a physical universe or a physical refrigerator independent of Consciousness.  In other words NO solipsism but still reality is a Mind.  Yes it is One so you could say its Solipism from God's perspective.  But not from each finite POV.  And still only the appearance of a fridge.

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

There can be multiple finite experiences happening simultaneously and you as Consciousness cut yourself off from access beyond your finite consciousness - i.e Consciousness partitioned itself into a bunch of virtual partitions.  But you can hack your own partition and access the whole drive.  But this still doesn't mean there is a physical universe or a physical refrigerator independent of consciousness. 

Yes that's your view.   I'm not sure if I know that for certain as you Claim. So I remain skeptical. 

[Dodo]

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Dont believe me find out for yourself

What is something that is also nothing?

A dream.  

 

You see the world as you are. You are dreaming - you are sleeping. Wake up to what you came here for. See what is happening. If you're dreaming, you can justify anything. If you're living in Love - Truth - you are awake. No more dream. No more slumber, but how sweet the slumber is, right?. Your mother Earth is calling you to wake up. It is crying. It is hurting. Look what humanity is doing, look! Walk the street and look at all the dreaming, everyone is dreaming, nobody is living IN LOVE. 

We are ALL culprits here. I was most deluded and in my delusions, in my dream, I have done things that are no where near who I came here to be, the energy I came here to anchor. Do you realise this is not a game? You can see it as a game. That's your right and freedom. There is a higher calling. Wake up from the dream and look. 

 

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yes that's your view.   I'm not sure if I know that for certain as you Claim. So I remain skeptical. 

Yes so you remain skeptical of both idealism vs materialism and solipsism vs (i guess non-solipsism?)  Because they are two different things....

[electroBeam]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes so you remain skeptical of both idealism vs materialism and solipsism vs (i guess non-solipsism?)  Because they are two different things....

Wonder what would happen if you/someone here/god did the counter intuitive move and dived into the scepticism, making the feeling of scepticism very deep, rather than trying to collapse it into solipsism or materialism or idealism. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by electroBeam

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Mu_ said:

@VeganAwake

@Nahm Let me know if this is in the realm of accurate.

Do you find it at all maybe pointing to something that neither Nahm or I have called anyone including you as not awake, and you some how (perhaps because your the most enlightened one here) are like a politician or a crass soul making rather large claims of certainty about us? 

How is it not even more ironic, that you accuse  us of things you admit don't even exist, such as others, or people or individuals, such as nahm and I.  Is just happening, yelling and accusing, no one with any volition of anything?

Oh, thats right, its not you doing it, just happening, and miraculously with opinions that are accurate to the truth?  Just happening accurate opinions and truths coming from nowhere.  Truths that no one knows, see's or can verify, because no ones there, just happening, but the ones exiting your body/mouth some how hold a validity, THAT AGAIN aren't happening from you or anyone and are somehow objectively true. 

Dude, lighten up maybe see some Truth in whats being shared.  I dont know but have you come to a place that if you were to reflect and see that maybe you were wrong or didn't see everything accurately that it would shatter what you have learned up to this point?  I know the fear, its like if your not enlightened then everything you've learned will have to be questioned and then maybe you can't trust what you've learned and understood and the well being found will disappear....

 

Notice how what was said, being accurate or not, does not make any real difference in apparent existence. It's only the identification with a thought that creates an illusory experience of someone there that feels offended and what was said was rude and unfounded.

Awakening isn't about learning or finding something that is absolutely true to unlock the gateless gate of liberation. The word truth suggest that there's something that's false. There is nothing that's actually false, there is only misunderstandings. So the word truth then would be a word pointing to everything without misunderstanding.

Its the loss of the individual that believed there was something that could be found.

In that sense it could be called unknowing.

See 'you' think there is someone here that believes it knows something or has attained something called Enlightenment... but enlightenment is the complete dissolving of the illusory Seeker that thought something was missing from everything(needed to be found and 'I'm' just the one to find it)

There is no concern here because when the illusion of self is completely seen through there's no one left that could lose something.

Anyways nice chatting with you, take it easy I was just messing with you guys to see what kind of reaction I could get out of you. 

I like to dabble in duality a bit sometimes to ruffle some feathers(divine game of Lila).

