Why try doing anything in life if you end up realising all is meaningless?

[Intraplanetary]

Hey

I've been losing my motivation to self actualise after seeing Leo's videos of, and further reading about, the ego-developmental stages by Cook-Greuter.

Why really try to be and do your best, endure discomfort on yourself by exercising, working hard and avoid pleasures when in the higher stages, in particular construct-aware stage, you realise that there is no inherent meaning in life? Literally, you realise that what you worked for is a mind-construct, another concept of the mind, an illusion. 

 

What do you think? Do you feel that Leo should produce more motivational content? because I do...

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Intraplanetary

[DreamScape]

because its all beautiful

So do whats most beautiful to you

Edited October 13, 2020 by DreamScape

[Intraplanetary]

@DreamScape what is beautiful?

 

It's not beautiful at all to work on self-actualisation. it's extremely hard and it's gruelling dirty work. Especially when we live in a society where this work is not even acknowledged or supported. it's f@cking lonely. 

So what is this for? just to realise it's meaningless? 

I know life is beautiful and I have many days of blissful moments where I even cry of the beauty of life and divinity of existence. but WHY try to work on going so far with ego development? I don't see the WHY. 

[Leo Gura]

Notice that you are giving meaninglessness a negative meaning, which is not true meaninglessness.

If you do nothing and don't try, that is just as meaningless. Except you will be miserable.

[Inliytened1]

@Intraplanetary you are the Creator of meaning.  And of meaninglessness.

[Intraplanetary]

@Leo Gura hey, thanks for giving me this new perspective... I haven't realised my mind attaches negative meaning to meaninglessness. it just felt natural.

Thanks, it's a lot to think about 

[Guest SirVladimir]

Suffering arises from your identification with meaninglessness, from assuming it has a meaning. You are an ocean. You are life. You are Love.

[Intraplanetary]

@Inliytened1 Yes I couldn't agree with you more about myself creating my own reality and meaning to everything. But in the construct aware stage, this comes to an end - you realise there is no meaning at all. But do you still go about creating the meaning? Is it possible? I think it should feel fake. I can't tell I'm not at that stage, and also I'm not quite convinced it's worth it to reach for it all... 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Intraplanetary

[Someone here]

It doesn't work by" you" or by " why". Transcend these fictions and look how it really works.     You assume that you work by reason and logic..that's not true.. You work by energy.. You are no different than the sun.. Plants.. Rain Summer and winter.. It's a natural happening.. Life has energy and it expresses itself through these different forms. One of which is this flesh computer called you.  If you have energy and desire.. You don't need a why. It will just express itself because there is no other possibility. Kinda like when you are holding your shit.. It has to come out of you. It's inevitable and sorry for the shitty example lol. If you don't have energy.. You will jerkoff to the idea of meaninglessness. 

 

[VeganAwake]

Remember nothing has changed...THIS doesn't adjust.

The way that THIS is perceived adjusts.

 

[Inliytened1]

16 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

@Inliytened1  But in the construct aware stage, this comes to an end - you realise there is no meaning at all. But do you still go about creating the meaning? Is it possible? I think it should feel fake. I can't tell I'm not in there and also I'm not quite convinced it's worth it to go there at all... 

Ofcourse- regardless of your level of consciousness you are always creating..and when you realize the Absolute you will dissolve into Absolute Love and Goodness.  Which is not a finite thought or logical label.  It simply IS. 

So yeah  i wouldn't worry too much about the stages or take them on as dogma as they are just models - continue the work and find out for yourself.   And as you mentioned take a meta POV on how you are currently viewing meaninglessness and realize that that is still applying a meaning to something.  Just like non-existence is a thought within existence.  (All there is is existence)

 

 

[Intraplanetary]

27 minutes ago, Someone here said:

If you have energy and desire.. You don't need a why. It will just express itself because there is no other possibility. Kinda like when you are holding your shit.. It has to come out of you. It's inevitable and sorry for the shitty example lol. If you don't have energy.. You will jerkoff to the idea of meaninglessness. 

