I feel I am near enlightenment, but I cannot break through. Why?

[Vittorio]

This topic is mainly for people who already became enlightened or had at least advanced awakenings.

I will try to describe what I feel.

I made a trip 2 weeks ago where I lived a brief enlightenment experience.

In this trip I discovered amongst other things that I can become enlightened even right now, if I want it.

I set the intention that I want to get enlightened, because this would help me both in generating a much more meaningful vision/lp (service to others) and both living without pain, self-deceptions, limiting believes, needyness and such.

I want to feel myself complete and do a completely new fresh start.

Three-four days ago I started then feeling myself almost totally despersonalized.

I don't recognize my hands and my body anymore and I have a high state of presence and almost 0 monkey mind.

I don't feel love, compassion and such, just blank "apathy", calmness, placidity, neutrality.

Everything that's not staring the void/doing nothing/being present is felt to me as a distraction.

I have to force myself to eat, work and to do the rest of stuff that's necessary.

The apathy and the loss of motivation is not due to depression or such.

I don't feel myself depressed at all, but super present, mindless and tranquil.

I am doing hours and hours of meditation and self inquiry each day just like that.

I am having lucid dreams (both while awake and asleep) and I am living giant enlightenment/nonduality related synchronicites with my best friend (who is also in this forum).

I had the last lucid dream this night, where I was totally aware that was a lucid dream.

I had all the feelings I have in this world (uditory, tactile etc.). I even pinched my arm in the dream to prove it and said that I would tell my best friend about that dream, as soon as I woked up.

I am catching glimpses here and there of nonduality (e. g. everything is in 2d, the perceptor is "glued in" to reality, there are no internal or external worlds, there is only a sense of self made out by a mental construct which encompasses all memories, information, perceptions etc.,  infinity, what I am and so on).

I myself am generating profound nonduality insights about the nature of reality, energy, ego mind and such.

I can reach super crazy deep states of relaxation in few minutes, where I almost don't need to breath.

I can stop monkey mind in few seconds just by staring at it.

Still, I cannot break through and I don't know what's happening.

Even if I understood conceptually through sheer direct experience what I am and what it's all about, there is no shift happening.

I am feeling myself a bit frustrated. I don't know how to move forward.

I am feeling myself a bit demotivated, but I am still persisting.

Still, I feel I am near a major breakthrough and I feel I already have the key in my hands, but I cannot insert it in the lock and open the door.

Here are my questions:

Maybe I don't really want enlightenment and this is all mind trickery or such?

What's happening to me and why?

Why am I so depersonalized and I cannot move forward?

What should I do?

Thank you in advance!

Edited October 19, 2020 by Vittorio

[DreamScape]

Too much in the mind? Lol

Let go of the notion of meditation and self inquiry

[Vittorio]

20 minutes ago, DreamScape said:

Too much in the mind? Lol

Let go of the notion of meditation and self inquiry

I don't get it, sorry @DreamScape? Can you please elaborate more? I still don't know what's happening

Edited October 19, 2020 by Vittorio

[Vittorio]

@Leo Gura @Nahm

Can you please help me somehow and give me your personal opinions on the matter? I would really appreciate it. Thank you

[Visionary]

It looks like you need to ground yourself. By trying to understand everything you're dissociating from your senses, hence the depersonalization. Its rather about being involved in your senses than distancing yourself from pain by mental gains.

1 tip: throw away the attitude to attain insights. Its about you being the insight (which eventually comes with grounding and embodying the higher consciousness states). You cannot be the insight without doing body work. Body work is absolutely crucial. Don't be a slave to your mental insights/intellect or what you're able to achieve during meditations. This will all become very silly once you understand what it's truly about. The state of non-attachment can only come through involvement. Not through dissecting. Thats dissociation.

 

 

[Vittorio]

8 minutes ago, Visionary said:

It looks like you need to ground yourself. By trying to understand everything you're dissociating from your senses, hence the depersonalization. Its rather about being involved in your senses than distancing yourself from pain by mental gains.

1 tip: throw away the attitude to attain insights. Its about you being the insight (which eventually comes with grounding and embodying the higher consciousness states). You cannot be the insight without doing body work. Body work is absolutely crucial. Don't be a slave to your mental insights/intellect or what you're able to achieve during meditations. This will all become very silly once you understand what it's truly about. The state of non-attachment can only come through involvement. Not through dissecting. Thats dissociation.

Thank you @Visionary for your reply and for your tips.

I want to state, that I am not trying to do intentionally insight hunting, but to reach enlightenment.

I don't know what's happening to me. One day I just woke up and I found myself being despersonalized just like that.

I quoted everything I felt/I am feeling to give you a proper picture of what's happening to me, not to boast myself or such.

I want to explain what's I noticed about my mindset too:

I am trying to understand through constant brute force meditation/self inquiry what's happening and I am trying to search for that single thing that will "unlock" it.

