Does affirmations work regarding sexual orientation?

[Strangeloop]

I think it can. So if I repeat I'm straight all the time, I'll be straight. And if I say I'm gay, I'll become gay. That's the whole point of these affirmations isn't? To program your mind so it eventually goes working from the mind and into the body. Identifying oneself with an identity and then acting as that identified identity. 

Opinions?

[TripleFly]

No it can't, sorry.

This is so much more complex than you realize.

Your mind is 0.00001% of what's going on.

Yes you will become straight in your mind.

But your body? Your being? Your soul? It won't budge.

Unless. This is what you truly wanted, and part of the reason you weren't born with the sexual orientation your mind prefers is so you can- change your mind  

But then, I propose, instead of trying to change it to what you want, release whatever is holding you back from being who you were born to be. Because if you were born to be it, then why wouldn't you want to be it? CHANGE THAT!

[wk197]

the true test of LOA/affirmation/manifestation legitimacy is whether you can change sexuality from gay to straight

[JosephKnecht]

This is a good question.

Does sexual attraction exist within the context of one's identity? 

I presume that the things that attract us are created outside the context of our identity. In fact, the things that attract us are outside our identity since we need them to help create our identity. In that case, affirmations won't help. This is just my speculation. 

[Michal__]

Try it lol.

Idk if it's worth the hassle though.

[seeking_brilliance]

Why? 

[kag101]

Obviously not.

[No Self]

What might be possible is becoming asexual by transcending the desires that cause so much trouble.

[JonasVE12]

I think homosexuality is mostly rooted in internal conflict with the acceptance of one's own gender identity, same sex child-parent relationship and exlcusion from same-sex peer group. It is caused by gender trauma. A young boy needs a masculine role model for him to identify masculine energy with. If he hasn't, or there is a love-hate relationship between the two, because the boy wants love and attention by the same sex parent, but he is experienced as abusive or absent, the boy will try to attempt to heal this wound by erotizing other masculine men. Homosexual behavior is a symptomatic attempt to “repair” the original wound that left the boy alienated from the innate masculinity that he has failed to claim. In a lot of the cases, the mother is also overindulgent. I think some people have genetic predisposition to emotional vulnerability that makes them more predisposed to the condition. So it's my speculation that homosexuality is a developmental diviation, caused by alientation of it's own masculinity.  Every baby has a primary identification with the mother when it's born. Then the boy has to individuate and identify with the father. If there is conflict in that proces, the person becomes homosexual. 

In short, it's about shame, masculine inferiority, absent father, abuse, self-esteem, self-image, childhood trauma, overindulgent mother, loneliness, exclusion from peer group, sexual abuse, ..

Affirmations won't remove the homosexual desires. It can help. It can create a more masculine self-image, but you need a lot of psychoanalysis to understand yourself better, and new masculinity reinforcing experiences to start claim your own sense of masculinity. Thinking affirmations will fix it is far too simplistic. There is a lot of psychological and neurological factors involved. Even when you fix the masculinity issue, you still are left with reinforced neural patterns that cause you to have the strongest sexual arrousal to the reinforced experiences (homosexual experiences), so you will have to break this habit. It will be easier if you fix the underlying gender trauma. I have suffered from pharaphilias that prevented me to have normal heterosexual sexuality. I projected the external object of sexual desire into myself because of some of the same dynamics that causes homosexuality in others. Getting insight into this and moving towards healing and healthy masculinity was key in solving this. I think fixing homosexuality requires a more sophisticated strategy than using affirmations if you want to get rid of it .

Edited October 16, 2020 by JonasVE12

[Value]

First of all, this would probably be a bad idea. You shouldn't surpress your sexuality.

In regards to what would happen, from my experience with affirmations and visualization I would say you become more gay or more straight compared to your initial starting point. But sexuality is so basic to us that trying to change it would be a little bit like trying to change how we perceive the taste of food.

Your mind would start to look for things within you that you recognize as straight or gay patterns/traits/thoughts and they would expand and gradually start to grow within you. Also you would start to pay less attention to the parts of you that is more like the opposite of what you are affirming (affirming "I'm gay" would make you pay less attention to your straight sides). Would it change what gives you an erection? Not deeply, sexuality is too imbedded in the most basic parts of our brain. If I affirm every day "I love the smell of diarrhea"  maybe I would become aware of aspects about the smell of diarrhea that I could learn to appreciate - but it would still smell like diarrhea, what changes is my relation to that smell. So through affirmations you would change how you relate to yourself and your sexuality in a more straight or gay way, but you won't shake the automatic bodily and mental sensations that occur when you encounter someone attractive.

[No Self]

2 hours ago, JonasVE12 said:

I think fixing homosexuality requires a more sophisticated strategy than using affirmations if you want to get rid of it .

The scenario you describe can happen, though the notion that homosexuality is merely a pathological distortion of the sex drive has not been the scientific consensus since 1973, when the American Psychiatric Association ceased regarding homosexuality as a disorder. It is believed to be genetic for some individuals.

Homosexuality is also common in the animal kingdom. Public support for gay marriage has skyrocketed in recent decades. The mechanisms behind abused individuals 'becoming' gay, which I have also observed, would only be possible if an individual had at least some suppressed bisexual compatibility to begin with.

Advising people to wage war against their own sexuality is dangerous and irresponsible advice and can lead to horrible outcomes.

At best, I believe transcendence is possible, since all neediness is ultimate a part of the cycle of suffering as described by the Buddha and others.

[JonasVE12]

17 minutes ago, No Self said:

Advising people to wage war against their own sexuality is dangerous and irresponsible advice and can lead to horrible outcomes.

 I'm not advising anything to anyone. Merely pointing out the mechanisms preceding homosexuality. 

