Regarding The Afterlife

[The]

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Edited August 26, 2016 by Mikey

[key]

@Mikey

What is talking? 

What you're doing is tapping your fingers on a screen or keyboard, using your sense of tactile interpretation, replying to pixels on a screen, what you're seeing is nothing but colours, you actually think you see the world and things directly?, even 'science' claims our vision is nothing more than millimetres of light being interpreted by our eyes, transferred into brain chemicals to produce the experience of seeing, the words you type are nothing but sounds mashed together and random lines that our vision makes into something coherent. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Kenya

[The]

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Edited August 26, 2016 by Mikey

[key]

@Mikey

I don't know! 

you see yourself as colours, you feel yourself with touch, your 'intelligent' mind is interpreting all your 5 senses into something that you consider knowledge, and that knowledge is filled with nothing but concepts and ideas that you hold as something that can ACTUALLY exist in independent objective reality. 

You can't EVER prove you exist, nobody can. I don't know anything true my friend, I told you I don't even know what truth is. 

Even all that crap I said is just knowledge passed down, I don't even believe in that. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Kenya

[The]

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Edited August 26, 2016 by Mikey

[key]

@Mikey

I really implore you to ask yourself what is knowing something? 

You just claimed to know truth but a few posts ago said you weren't 100% sure you even knew what truth meant, you assume to know Leo's motivations but an assumption is all it is, I have no idea what Neti Neti method is, all we're doing is playing the intellectualising game, pitting words against one another, that's why people recommend meditation my friend, to explore your own experience to find what's real and not what's just knowledge! You'll never find what you're looking for listening to the words of others and forming your own opinion, you need to question YOUR reality, YOUR thoughts, YOUR experience, YOUR knowledge, NOT somebody elses. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Kenya

[The]

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Edited August 26, 2016 by Mikey

[The]

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Edited August 26, 2016 by Mikey

[30secs]

@Mikey

it's okay maaann..I appreciate that you share something on this forum, your always welcome to comeback here:)

[key]

@Mikey

I wish you all the best with your endeavours, you seem genuine in your questioning and again you speak your mind, this 'search' we find ourselves on is messy and complicated, simple to the point of being incomprehensible, paradoxical and contradictory, be open to your beliefs being ripped apart and new ones moulded at the same time, we are like seeds who need water and sun, but it will be us who sprouts, not the tools provided, I may not make sense but nothing ever does 

Warm Regards.

[Leo Gura]

@Key Elements There are no stages. It's all concepts.

Do not forget that a model is just a model, and not reality.

Sounds like you're trying to conceptualize enlightenment too much and getting lost in the fallout of such a silly endeavor.

[Key Elements]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Key Elements There are no stages. It's all concepts.

Do not forget that a model is just a model, and not reality.

Sounds like you're trying to conceptualize enlightenment too much and getting lost in the fallout of such a silly endeavor.

I just said in my above statement that the coral stage is still "maya" and "illusion." Psychologists put it like that for a reason. I'm not talking about no-self here. I'm talking about coral stage that's presented in the Graves model. 

So, no I'm not trying to conceptualize. Don't assume. I know that the map is not the territory. There are two different things I said there.

I know that "there is no you," "no-ego," "no-self," "Riding the Ox Backwards," "nothingness/everythingness," etc, etc...This is talked about a lot in this forum and by you, and I couldn't agree more. That's not my point though.

What if after "death," there is another "maya," "illusion," and "there is no you stage." Called stage coral in Graves model? Have you ever considered that as a possibility and as a direct experience of it? Check out parapsychology. It has to do with near death experiences and afterlives.

It's your choice if you want to look into this or not. You did make a clip on Radical Open-mindedness. Why should we label something as "religion" or "cult" without checking them out with radical open-mindedness, but with a critical mind?

Edited August 27, 2016 by Key Elements

[Leo Gura]

@Key Elements Once you become conscious that everything is nondual, you can have all the phenomena and lives and deaths you want, and it doesn't matter because it's all you. You don't think of yourself as a body or soul or mind at that point. All of that is seen as illusion. Every single phenomena is seen through.

You have to first experience that consciousness is Absolutely Infinite. Then you'll understand. Until then, you will not, and you will get attached to various phenomena, whether it be this life or a past life or some idea you have of a future life. These kinds of considerations only make sense in a dualistic model, which is utterly false.

If Coral stage means anything, it should resemble something like the realization and embodiment of complete nonduality. Which means the end of all questioning and speculating about past or future lives. Nonduality is the ultimate end of the road. EVERYTHING BECOMES YOU! The completeness is TOTAL! ABSOLUTELY INFINITE!

The significance of this realization cannot be overstated.

Not only did you have past lives, and future lives, you LITERALLY ARE absolutely EVERYTHING that ever existed or could possibly exist, all of it SIMULTANEOUSLY. From every bacteria and virus to all the dinosaurs in history, to every creature and non-creature that will ever be born or imagined in all the fiction novels written by all the humans and non-humans until the heat-death of this universe, and all the universes that could ever exist.

EVERYTHING IS YOU!

And nothing is you.

What else is there to know? It's everything you could have possibly wanted. It's infinity!

[JevinR]

@Leo Gura Funny coming from you, the master of all cults. If you disregard the dogma, and only take it from the kundalini point of view respectively, then you could digest the information. I sold my soul for this information and gave it to you ungrateful cu**. Shouldn't have posted this, I copy and pasted it from some site. I already know of the crap you're talking about in terms of enlightenment. 

