A question to Leo

[Someone here]

Amazing video bruh  . Thanks for this. ❤️

I have a question.. You said that reality is NOT made of two layers.. The layer of appearance and the layer of "stuff behind the scenes". But rather it's just the layer of appearances.   You gave example.. You said My refrigerator is being held within my consciousness.. You said the refrigerator is the appearance of the refrigerator in the present moment and that's all that there is to it. There is no refrigerator behind the refrigerator.  And ofcourse that means there is no Leo behind Leo as well.   Now that's solipsism.  Please don't get critical about the label but that is what this philosophy is all about. 

Now you said that the universe is infinite mind and is literally capable of everything.. Universe =infinite mind.  Also you said why would the universe manifest itself through two layers (layers of appearance +layer of objectivity).. It's easier just to manifest itself directly as an appearance.   

My question to you... Why not? 

If the universe is infinite mind.. Why it can't msnifest through two layers? Or four layers?   Why can't my refrigerator exist when it's not in the first layer (being perceived)?  Isn't that you imposing a limit from your mind on infinte mind?. 

I hope the question is clear.  Thanks. 

 

[Osaid]

 

13 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 Why can't my refrigerator exist when it's not in the first layer (being perceived)

A "fridge" is literally perception. That's why it can't exist without being perceived. Until you perceive it again it exists as a concept inside your head.

The thing is, if the universe did have an extra layer for whatever reason, it would be completely undistinguishable from having just one layer. Something has to be perceived to exist, so in the end it is always one layer no matter what.

 

 

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Now that's solipsism.  Please don't get critical about the label but that is what this philosophy is all about. 

Well, if you want to get all philosophically pedantic, it is idealism.

Quote

My question to you... Why not? 

If the universe is infinite mind.. Why it can't msnifest through two layers? Or four layers?  

You are not thinking about this layering problem carefully enough.

If you have 2 layers, the second layer would still have to be held in consciousness. No matter how many layers you imagine, they would all still have to be held by consciousness.

And furthermore you're missing the beingness of the appearance layer. You cannot remove the truth/beingness of appearance by citing some other layer or thing, because appearance IS absolute truth.

The mistake you're making is that you think you can somehow ignore the truth of appearances, but you cannot, because anything that appears must be absolutely true.

This does not make sense to you because you are not conscious of what Absolute & Truth are. You have confused these things for concepts. But Truth is not a concept.

The only way to understand what I'm saying is after awakening.

[Inliytened1]

You can become directly conscious that there cannot be anything independent of Consciousness, because Consciousness is Infinite.  So, for there to be materialism, there would need to be something outside of Infinity.  

[Mu_]

@Someone here  I was about to say something, but Leo basically said it.  Another way to say the same thing in another way using your own train of thought, is if there are 2-4-8 layers, then the layers are made out of what??  Consciousness of course, and thus all Layers are always Consciousness.  This is what I've been trying to nudge you towards since you still see Ego and Human and Layers as layers unto themselves instead of layers made out of the same "......". 

[Gesundheit]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, if you want to get all philosophically pedantic, it is idealism.

You are not thinking about this layering problem carefully enough.

If you have 2 layers, the second layer would still have to be held in consciousness. No matter how many layers you imagine, they would all still have to be held by consciousness.

And furthermore you're missing the beingness of the appearance layer. You cannot remove the truth/beingness of appearance by citing some other layer or thing, because appearance IS absolute truth.

The mistake you're making is that you think you can somehow ignore the truth of appearances, but you cannot, because anything that appears must be absolutely true.

This does not make sense to you because you are not conscious of what Absolute & Truth are. You have confused these things for concepts. But Truth is not a concept.

The only way to understand what I'm saying is after awakening.

Cannot absolute truth be a concept? Why impose that limitation?

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

You can become directly conscious that there cannot be anything independent of Consciousness, because Consciousness is Infinite.

In other words, you can only be conscious of things you're already conscious of. Wow! Thanks for that dude.

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

So, for there to be materialism, there would need to be something outside of Infinity.  

Isn't infinity infinitely infinite, which means it's outside of itself? Paradoxical, but would you consider that proof of materialism?

[Gesundheit]

35 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

@Someone here  I was about to say something, but Leo basically said it.  Another way to say the same thing in another way using your own train of thought, is if there are 2-4-8 layers, then the layers are made out of what??  Consciousness of course, and thus all Layers are always Consciousness.  This is what I've been trying to nudge you towards since you still see Ego and Human and Layers as layers unto themselves instead of layers made out of the same "......". 

No. You're assuming that consciousness is the fundamental building block for the layers, but maybe it's not. Maybe it's something outside of your consciousness to comprehend. Have you considered that possibility? Maybe consciousness is not so efficient after all.

