Stage green debate: should the left vote for Biden?

[Raze]

 

In this video, Briahna Joy Gray argues with Noam Chomsky on if the left should support Biden. In my opinion this is a good example of the rift in the left, with Noam Chomsky representing the view of the older left and Briahna Joy Gray representing the view of the younger left. Not just in their positions, but also in their values you can see them talking about. 

[Leo Gura]

Do I even have to listen to it to know that Chomsky is right?

[Matt Skinner]

 

[Peter-Andre]

It's really frustrating how dead-set some leftists are not to vote for Biden even though it means increasing the likelihood of another Trump term. They don't realize that what they're doing is only harming them and their movement. It reminds me of this meme:

Not voting for Biden helps Trump.

[Gidiot]

I get the “if you don’t vote your values now then when will you argument, but I think the answer to that is actually work within the system to form a third party that’s competitive, otherwise try to reform the Democratic Party but good luck with that, I don’t think it has the infrastructure to be a left party although I could be wrong.

 

I like a lot of the green parties ideas but they have shown they are quite incompetent as a party, they don’t have a single governorship or congressional seat and they are supposed to win the presidency? Give me a break, also you don’t build a party from national elections getting 5% you build a party from the grassroots and there is no reason why there couldn’t be a left party with real power. and there actually are movements happening to make this so,

the Green Party is like hopes and dreams or a nice car without an engine, they look nice but without a strategy and the energy/vision/people power to get there it’s not going to make it happen.

 

trust me the Democratic Party sucks too but it has elected more left leaning people in the last two years to congress than the Green Party has in 60 years.

 

by all means don’t vote or vote your conscience but don’t act like it’s going to do anything but be a protest vote, which is fine but a Biden presidency is a much more fertile soil for a left Overton window push than a trump presidency. And there’s really no shot of anyone else winning in 2020, I’m actively working to make there be more parity beyond two parties but in three weeks we gotta choose and we really only have two choices to actually win the presidency.

It’s really that simple 

hoping this will change.

[Heart of Space]

2 hours ago, Peter-Andre said:

It's really frustrating how dead-set some leftists are not to vote for Biden even though it means increasing the likelihood of another Trump term. They don't realize that what they're doing is only harming them and their movement. It reminds me of this meme:

Not voting for Biden helps Trump.

Lol, I was definitely bummed when Bernie Sanders lost.  I was so excited I bought into the hype too much and overestimated Bernie's chances.  I definitely had that initial saltiness where I had zero interest in voting for Biden.  I would never EVER vote for someone like Trump, but I legit did not want to vote for Biden.  After I've come to my senses voting for Biden is the clear correct thing to do, at least for me.  

[Lyubov]

This is such a tiny fringe group of people that I wouldn’t even take them seriously. Half of them probably don’t even vote in the first place lol 

[Lindsay]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Do I even have to listen to it to know that Chomsky is right?

That’s a disappointing comment coming from you. As much as I love Chomsky, she has a point.
 

I put you on a pedistool. I looked up to you since early 2018. Your videos got me through postpartum depression. Your videos even inspired me to educate myself. I usually agree with your opinions. It was your recommendations of Jimmy Dore and Chris Hedges, and Noam Chomsky that got my wheels turning in this direction. I understand why you think Biden is better than Trump. I’m just disappointed that you don’t want to be an activist for change. You finally reached a million subscribers. Your voice is so influential. I hope I’m the one who is confused, grandiose, and diluted. 
 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Lindsay

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Lindsay said:

she has a point.

She doesn't have a point because the majority of Americans do not support her progressive value system and worldview.

These progressives are pretending as though the primaries didn't happen. How convenient to ignore Bernie's loss.

This is the prime delusion of progressives. Your fellow Americans are NOT progressive, and they don't like you.

America gets exactly what it deserves based on its level of consciousness and selfishness.

Joe Biden won and Bernie lost because that's what most people wanted.

The system perfectly reflects the level of education and selfishness of most Americans. And progressives are almost as selfish as the rest. So here we are.

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

She doesn't have a point because the majority of Americans do not support her leftist value system and worldview.

This is the prime delusion of progressives. Your fellow Americans are NOT progressive, and they don't like you.

Such a heartbreak. 

Now I feel like I'm staring into a black hole  after reading your comment. 

America is not progressive? Oh I so wish it was. 

 

 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This is the prime delusion of progressives. Your fellow Americans are NOT progressive, and they don't like you.

AOC and Bernie have high approval ratings by their fellow Americans. Bernie has been rated the most popular politician in the country on numerous occasions. In the primary, Democrats rated beating Trump as their #1 issue and Bernie had a low level of perceived electability. 

Fundamental progressive issues like legalizing marijuana, a wealth tax and m4a have majority approval among Americans. 

[Preety_India]

 

18 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

AOC and Bernie have high approval ratings by their fellow Americans. Bernie has been rated the most popular politician in the country on numerous occasions. In the primary, Democrats rated beating Trump as their #1 issue and Bernie had a low level of perceived electability. 