@Someone here The example made me laugh  However, I can't agree that the example it a good fit. It's not like you not gonna help yourself but self-actualise. Quite the contrary, It involves an intention, logic, reason, strategising, intuition also. Full mind and heart work. The mind is like a medium, tool or bridge to transcendence. Digesting food and shitting is unconscious. it's done by biological processes we're not aware of and not in charges of. Yes, we aware of the need to shit but it just happens through the unconscious digestive process.

You also said if you have energy and desire you don't need a why. But I think desire is created by having a why. When you have a why automatically you have a desire and then energy tunes in to manifest your why. I don't have a good why, hence I'm not burning in desire and have low energy to really go and do my best
 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Intraplanetary

[UnbornTao]

Holding meaninglessness as a negative is still operating from meaning!

Let’s put it this way then: life transcends meaning, you’re free to create whatever purpose you want to create, or not. 

And then you die.  

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

. I don't have a good why, hence I'm not burning in desire and have low energy to really go and do my best

Then it's not going to happen.  You don't need to force yourself to eat a delicious ice cream. If you are hungry you naturally seek eating. You don't need to philosophize about it.    Don't look for a why. And don't fake a desire. It has to be genuine. 

Do out of genuine love. Or don't do and don't care. 

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

I don't have a good why, hence I'm not burning in desire and have low energy to really go and do my best

 

Are you referring to a why for self actualizing (personal development) or for spirituality (to discover Absolute Truth)?  I know in the end they come together (self actualizing becomes Self Actualizing hehe) but what is your current focus?

[Intraplanetary]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Don't look for a why.

@Someone hereI think looking for meaning and purpose is inherent in ego. We always look for meaning in life. It's an unconscious automatic thing we do. Like shitting. However, some people can go constipated their whole life.  Some people find it, some people engage with a toxic purpose and some die looking. 

I need to look for a why, I need to have a purpose. Because this what creates the energy to grow and thrive for something better. However, it made me question this whole thing about meaning after learning about developmental stages and I felt like... why try at all if I'm on the road to realise it's meaningless anyway? It's like I want to take life purpose very seriously because it's such an important thing, right? But actually no, I can't take it that seriously because it's just a mind-construct. So it's contradictory. A paradox. 

However, as few people pointed out, I create meaning and I'm attaching a negative label to meaninglessness. It gave a better more aware perspective and a lot to think about. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Intraplanetary

[VeganAwake]

You don't have anything to think about other than meaning purpose and value has no real meaning.

[Intraplanetary]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Are you referring to a why for self actualizing (personal development) or for spirituality (to discover Absolute Truth)?  I know in the end they come together (self actualizing becomes Self Actualizing hehe) but what is your current focus?

@Inliytened1 In this lifetime, my highest dream would be to discover the Absolute Truth. Accidentally, (2cb induced) I experienced ego death and rebirth and then had kundalini awakening. I had experienced the most blissful and divine moments in my life. I was seeing the aureole above my head for like a week (wow, how come?) and absolutely empty peaceful mind and full of love and joy heart for like three weeks. 
I promised myself that in this life, I will do everything to create the state where I could naturally experience the same joy for at least one more moment, even if I would be lying in a death bed and it would be the last moment of my life, I felt it would still be worth it to dedicate my life to reach for it. This is how powerful the experience was.

However, during these years (it's been almost 5 years since I had the awakening) I feel that I made very little progress. Always standing in between my dream to awaken once more and living a normal life. I can't connect to my vision anymore. I'm afraid of dedicating my life to awakening and never getting there or not overcoming these realisations of meaninglessness.

It feels that results come very slowly, I don't have enough motivation, I feel lonely. There is no one in my life to support me with this.
And so now I question this quest to enlightenment while still deep down in my heart I know that there is nothing more beautiful than to awake. 

But I feel lost. I understand that I need to self-actualise before I could Self-Actualise. But I found myself lost in contradictions. 
For example, I want to exercise and have good health and also a great shape. But on the other hand, I see this fitness endeavour and working towards a great shape as vanity and pride and insignificant in the context of discovering the Absolute. 