Sorry for all the strong conditioned thoughts and emotions that may or may not have risen.

nothing but unconditional love for everyone ❤

 

 

 

 

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Wonder what would happen if you/someone here/god did the counter intuitive move and dived into the scepticism, making the feeling of scepticism very deep, rather than trying to collapse it into solipsism or materialism or idealism. 

Well i can tell you that you should be skeptical and even with mystical experiences you will not have all realizations at once.  This is very advanced stuff as someone always says......in the end these are all words and Truth can only be found directly.  Until then the only thing we can do is try not to be too attached to a particular belief.

[Inliytened1]

15 minutes ago, Dodo said:

You see the world as you are. You are dreaming - you are sleeping. Wake up to what you came here for. See what is happening. If you're dreaming, you can justify anything. If you're living in Love - Truth - you are awake. No more dream. No more slumber, but how sweet the slumber is, right?. Your mother Earth is calling you to wake up. It is crying. It is hurting. Look what humanity is doing, look! Walk the street and look at all the dreaming, everyone is dreaming, nobody is living IN LOVE. 

We are ALL culprits here. I was most deluded and in my delusions, in my dream, I have done things that are no where near who I came here to be, the energy I came here to anchor. Do you realise this is not a game? You can see it as a game. That's your right and freedom. There is a higher calling. Wake up from the dream and look. 

 

I was talking about the structure of reality not the contents.

[electroBeam]

@Inliytened1  gotcha you're right.

You might not feel what I'm trying to say but, what if all your insights and realizations are one? Can't tell the difference between them, and scepticism isn't merely just being open minded or being sensible or whatever... at a very deep level scepticism is the collapse of all distinctions. 

'very advanced stuff' within the game of advancement 

and what are you actually 'finding' 

just go so sceptical that you loose your mind and see what happens. 

No one talks about just going extremely deeply sceptical to the point that you completely loose yourself, as if no one has noticed yet that scepticism is oneness.

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by electroBeam

[Someone here]

14 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes so you remain skeptical of both idealism vs materialism and solipsism vs (i guess non-solipsism?)  Because they are two different things....

Dude no point getting lost in those technical details.  For me objectivism.. materialism.. Realism are the same thing.. that stuff out there are out there not just in your head. Same solipsism.. Idealism the same.  There is actually different categories and subsets under each one of them so let's forget about the label and focus on the meaning.  For me now  I just don't know but I gravitate more towards that you are a real person in any case. 

[Inliytened1]

20 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

@Inliytened1  gotcha you're right.

You might not feel what I'm trying to say but, what if all your insights and realizations are one? Can't tell the difference between them, and scepticism isn't merely just being open minded or being sensible or whatever... at a very deep level scepticism is the collapse of all distinctions. 

'very advanced stuff' within the game of advancement 

and what are you actually 'finding' 

just go so sceptical that you loose your mind and see what happens. 

No one talks about just going extremely deeply sceptical to the point that you completely loose yourself, as if no one has noticed yet that scepticism is oneness.

 

Yes i don't know if i would call it skepticism but i was just gonna say that too much of trying to contemplate the infinite with a finite mind can send you to the loony bin real fast.  And you won't know what is true anymore... 

I have been there.   Not to that extreme..but no fun.  I prefer becoming the Absolute and realizing it directly

 

[Dodo]

19 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I was talking about the structure of reality not the contents.

empty words, empty talking. You see the contents as unreal, as I gather. You would not help the planet. You do not feel? Can you connect to the Earth center and feel it, rather than labeling it as "content" and being more interested in the fabric. Dude we get it, you are timeless and always in the present. That will not change if you stop clinging to it as a world view.

That's what I mean by not knowing. Allow yourself to consciously find the not knowing which you cannot doubt, just like the knowing which you cannot doubt (we have ticked the knowing which you cannot doubt, so no need to go further, you'v done that, thats no longer necessary to keep anchoring) . You have mastered that one. The heart is incomplete.

Do you feel complete? Did you come to planet Earth to know you are not a human or to be a human fully? If you are God, could you heal planet Earth for the rest of us mortals? Please? Awaken humanity to Love. If you are God. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Dodo

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Dodo said:

Please? Awaken humanity to Love. If you are God. 

That's what I'm trying to do but apparently with you its not working as you continue to try and strawman me.   And we were having a discussion about the nature of reality and you seem to want to wander off in other directions.

As far as awakening - maybe it's time to meditate my boy!  I cannot help a devil realize he is God.  Only the devil can do that.

 

[electroBeam]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

can send you to the loony bin real fast.