Still, even if I understood what I am and what's all about, I cannot "unlock" it.

I get thrown there and here some nondual insights, but nothing more happens.

My depersonalization is still in force.

What do you mean "grounding myself"?

What do you mean by "You cannot be the insight without doing body work. Body work is absolutely crucial. Don't be a slave to your mental insights/intellect or what you're able to achieve during meditations. This will all become very silly once you understand what it's truly about. The state of non-attachment can only come through involvement. Not through dissecting. Thats dissociation."?

Edited October 19, 2020 by Vittorio

[DreamScape]

@Vittorio 'you are meditating' 'you are self inquiring.' 

just let yourself sit (BE) in your presence, your body, the space around you. being is fully embracing yourself and your thoughts. 

meditation should be like being sucked into the singularity that god is, and that singularity is the heart, such that your heart is the magnet you'll never be able to escape or go away from, heart based meditations are essential for grounding. grounding yourself is being in your body and life, and the heart is the anchor from mind to body.

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by DreamScape

[Vittorio]

2 minutes ago, DreamScape said:

@Vittorio 'you are meditating' 'you are self inquiring.' 

just let yourself sit (BE) in your presence, your body, the space around you. being is fully embracing yourself and your thoughts. 

meditation should be like being sucked into the singularity that god is, and that singularity is the heart, such that your heart is the magnet you'll never be able to escape or go away from, heart based meditations are essential for grounding. grounding yourself is being in your body and life, and the heart is the anchor from mind to body.

I understood through direct experience what being is. Still, I cannot understand your words fully.

Is it so that I am attaching myself too much on the outcome, I am saying it a bit materialistically and I should let go of techniques and labels and just bbe?

If yes, how can I "let it go"?

And what should I search for, if I am not doing self inquiry, but just be?

[Visionary]

2 minutes ago, Vittorio said:

Thank you @Visionary for your reply and for your tips.

I want to state, that I am not trying to do intentionally insight hunting, but to reach enlightenment.

I don't know what's happening to me. One day I just woke up and I found myself being despersonalized just like that.

I quoted everything I felt/I am feeling to give you a proper picture of what's happening to me, not to boast myself or such.

I want to explain what's I noticed about my mindset too:

I am trying to understand through constant brute force meditation/self inquiry what's happening and I am trying to search for that single thing that will "unlock" it.

Still, even if I understood what I am and what's all about, I cannot "unlock" it.

I get thrown there and here some nondual insights, but nothing more happens.

My depersonalization is still in force.

What do you mean "grounding myself"?

What do you mean by "You cannot be the insight without doing body work. Body work is absolutely crucial. Don't be a slave to your mental insights/intellect or what you're able to achieve during meditations. This will all become very silly once you understand what it's truly about. The state of non-attachment can only come through involvement. Not through dissecting. Thats dissociation."?

I see! Well grounding into the body makes no sense until you experience it for yourself. This whole path makes no sense without grounding. The problem with self-enquiry is that its very delicate business. Most folk here use it as a way to form new conclusions by dissecting reality. Self-enquiry is not about reaching conclusions at all.

So i would advice you to really take your time to search for the definition of grounding. And that still is far away from the actual experience. To me it looks like you're done awakening the mind. Its time to awaken the body.

Methods: breathwork, tai chi/qigong, yoga for example.

What i meant by that is that the only way you can become the insight is when the body and the mind are integrated into the consciousness. Do energy work to realize. Vipassana meditation is also very very powerful.

[Vittorio]

12 minutes ago, Visionary said:

I see! Well grounding into the body makes no sense until you experience it for yourself. This whole path makes no sense without grounding. The problem with self-enquiry is that its very delicate business. Most folk here use it as a way to form new conclusions by dissecting reality. Self-enquiry is not about reaching conclusions at all.

So i would advice you to really take your time to search for the definition of grounding. And that still is far away from the actual experience. To me it looks like you're done awakening the mind. Its time to awaken the body.

Methods: breathwork, tai chi/qigong, yoga for example.

What i meant by that is that the only way you can become the insight is when the body and the mind are integrated into the consciousness. Do energy work to realize. Vipassana meditation is also very very powerful.

@Visionary I still don't get what you mean by "awakening the body" and with "grounding" but I will reasearch that.

I am still confused about your assumptions about the nature of self-enquiry.

You wrote: "Most folk here use it as a way to form new conclusions by dissecting reality. Self-enquiry is not about reaching conclusions at all."

Leo told that self-inquiry is about finding your true self and disidentifying yourself with the idea you are a body/inside a body and that there is a solid material external reality and to understand, this is all imagination.

What's self-inquiry about then?

[Visionary]

Just now, Vittorio said:

@Visionary I still don't get what you mean by "awakening the body" and with "grounding" but I will reasearch that.