Moreover, I see myself craving for pride and showing off how good I look or how hard I work or how better or aware I am. I'm so tired sometimes of keeping myself in check all the time from feeling pride, from being judgmental or above someone else. The more I work on raising my awareness the harder and more contradictory it becomes. 

I have the why for Self-actualising because I had a direct experience of awakening and this is the best reference point one can have. However, I don't live in a monastery but in an urban jungle and I can't create enough space and time and truly work on discovering the Absolute, because I first need to pay the bills and maintain relationships. 

I can't find the why for self-actualising for working and dedicating myself to something. I don't really know what's important anymore. If it's important at all. 
 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Intraplanetary

[VeganAwake]

There can still be creating money without the belief that it's important...

 

[Inliytened1]

59 minutes ago, Intraplanetary said:

@Inliytened1 In this lifetime, my highest dream would be to discover the Absolute Truth. Accidentally, (2cb induced) I experienced ego death and rebirth and then had kundalini awakening. I had experienced the most blissful and divine moments in my life. I was seeing the aureole above my head for like a week (wow, how come?) and absolutely empty peaceful mind and full of love and joy heart for like three weeks. 
I promised myself that in this life, I will do everything to create the state where I could naturally experience the same joy for at least one more moment, even if I would be lying in a death bed and it would be the last moment of my life, I felt it would still be worth it to dedicate my life to reach for it. This is how powerful the experience was.

However, during these years (it's been almost 5 years since I had the awakening) I feel that I made very little progress. Always standing in between my dream to awaken once more and living a normal life. I can't connect to my vision anymore. I'm afraid of dedicating my life to awakening and never getting there or not overcoming these realisations of meaninglessness.

It feels that results come very slowly, I don't have enough motivation, I feel lonely. There is no one in my life to support me with this.
And so now I question this quest to enlightenment while still deep down in my heart I know that there is nothing more beautiful than to awake. 

But I feel lost. I understand that I need to self-actualise before I could Self-Actualise. But I found myself lost in contradictions. 
For example, I want to exercise and have a great shape which creates pride and also helps me to attract nice guys. But on the other hand, I see this fitness endeavour as vanity and insignificant in the context of discovering the Absolute. 

Moreover, I see myself craving for pride and showing off how good I look or how hard I work or how better or aware I am. I'm so tired sometimes of keeping myself in check all the time from feeling pride, from being judgmental or above someone else. The more I work on raising my awareness the harder and more contradictory it becomes. 

I have the why for Self-actualising because I had a direct experience of awakening and this is the best reference point one can have. However, I don't live in a monastery but in an urban jungle and I can't work on discovering the Absolute, because I first need to pay the bills and maintain relationships. 

I can't find the why for self-actualising for working and dedicating myself to something. I don't really know what's important anymore. If it's important at all. 
 

Man that is all some deep truths there my man.  And your awakening sounds a lot like mine.   That's awesome.   And i totally get the paradoxical nature - i have felt all the same feelings.  All of them.   Actually after my awakenings i was afraid of going insane for a while  - with ego death and losing the sense of self..(and due to the seeming contradiction between ego and God).so i actually put the focus back on the ego for a while.  See the thing is - i came to grasp That's its OK to embrace the imaginary ego as well as your True self.  Just in a much more conscious way.  And i know you have probably heard this before around here but think of it as a video game - when you play a video game you know the game isn't real - but yet you still enjoy the game and try to do the best you can in the game.  Why? Just for the sake of the game.  The fact that is a game in that case makes it even more glorious.  That's kinda how reality works.  Its OK to embrace the ego - its the only way you will really be able to enjoy this life.  At the same time you can still minimize selfishness and show compassion for others.  And you can still bask in the Truth as well, as it is always present   but you need passion and drive in this life to put you into a position where you can enjoy just sitting and basking in the present moment.  I would try to steer away from seeking another mystical experience though - it will just happen on its own like it did before.  And if it doesn't that's OK.  All is still divine. I know that's easier said then done - when you realize that God exists it is quite a thing.  Just my take of course.