I disagree with the myth that being or God or reality is consciousness. To me, consciousness is a human projection onto reality, not reality itself. I don't make the mistake and confuse my projections for reality. I recognize my projections as projections. And I don't feel bad for not-knowing.

[Gesundheit]

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

A "fridge" is literally perception. That's why it can't exist without being perceived. Until you perceive it again it exists as a concept inside your head.

And who said if something exists as a concept it doesn't actually exist in reality? Why impose limitations of the human perception on existence?

[Leo Gura]

@Gesundheit Watch your ignorance.

[Inliytened1]

16 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

In other words, you can only be conscious of things you're already conscious of. Wow! Thanks for that dude.

Isn't infinity infinitely infinite, which means it's outside of itself? Paradoxical, but would you consider that proof of materialism?

Think about it.  Even if there could be an object  just floating out there with no one conscious of it - then there is no difference between it existing or not existing.  It's just Being.  So this should bother you.  Just like the old "if tree falls in the forest with no one around does it make a sound"

Refrigerators are nothing until you imagine they are.

And anything you say is outside of Infinity is Infinity imagining that it is outside of itself.

[Gesundheit]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Gesundheit Watch your ignorance.

Insightful response, as always.

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Think about it.  Even if there could be an object  just floating out there with no one conscious of it - then there is no difference between it existing or not existing.

I thought about it. There would be no difference to me. But that doesn't make my subjective perspective the absolute truth, only a tiny part of it.

[Preety_India]

@Gesundheit

Everything is consciousness. Nothing is outside of it. 

Is this hard to understand? 

Consciousness is infinite. 

Logically speaking, when something is called infinite, you need to understand that there is absolutely nothing outside of it. 

You can't speculate that there is something outside of 'it' when you have accepted that 'it' is infinite. 

 

This is basic understanding right? 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Preety_India

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Insightful response, as always.

I thought about it. There would be no difference to me. But that doesn't make my subjective perspective the absolute truth, only a tiny part of it.

And what if you discovered there was no you - but that you are an idea?

[Someone here]

3 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

A "fridge" is literally perception. That's why it can't exist without being perceived. Until you perceive it again it exists as a concept inside your head.

The thing is, if the universe did have an extra layer for whatever reason, it would be completely undistinguishable from having just one layer. Something has to be perceived to exist, so in the end it is always one layer no matter what.

 

 

Right from your limited human pov maybe it doesn't make sense to you.   But reconcile that with the notion that the infinite mind is capable of everything... And here you are saying "no except for this one thing it's impossible" .   A contradiction. 

Yes it is ONE layer but this layer is infinite such that it can be dissected infinitely.  So there is nothing that should make the refrigerator to not have a second layer. Actually that's how you relate to the refrigerator in your practical life because you understand that intuitively. 

The second layer is NOT outside of consciousness ofcourse. But it's outside of my consciousness.  

[seeking_brilliance]

Stare at the fridge long enough and it'll fade to grey. Move your eyes again and it'll reappear, like magic! 

[Someone here]

@Leo Gura these just innocent questions.. Lol 

1- if it's from your pov that nothing is outside of consciousness.. Who are you talking to? Your audience.. There is no one at other side of the camera hearing you according to your pov!  And if from my pov.. Why am I talking to you if you are just an image in my mind?. I assume that based on how I understand your pov. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

2- seriously how can someone not be conscious of the Truth?  What am I conscious of right now then?  What is this if it's not the Truth?.  Please explain that without just dismissing it as neo-advaita nonsense.  Actually show me how is this view "false". I feel like im about to have a breakthrough and major insights if I could put some pieces together. 

[integral]

 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Truth is not a concept

Truth cannot exist as a concept inside your head. I assume... 

Edited October 20, 2020 by integral

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Even if there could be an object  just floating out there with no one conscious of it - then there is no difference between it existing or not existing. 

There is ofcourse a difference.. Your whole attitude towards objects will change.  If something doesn't exist as soon as it disappears from your consciousness then there is no point going back to it (because it disappeared) but you don't actually relate to objects that way. You assume that if the objects disappeared from your consciousness.. You can come back and find them again. Doesn't that prove there is a second layer? 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Someone here

[Inliytened1]

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

There is ofcourse a difference.. Your whole attitude towards objects will change.  If something doesn't exist as soon as it disappears from your consciousness then there is no point going back to it (because it disappeared) but you don't actually relate to objects that way. You assume that if the objects disappeared from your consciousness.. You can come back and find them again. Doesn't that prove there is a second layer? 

There is the appearance of consistency - it seems like this is the part that is tripping you up...you mentioned it in a few other posts.  Such as when you look away from the moon and then look back it is still in the same spot.  But don't let that trip ya up into thinking there is a physical layer somewhere.  That's the work of an Infinite Mind.