I am still confused about your assumptions about the nature of self-enquiry.

You wrote: "Most folk here use it as a way to form new conclusions by dissecting reality. Self-enquiry is not about reaching conclusions at all."

Leo told that self-inquiry is about finding your true self and disidentifying yourself with the idea you are a body/inside a body and that there is a solid material external reality and to understand, this is all imagination.

What's self-inquiry about then?

Imagination? Then jump in front of a train.

Disidentification? That is not dissociation. 

This is very delicate business once again. The reason people aren't doing self-enquiry the right way, is because they don't have the energetic awareness. They're mostly blind to what their hidden intentions are when self-enquiring. But you need to do it wrong a lot of times before you realize it for yourself. So i'm not saying you're not on the right track or anything. Just trying to spare you some time. I've been there myself 4 years ago.

Awakening of the body is where you go through all the trauma. Anchoring the consciousness into the body. That's also where the labels will fall away from what you thought your body was. It's the alchemization process. That's something far more different than dissociation.

Often people use this path to run away from being a person. Enlightenment is a way of not being "me" anymore. An escape from pain. This hidden intention is something that must be dealt with eventually. And it will be dealt with. But mostly further up the process.

And you will never understand what grounding means by my words. Just do research and start practicing. It's probably the best advice you can have on your journey right now. And like Dreamscape said... eventually it's about residing in the heart. Sounds very poetic and fluffy... but its actually very practical and essential.

[Leo Nordin]

@Vittorio hahahahah be lucky I am here, I have awakened recently. This is how I did it when I was ready. See if I tell you to sit down and do nothing, there is the body, the mind and energy. You can control all of them. So I turned everything off and you become a dead man, like an old man without any life energy left that rests all the time. Now It became clear how energy is created, so all the time I create energy and spend as little as possible for survival or "the greater good". 

You don't control anything, let your body and mind do what takes the least energy or willpower or what you will call it. Your experience of life will not be set to what happens only in the mind. Sometimes a thought or fantasy will come, your awareness will be a little everywhere. 

Your mind and body will definitely give you the most ecstatic experience because when the body/mind without spending energy will choose to give you the most pleasant experience. All you need to do is focus on energy which is not something you really focus on it's more what's there when you let go of suffering. It's not in the body or mind. I don't know how deep you can go, probably enlightenment and death might happen. I have things to do in this world so I haven't a single day been able to try and see how enlightened I can become. You laugh a lot and probably cry every day out of joy if you do this. You go deep into pleasantness. 

Did that do?

[Vittorio]

3 minutes ago, Visionary said:

Imagination? Then jump in front of a train.

Disidentification? That is not dissociation. 

This is very delicate business once again. The reason people aren't doing self-enquiry the right way, is because they don't have the energetic awareness. They're mostly blind to what their hidden intentions are when self-enquiring. But you need to do it wrong a lot of times before you realize it for yourself. So i'm not saying you're not on the right track or anything. Just trying to spare you some time. I've been there myself 4 years ago.

Awakening of the body is where you go through all the trauma. Anchoring the consciousness into the body. That's also where the labels will fall away from what you thought your body was. It's the alchemization process. That's something far more different than dissociation.

Often people use this path to run away from being a person. Enlightenment is a way of not being "me" anymore. An escape from pain. This hidden intention is something that must be dealt with eventually. And it will be dealt with. But mostly further up the process.

And you will never understand what grounding means by my words. Just do research and start practicing. It's probably the best advice you can have on your journey right now. And like Dreamscape said... eventually it's about residing in the heart. Sounds very poetic and fluffy... but its actually very practical and essential.

@Visionary

Thank you again for your insights. Much appreciated

With "imagination" I mean there is no material solid reality, but a perception of it. 

If you jump in front of the train, you will die. But your death is imaginary, exactly as you and the train.

With dissociation I mean that I feel myself detached from my identity and generally from the rest (I don't know if dissociation or disidentification is the best word here).

I will reasearch more about grounding. Thank you again

[Vittorio]

4 minutes ago, Leo Nordin said:

@Vittorio hahahahah be lucky I am here, I have awakened recently. This is how I did it when I was ready. See if I tell you to sit down and do nothing, there is the body, the mind and energy. You can control all of them. So I turned everything off and you become a dead man, like an old man without any life energy left that rests all the time. Now It became clear how energy is created, so all the time I create energy and spend as little as possible for survival or "the greater good". 

You don't control anything, let your body and mind do what takes the least energy or willpower or what you will call it. Your experience of life will not be set to what happens only in the mind. Sometimes a thought or fantasy will come, your awareness will be a little everywhere. 