Edited August 27, 2016 by JevinR

[Key Elements]

22 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Key Elements

You have to first experience that consciousness is Absolutely Infinite. Then you'll understand. Until then, you will not, and you will get attached to various phenomena, whether it be this life or a past life or some idea you have of a future life. These kinds of considerations only make sense in a dualistic model, which is utterly false.

 

Again Leo, you're assuming. How do you know that I have not experienced the infinite consciousness? Enlightenment experiences like these are very personal. Unless I say it...ok, here goes...

I was one and a half. I saw / am the nothingness. How does this "feel?" Divine love and peace, like you described in your shroom trip when you were in the bathroom. Words can't even describe this properly. 

(Now comes 'coral stage.')

This isn't the end of the story. Then, there was "blackness," the blackness of space. Then, a lot of sparks were all around me--tons of them--my stars. Then, I started condensing, leaving behind my stars, and was stretched out as if pulled through a blackhole. I was facing backwards when I was pulled through the blackhole. Then, I entered my body with massive, massive light. I saw it from a third person perspective. When I awoke, I was jolted up from my bed. I said, "Oh, I'm  (my name) again!" Then, I went to the living room to play with my toys.

That 'divine love' that you were describing on your trip didn't last long on me. If it happened naturally, it won't last long. That's why I didn't do the things that you did in your bathroom. The transition from no-self to earth realm is much better because it is done naturally. 

Anyway, my whole life, I just passed this off as a dream--I thought it was just a nice dream--until I met my friend. I described my "dream" to her. She decided to do a computerized Jyotish on me. She's an expert on this. Jyotish is Indian astrology based on the stars and planets. Then, one of the result was, she saw that the experience I had when I was 1 yrs old was recorded on my results. I was surprised. We didn't even call what happened to me an 'enlightenment experience.'

Then Leo, I ran into your clips. You were talking about Ox's tail in one of them. Because of your info, I went to Shinzen Young's clips and I saw Riding the Ox Backwards. Yes, I was facing backwards in my experience. 

All this is cool and awesome, but what's the point to this whole thing?

Number 1: Had I called my friend a "cult," "woo-woo," or a "religious whatever freak," she would have not been my friend and would not even bother doing Jyotish on me. It's complex. She's not just someone like you who keeps saying, "Oh, there's just the nothingness / everythingness." Why even bother to call someone weird names if you know she's a nice person?

Number 2: What's the point of enlightenment experiences? Peace-cause that's what you experience at an extreme level.

What to do here on earth? Align your life purpose with world peace. I can't think of a better mission / ripple effect. 

Number 3: This phenomenon we call "earth realm of awareness" based on nothingness/everythingness is weird enough to the mainstream. My point is, how do you know that after we die, we are not going to be some other phenomenon or dimension, even though we are aware that we are nothingness / everythingness? I'm not convinced that earth is the only dimension / phenomenon when there has been so many reports of people seeing their "dead" loved ones  (including myself, I have witnessed). It's all in the branch of psychology called parapsychology. 

.......

Anyway, this is all great. The point is, be detached and do good in this world-world peace. Remember Leo, you made a world peace clip, Spiral Dynamics clip (Graves model ), and Radical Open-mindedness clip. Don't go against your words. Practice what you preach.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Key Elements

[Kserkkj]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwRDCj2Qgyw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzuLa6CcBp4

[vizual]

The Afterlife is the same as the Beforelife. Take it as you will.

[Key Elements]

@JevinR

You provided great info..Thanks. I appreciate it. It's something different.

But you know..I also noticed something else. I thought about this. If people could judge a few charts, graphs, and maps that you provided on a forum, then, in real life, they could judge other things too without looking deeper into it. Like, for example, other people's wedding dresses. That could, by mistake, by big mistake, be seen as "cult." Not everyone gets married in a white gown and tux.

Although, it's not easy for people to read when the word "satan" is there. The whole thing needs to be translated. It's like a different language. 

Edited August 28, 2016 by Key Elements

[Leo Gura]

@Key Elements I just don't see what spiral dynamics has to do with afterlife. Spiral dynamics is about THIS life. So is nonduality. It's about the NOW. Speculating about the afterlife isn't very practical or wise.

You are still speaking from a position of duality. "There was blackness... I was pulled through a black hole... etc". That's all duality. That's all phenomena. This is the trap of spiritualism and powerful mystical experiences, they tend to create some sort of Cosmic Other, and then fantasies about it.

What I would say it that if you delved deeper into exploring the NOW, deconstructing the ego and all phenomenal experience, you would stop talking about afterlives and all questions would be answered in a way that you cannot presently imagine. And this would seem far superior to you than all the speculations and illusions you subscribed to before.

[Key Elements]

@Leo Gura

I agree with you on the part of "there is no you," and to be detached. This makes living easy and the best. But, after we "die," there is no "you." That's it? Just "nirvana" and peace? That would be great though, but it sounds too simple. How can we guarantee that? So, yes, not only meditation, contemplation, and self-inquiry, but also life purpose (with world peace). Karma counts. Everything is interconnected. Sometimes when I have free time, I would look around for info. Afterlives sounds interesting. I don't focus on that. Peace of mind and life purpose is usually what I do.