 

the loony bin is fun as! You're not living if you don't go to the loony bin!

 

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

And you won't know what is true anymore

Excellent!

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I prefer becoming the Absolute and realizing it directly

 

Some people have natural talents to be able to let go and follow intuition or have some natural skill for yoga like kriya yoga from the get go. Yet even still the thing holding everyone back is thoughts and mind(the body is much less so). And no matter how good you are at letting go and following your intuition, or how good you are at kriya yoga, if you lack finite mind skills like contemplation, scepticism, questioning reality, you'll never ever let go of all of the karma that's within the mind. The greatest kriya yogis may have exceptional kriya yoga practice, but without scepticism and questioning what's true and not (going to the loony bin) they will never ever guarantee themselves that their dogmas and ideologies are fully let go of. Reality is relative, and because of that, never will 1 technique or approach or perspective will do everything for you, and because reality is relative, open mindedness, questioning reality, not knowing what's true or not and going to the loony bin is essential for maximal results. And also its the only technique that works for spiritual retards like me. Its highly scalable and works for everyone. 

13 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes i don't know if i would call it skepticism

Totally had that view at some point. It takes inquiry to see what I mean. Perhaps contemplating what scepticism is, which you wouldn't do because you've already seen the Absolute. 

[Mu_]

49 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Notice how what was said, being accurate or not, does not make any real difference in apparent existence. It's only the identification with a thought that creates an illusory experience of someone there that feels offended and what was said was rude and unfounded.

Awakening isn't about learning or finding something that is absolutely true to unlock the gateless gate of liberation. The word truth suggest that there's something that's false. There is nothing that's actually false, there is only misunderstandings. So the word truth then would be a word pointing to everything without misunderstanding.

Its the loss of the individual that believed there was something that could be found.

In that sense it could be called unknowing.

See 'you' think there is someone here that believes it knows something or has attained something called Enlightenment... but enlightenment is the complete dissolving of the illusory Seeker that thought something was missing from everything(needed to be found and 'I'm' just the one to find it)

There is no concern here because when the illusion of self is completely seen through there's no one left that could lose something.

Anyways nice chatting with you, take it easy I was just messing with you guys to see what kind of reaction I could get out of you. 

I like to dabble in duality a bit sometimes to ruffle some feathers(divine game of Lila).

Sorry for all the strong conditioned thoughts and emotions that may or may not have risen.

nothing but unconditional love for everyone ❤

 

 

 

 

That’s a whole lot of description about nothing, along with a whole lot of reasons for what may or may not have happened. 

Mirror mirror in the wall who’s the most awake of them all @VeganAwake of course. 

There ya have it. 

Ya, like wise, it’s been fun.  I mean Fun not being here with ya I mean, did I say it right? ?

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

Some people have natural talents to be able to let go and follow intuition or have some natural skill for yoga like kriya yoga from the get go. Yet even still the thing holding everyone back is thoughts and mind(the body is much less so). And no matter how good you are at letting go and following your intuition, or how good you are at kriya yoga, if you lack finite mind skills like contemplation, scepticism, questioning reality, you'll never ever let go of all of the karma that's within the mind. The greatest kriya yogis may have exceptional kriya yoga practice, but without scepticism and questioning what's true and not (going to the loony bin) they will never ever guarantee themselves that their dogmas and ideologies are fully let go of. Reality is relative, and because of that, never will 1 technique or approach or perspective will do everything for you, and because reality is relative, open mindedness, questioning reality, not knowing what's true or not and going to the loony bin is essential for maximal results. And also its the only technique that works for spiritual retards like me. Its highly scalable and works for everyone. 

Totally had that view at some point. It takes inquiry to see what I mean. Perhaps contemplating what scepticism is, which you wouldn't do because you've already seen the Absolute. 

No i understand exactly. (I.e See Leo's video on Self Deception) 

What happens is you can get lost in your own mind.  You become so skeptical that you question your own mind.  And rightly so at times as you are always attempting to deceive yourself.  I think you mentioned in a recent post that you hit a point where you knew nothing.  I have been there too.  But yeah Absolute Truth is liberation from the suffering of the finite.  And total skepticism even of your own mind can be a way to go full circle and trigger Oneness - so yes i see what you mean.  It is paradoxical.  I wouldn't count on it though - you're more likely to end up in the loony bin.  Which i guess is fine by you

 

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Dodo said:

I cant believe you are not understanding me.