Your mind and body will definitely give you the most ecstatic experience because when the body/mind without spending energy will choose to give you the most pleasant experience. All you need to do is focus on energy which is not something you really focus on it's more what's there when you let go of suffering. It's not in the body or mind. I don't know how deep you can go, probably enlightenment and death might happen. I have things to do in this world so I haven't a single day been able to try and see how enlightened I can become. You laugh a lot and probably cry every day out of joy if you do this. You go deep into pleasantness. 

Did that do?

Hi!

Sadly I don't get your point. What is your take on the matter and what are you suggesting to do exactly?

[Leo Nordin]

10 minutes ago, Vittorio said:

Hi!

Sadly I don't get your point. What is your take on the matter and what are you suggesting to do exactly?

Do nothing but what your body / mind want to naturally. Don't have any grip on your experience of life, just let things happen and you will experience it to the fullest. Explain to me what advice you want, what are you suggesting exactly? 

If you want to do something on this world, eating survival etc. You can't be enlightened, but you can be pretty blissful. When you have awakened you can always let go of ego and experience bliss. Every now and then you might see a kid laugh his head of what is the energy that that children is giving in to at that moment? You need to give in to that too, always give in to what you are feeling (when not in survival situations) and you will create a pleasant experience for yourself if you become one with it. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Leo Nordin

[Vittorio]

1 minute ago, Leo Nordin said:

Do nothing but what your body / mind want to naturally. Don't have any grip on your experience of life, just let things happen and you will experience it to the fullest. Explain to me what advice you want, what are you suggesting exactly? 

If you want to do something on this world, eating survival etc. You can't be enlightened, but you can be pretty blissful. 

I am not suggesting anything. Just wanted more clarification about your words Thank you for your advice.

[Leo Nordin]

@Vittorio what did you want insight on? 

[Vittorio]

2 minutes ago, Leo Nordin said:

@Vittorio what did you want insight on? 

I wanted to understand, what's happening to me first (am I awakening or not? What's all that) and, if I am really awakening (I think so), how to "move on".

I will write my takes on the matter in a couple minutes.

[erik8lrl]

@Vittorio This is good; you are reaching the state of pure being. The desire to move on(enlightenment) is the remaining thing that's stopping you. You need to reach a deeper realization about this thing that you are pursuing; ask yourself, you should already have the answer. Then once you have that realization, I recommend doing psychedelic to ground it. Follow your heart and intuition. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by erik8lrl

[Vittorio]

Here I am.

I read all your replies and did a bit of self-reflection and this is what I found out (please give me your takes).

What I am living right now is a state of high presence and despersonalization/detachment from myself, my feelings and reality as a whole.

This is a gift, because I now have a real ground to work about to reach enlightenment.

But I won't get enlightened IF I don't understand what's happening right now and change my attitude towards it and toward life in general.

I am actually stuck because of these reasons:

1) I have a practical and result oriented attitude that will do and sacrifice everything it takes to reach my goals (remaining in the "good" side). This has many negative sides. It causes neglecting my body, my needs and myself as a whole just for the result sake. By doing that, I rapidly lose touch with emotions and passion involved. This is not something I can reach without feeling any emotions like a mindless robot

2) I approach enlightenment with my mind only and not with being. I have a intuitive attitude and I channel insights random even in real life while doing groceries and such, so I am used to "understand" things through mind. Enlightenment is too big to be grasped with mind only. This is not some "mechanical stuff", this is much much bigger than what I can grasp with my mind. I have to ground myself into being

3) I have a fixation on reaching the goal and reaching it ASAP. This means practically I have a obstinacy to reach enlightenment (e. g. doing 3-4 hours straight self-inquiry, waking up during night and meditating and doing self-inquiry and the readyiness to give up all my identity and everything it takes to reach enlightenment). This causes frustration and obsession for the result. Maybe I must cease to be so stubborn

4) I don't clearly understanding the sacrality of enlightenment. To me enlightenment is something "cool" (almost like a simple achievement) and I still don't appreciate what it actually means to become enlightened. I will reflect on that and watch some documentaries on youtube

5) I don't fully appreciate the gift I have. I now have a much increased presence in the reality, almost 0 monkey mind, heightened perceptions and a state of depersonalization/detachment. This allows me to feel reality in a way that wasn't possible before. Instead of feeling reality with this new state and feeling compassion, appreciation and love for this, I keep my fixation on reaching the result. I will ground myself more into being and try to appreciate existence through looking at it with new eyes

6) Purpose of enlightenment is not the doing, but the being. As I said in the point 2, I am trying to grasp enlightenment principally with mind based methods. The feature of enlightenment is being grounded in being. Being means less doing and more presence. This means I have to cease doing all this brute force self-inquiry and enjoy existence

7) This is a test. It's not a case that I got stuck. This must happen. I got stuck for the purpose of self-reflecting and to understand what I am doing and what's enlightenment about (writing this topic too).

Edited October 19, 2020 by Vittorio