You have to realise the difficulties these people often face. There's a high % of homosexual men relative to heterosexual people that try to commit suicide because of their internal struggle with their sexual orientation. Homosexuality is fine, and if you are happy with it, why change? But it is just so that homosexuality is in most of the case a compensation for their trauma based identity. These people often struggle with shame, self-esteem issues, low self worth, perfectionism, depression, anxiety. The homosexuality is not the problem. It's the underlying identity issues that are and the implications on their life.

I'm not saying it is the only cause and I don't think genetics can by itself bring out the condition. You can have a predisposition to emotional vulnarbulity or prenatal hormonal imbalances, and then you can say genetics can contribute, but I don't think there has been found a gay gene yet lol. 

The problem with the LGBT movement and how the people involved preach that acceptance is the only way, is what distrubs me. If people with homosexuality who feel like it is not their core identity go to therapy, they get to hear that acceptance and letting go is the only solution. These people are heterosexual in their core, but this is burried deep inside the person. They want to have the normal heterosexual identity, the one of having a family, a house, garden, childeren. The social stigma adds to the emotional burden as well. The shame that is associated with it, leaves onself hiding his 'authenticity', leaving the person feeling isolated from his environment. Some people have it easier and can accept that as part of who they are and go on with their life. For the people in the group I'm talking about, It's sometimes not an option. There was a topic of someone here on the forum who was clearly fighting the desires because he felt it was not his core identity. 

It's a problem for me that public biases are limiting the healing opportunities for wounded individuals. Also the theory that homosexuality is genetic is a problem. It limits further investigation into the more significant contributing factors for example family dynamics and so homosexuality can not be prevented. It's best to be prevented if possible because of the issues that often come with, both socially and psychologically

[Roy]

Sexuality is mostly genetically inherent, you don't really get a choice about what "turns you on" so to say. The best thing is to find a healthy, authentic way to express it, and to accept what feels good. Not in the way of pleasure, but in deeper.

[No Self]

2 hours ago, Keyhole said:

I don't think you know what you're talking about. 

... 

I don't really know I'm just speculating.

Good, we can "not know" together.

Firstly, your (or my) anecdotal data does not disprove the existence of legitimate homosexuality with genetic causes. Homosexuality has always been prevalent throughout the world, including people with perfectly healthy childhoods, and elsewhere in the animal kingdom. This is why I yield to proper scientific research rather than what somebody on the internet claims.

Secondly, it is important to know that the LGBTQ+ community is one of the most vulnerable to suicides and hate crimes. Telling people they are wrong for being different is a major factor behind both. Doing so in a thread where someone in a fragile position is appealing for support is potentially murderous.

Thirdly, I have worked with abused children, and any implicit prediction that they will become pedophiles is not very good caregiving, not to mention scientifically incorrect. If you have attracted so many abuse victims into your social circle, maybe that has something to do with your energy and does not mean that your anecdotes should discredit society's move towards respect and tolerance for minorities.

Edited October 17, 2020 by No Self

[Strangeloop]

@Keyhole I'm afraid to be gay, because of my Dad. I don't know what he will think of me. Probably neglect me for the rest of my life. Or not I don't know. And the thought of sucking a penis and letting someone get inside of me scares me as well.

[No Self]

@Keyhole  OK, I apologise for misunderstanding your intentions. Some of your earlier remarks "LGBTQ ppl are in general more fucked up" and "created out of childhood trauma" reminded me of the sorts of arguments made by fundamentalist Christians to shame people for being LGBTQ. I wanted to point out that legitimate homosexuality is supported by the post-dark-ages community and that we need to be careful when implying wrongness in something that is natural for some people.

Edited October 17, 2020 by No Self

[No Self]

Yes, hopefully this discussion has relevance to the OP, otherwise I will gladly butt out!

I can add that I was abused as a child by 2 older sisters, and am aware that my own sexuality literally feels like something distorted out of shape. I've chosen to attempt a 'spiritual bypass'! So I know very well what you are talking about.

A few years ago I became a qualified early childhood educator, and was motivated by concern for the way children are raised and the abuses that lead to problems later in life. Attachment theory discusses relationship quality but not sexual orientation. I learned a lot, but don't feel like I could go into it here without causing a ridiculous tangent.

To summarise quickly, men make up 3% of early childhood educators, which means most child care centres have no men. I found that I was extremely popular with the children, which helped confirm my theory that children are actually missing out on healthy interactions with both genders and this may help explain relationship and gender-politics issues later in life. But a number of factors, like being unsupported when bullied by coworkers, minimal pay and the realisation that parents ultimately influence the children so much more, caused me to eventually give up and settle for a more gender-normative role as a truck driver!

Early childhood is a huge issue even for average people, but especially abuse cases. But I sadly don't see things getting any better unless we have standards over who is allowed to have children, mandatory education on child-raising, etc. I feel we have to just accept the world, as screwed as it is.

[Strangeloop]

Thank you for the answers! As I was reading I noticed that sexuality somehow interconnects with the relationships to my parents. As I do have overindulgent mother and sometimes abusive and unsuportive father. Which explains why I have these Identity as being gay. Also I noticed that culture in general is very different from my parents so I can't blame them for being so against gay community. The word gay in my country is an insult so it is much harder to show your gayness per say yo people because they will call you out and treat you differently. 

[No Self]

@Strangeloop Which country are you in?

Here in Australia, the word gay was an insult until maybe 10-15 years ago. Now it is not an insult anymore. That's a pretty incredible change to see in just a few years.

It is really important to find people who understand you. It's better to have a small, high-quality community than to fit in with the dysfunction of the mainstream society. 

[Strangeloop]

I'm from Lithuania, basically Russia since my country was occupied by soviet union