So you’re believing that I am. 

Quote

Re-read what I wrote. You are saying "Because you cant prove that there is something outside of awareness since once I show it to you, its in your awareness, THAT DOESNT MEAN that you can assume that there is nothing outside of awareness!!!! The correct Honest answer would be: I Dont Know!! Both the materialist is projecting AND the direct experience-ist is projecting. Projecting nothingness is still projecting!!

When you say ‘you are saying’ it isn’t what I’m saying it’s still what you’re saying that I’m saying. If you think about it, there is never a call for telling someone what they are saying. Sounds finicky & pedantic, but the path is that of deeper into subtly and nuance. Little kids play with big blocks, older kids play with legos. (Meant as an example not a personal implication) Nuance isn’t tedium, it’s organic. It’s relatively important to this convo because I already answered what you are asking. Just subtract what you’re saying I said. 

Quote

Seriously, NahM! Re-read what I said. You are playing circles, you are running in circles!! I cannot believe you dont see it>...! You sound to me like someone who is super smart but doesnt see the most obvious thing!! What the heck? 

Same thing. Already answered. Slow down when you read it. Read it ten times if need be. (If ya want to) Be mindful not to add to it. (If ya want to)

Quote

And the thing with 5meo its the same for a Christian with the Bible or any other religious 100% sure of itself dogma I have seen. I bet it gave you some pretty deep stuff. I have taken drugs before. But experiences != Truth Be it nondual experiences.

Experience does not equal Truth. That’s the kind of distinction Christianity (in large part) sells, which 5meo clears up. But you don’t need either, and you can notice, you are still ‘lumping me in’ with Leo, in the 5meo manor. That axe to grind elsewhere is more clouding here. You’re confusing yourself with the lumping, the telling me what I said, and the thinking / expressing in double negatives. You could cut your workload by like 50% in terms of energy. Maybe 60%. 90, even. (100 actually.) 

Quote

A Christian tells you : read the bible to know the truth

A 5meo-ist tells you : Stick some 5meo up your butt

Classic ‘othering’ here. That’s when you objectify people who don’t see things like you by labelling them. It a subtle way to ignore & remain superior. I had a protein shake today, does that make me a Shakist, a Shaktian? Christianity, 5meo...either, neither, and both are workable path options. I’m not sure the term direct experience has really ‘clicked’ for you yet. 

Quote

Well hmmm How about I just trust in What Is and be radically honest instead!

If you were radially honest you wouldn’t be believing in trust.  

Quote

There is more love in helping an old woman cross the road, then in getting drugged and experiencing infinity. Just sayin 

Right...cause you can only pick one. 

Choose wisely I guess.

[mandyjw]

37 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

I like to dabble in duality a bit sometimes to ruffle some feathers(divine game of Lila).

Sorry for all the strong conditioned thoughts and emotions that may or may not have risen.

nothing but unconditional love for everyone ❤

[electroBeam]

14 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

What happens is you can get lost in your own mind.  You become so skeptical that you question your own mind.  

 You're right, getting lost in your own mind does happen, but it usually happens from premature collapsing. Like you question your own mind then make shit up thats scary as fuck and then believe it from being so open. Its shit if you go half way with scepticism. Its full way or no way, between is hell. 

14 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I think you mentioned in a recent post that you hit a point where you knew nothing.  I have been there too.  But yeah Absolute Truth is liberation from the suffering of the finite. 

Mentioned it trillion of times, you'll find posts from 2016 where I was freaking out over not knowing anything.

But... the ultimate level of scepticism, the purest form of it, is the realization that there's literally no difference between anything. Its not I don't know if I cannot know anything, its I know I cannot know anything. Just proven, QED that its impossible to know. Its proof that seeking is futile. That's the ultimate level of scepticism. And its so amazing because everyone uses scepticism and don't realise what it is at an ultimate level. Its beautiful seeing how clueless everyone is. They think you have to be sceptical to ensure that you discover the right thing about reality (like the right thing is idealism, and not realism, or is absolute love and not god consciousness, or is infinite consciousness and not love consciousness, or is consciousness and not a 3D world... if only they knew that scepticism doesn't lead to any collapsing, it leads to complete uncollapse in its purest form, everything = each other, and if you remember how scepticism felt in the early days, that's exactly how it felt like, pure uncollapse).

Edited October 21, 2020 by electroBeam