People actually evolve from green to orange

[Heart of Space]

5 hours ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@Heart of Space I think it's both/and. Thinking POC struggle because of their own actions is Orange thinking. Yellow sees that both Orange and Green have truths and is able to integrate them. Reparations may be a part of the overall package to help those who are ancestors of slavery, but it would be one of many ways to help POC not a magic cure-all.

Pretty much what I was trying to say.

Orange makes the mistake of not looking at the grander context and the deterministic outcomes of people born in a particular environment and simply blames the individual for their choices.

 

Green makes the mistake of ignoring personal responsibility in favor of blaming external variables for outcomes of peoples lives.

 

Yellow encorporates both personal accountability with external variables.  Someone who is yellow might support public policy such as increased spending on education and health.  Whereas I would suspect most would not support a reparations, reparations is  policy derived from pure green thinking.  

[Carl-Richard]

23 hours ago, RedLine said:

Could you name an intellectual who was libertarian and now he is green? I can´t find anyone.

TheAmazingAtheist used to be a libertarian many years ago and now he is pretty darn green.

 

23 hours ago, RedLine said:

Also, I observe most people evolve from green (teenagers and 20s) to orange and not the other way around.

Here is my theory: Teens tend to gravitate towards the freeing aspects of Green because they're actually trying to find ways to express their Stage Red impulses. Green reacts to the limiting structures and conformities of previous stages, and this dissolving of hierachy, rules and structure is readily co-opted by immature teenagers who naturally inhabit a lot of Red.

I remember seeing this in myself a couple of years ago back when I got into what I call "hedonistic feel-good spirituality". I got seduced by the saying "live in the now" and was taking it way too literally and using it to hide from my responsibilities, because I was actually coming at it from a pre-Blue standpoint by not having integrated true structure and discipline in my life. It's not truly "mature Green" unless you recognize the positive aspects of Blue. I straight out rejected all of it.

You tend to see this form of redish-green spirituality/ideology very much in people who start smoking weed in their early teens, and I was a part of that scene for a couple of years and have a lot of experiences within that sort of culture (externally) and state of mind (internally).

23 hours ago, RedLine said:

In fact there is a saying that goes like this: If you were not left (green, hippie, collectivist) when you were young, it is because you didn't have a heart, if as an adult you are not right wind (liberal-conservative, orange), you are stupid.

So based on my theory, what that saying is refering to with "on the left" is actually just the natural teenage propensity towards pre-convential/impulsive stages of development (pre-Blue), expressed within a Green framework. It doesn't describe the development from Green to Orange but instead it's the development from Red to Blue.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Marxwa Sright]

@RedLine What are you defining libertarian as in the first post? Green or orange? What of the multiple definitions of libertarian you refer to?

Can you also mention what authors have devolved, and what country are you from?

You might be confusing a blue stage version of egalitarian dogma to green. Hard to tell without specifics.

[Marxwa Sright]

Also media in general is highly influenced by the profit incentive. Authors are constantly pressured to stay relevant/funded to keep their jobs.

[Rilles]

@Marxwa Sright

Marx was left not right

[supremeyingyang]

@Rilles Some Communist told 'Marx was right'. lol

[Marxwa Sright]

@Rilles @Rilles Lol even linguistically we are being indoctrinated by the Right 

[Gidiot]

Angela davis

Joe Biden has moved from center right to center I think maybe I’m wrong. (Greenish)

al gore 

Noam chomsky

 Russell brand (red to green and maybe even yellow) 

Chris hedges 

Ryan knight 

amazing atheist as someone mentioned.

abrham Lincoln had letters written to him by Marx and evolved quite a bit

MLK went from orange to green

mike Tyson (the boxer red core to green core)

some of these aren’t intellectuals but all prominent influencers in society who had a clear trend from orange to green. 
 

I think maybe you are missing the rule for the exception, I’ve been green since about high school and had a bit of a regression in college but that’s all it is, if you give someone long enough they eventually will see the futility of pursuing personal freedom and success to no end which is the hallmark of orange,

people who tend to “regress” maybe never got to full orange and healthy green in the first place, many hippies aren’t healthy green and many teenagers aren’t either, 

most yellow academics

Have a very clear and obvious evolution from orange to green to yellow, I don’t think SD is mistaken but with individuals it’s a lot more tricky.

zizek,

jung,

freud,

maslow,

Einstein,

tesla (maybe even turquoise)

jane Goodall,

bohr,

 

 

all went from orange>green>yellow

Might want to check out the examples of green thread to see some of this

 

 

 

 

 

[alan2102]

On 10/14/2020 at 0:10 PM, RedLine said:

Not in theroy, but empirically based on my observation.

For exampe, most know intelectuals of my country (I can give you the names if you want) went from green to orange. They were basically hippies in the 60s and 70s but they grew and now they are liberals (libertarians, classica liberal, liberal-conservatives) whose discourse is basically focused on individual liberty.

Could you name an intellectual who was libertarian and now he is green? I can´t find anyone.

The hippies were never green. They were lifestyle anarchists, of a particular type that had green *potential*, partially actualized in a few cases, but in general (across the whole group) never actualized. The hippies were always about individual liberty, and were not  politically sophisticated enough to understand the hard work necessary to overthrow capitalism and create a green society. Nice intents and all, and a great abundance of positive energy and creativity, but no cigar.

As for "libertarians" (oranges) becoming green: this is happening more frequently now as the climate and other crises deepen.  Former dyed-in-wool oranges -- especially in the sciences (higher intelligence and greater knowledge base) -- are going green. Not fast enough, but it is happening. And perfectly understandably, since orange is obviously inadequate to deal with these crises.