Fundamental progressive issues like legalizing marijuana, a wealth tax and m4a have majority approval among Americans. 

I'm actually very upset by Leo's comment. He makes it look like there is no hope for the Left. 

Is there like a huge difference between the Left and the Progressives? 

Because I always thought progressive means the Left. And I'm so confused by what Leo said about progressives. It's almost like saying the Left are hated in the United States. Is this true? 

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by Preety_India

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

AOC and Bernie have high approval ratings by their fellow Americans. Bernie has been rated the most popular politician in the country on numerous occasions. In the primary, Democrats rated beating Trump as their #1 issue and Bernie had a low level of perceived electability. 

Fundamental progressive issues like legalizing marijuana, a wealth tax and m4a have majority approval among Americans. 

Yes, those two are popular. But still, if Bernie is so popular, why didn't he give Biden a stronger contest? Because is mostly popular in very liberal cities and states.

Yes, those issues have high popular support but people don't vote on policy and don't self-identify as progressive.

[Forestluv]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, those two are popular. But still, if Bernie is so popular, why didn't he give Biden a stronger contest? Because is mostly popular in very liberal cities and states.

Yes, those issues have high popular support but people don't vote on policy and don't self-identify as progressive.

I think Joe is well-liked as well and there are a lot of center-left Democrats. From my observations, I think a lot of Democrats were traumatized by Trump and wanted whoever had the best chance of beating Trump. For decades, Republicans have hung the socialism label on Democrats like a scarlet letter. I also think some self-identifying Democrats didn't see Bernie as a real Democrat, since he is independent. I know Dems that were very leary of him and worried he wouldn't be a Democrat as president. Like you said, they vote identity over policy. I know people that were aligned with Bernie on progressive policy and I was surprised they didn't vote for him in the primary. They would say something like "I've been a democrat my whole life and Biden is a real democrat. Bernie is a good guy, yet he is a not a real democrat". It's weird. 

[Joel3102]

I think progressives like Kyle Kulisnki project their own values on to the American population really hard. They see them as caring more about the substantive policy issues more than they actually do I think. Although I’m not American, but it seems to be the case. 

[Lindsay]

@Leo Gura why not be the change you want to see. You are literally doing the opposite of be the change in this case and I’m so confused... why? The power of optimism. I get it. The novelty wears off after a few years of hope . This is only my third election so maybe the novelty and hope didn’t wear down. If we all could just learn as much as we can and work on validating alternative opinions then questioning their reasoning in a curious nonjudgmental way instead of a condescending way, then maybe you can help get people on the right track. Help people become curious. Help them think. You can’t do that if you dismiss them. Your conspiracy video triggered me. But luckily I’m patient and curious enough to finish every minute of your videos. I been practicing my ability to listen to triggering arguments in real life. It fucking feels Impossible. But something inside me doesn’t want to give up. I never finish anything in life. I’m also pretty passive in person. When it comes to politics it’s hard for me to not have a knee jerk reaction. I want to hang in to hope in this area of my life. My little 4 year old is helpless right now to fight for his future. I feel like I could at least do what I can to spread ideas. We are all connected. What Leo influenced in me, I influence on the people close to me, and it branches out like that. Isn’t that what grassroots mean? Sorry for rambling.

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

You are literally doing the opposite of be the change in this case and I’m so confused... why? The power of optimism.

Because I am not naive. This is a game of survival. Hippie ideals do not fly in the real world without a rock-solid foundation.

If you care about your 4 year old then you should do what you can so that Trump doesn't win.

[Lindsay]

@Leo Gura

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because I am not naive. This is a game of survival. Hippie ideals do not fly in the real world without a rock-solid foundation.

If you care about your 4 year old then you should do what you can so that Trump doesn't win.

Tell me about your rock-solid survival plan. 

Whats the fundamental difference  between Trumpty Dumpty and senile Biden?

 

fyi i live in Chicago, Democrats always beat Republicans by a landslide. My vote doesn't really matter. So I dedicated my vote to increase the numbers in the 3rd party. I feel safe sending a message in a state like Illinois. However i don't try to convince my family and friends in Wisconsin and Texas to vote 3rd party. Their democratic votes are important. Im not a complete hippy idealogical fucktard. Im reasonably rebellious.  

Edited October 17, 2020 by Lindsay

[Willie]

2 hours ago, Preety_India said:

 It's almost like saying the Left are hated in the United States. Is this true? 

 

Trust me, there’s plenty of hate directed towards the Left. This is a big ego backlash from electing Obama twice. The growing pains of a nation. The “Make America Great Again” slogan really sums it all up. Many Americans are sick of progress and liked things just as they were.

[Leo Gura]

55 minutes ago, Lindsay said:

Whats the fundamental difference  between Trumpty Dumpty and senile Biden?

Listen here, jack...

One is a malignant sociopath who cares about nothing but his ego, the other is a decent vanilla guy who will make moderate improvements to America.

Don't poo-poo moderate improvements. A system the size of America cannot be transformed overnight. It inches forward like a fat beast on its belly.