“Direct” experience does NOT exist

[zeroISinfinity]

4 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Beingness is direct. Right now.

Experience happens in reverse - to put it that way. It's a 'lag'.

 

What lag when it's timeless. 

[Someone here]

Direct being doesn't exist as long as you think "you" exist.  get rid of the experiencer. 

Seeing is sight. Hearing is sound. The feeler of feelings is a feeling. There is no experiencer experiencing experience. Collapse that duality and what is left is direct being. 

 

[kai0]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@r0ckyreed The color red is the color red. It is exactly what it is.

yeah but then there is a missing story of the color red

[Shin]

6 minutes ago, kai0 said:

yeah but then there is a missing story of the color red

What do you mean ?

Edited October 13, 2020 by Shin

[r0ckyreed]

2 hours ago, kai0 said:

yeah but then there is a missing story of the color red

@Shin I think he means that the story about color (coming from light rays into my optic nerve, rods and cones, and being transferred and perceived by my brain to be color). 
 

when I am just with the color red fully, all that is there is the Direct Experience of it with no imaginary story behind what is being Directly Experienced. Even the story of me seeing red will vanish, and it will be just Pure Being. And there may not even be a “color red” because that itself is an imaginary distinction within Direct Experience. 
 

@kai0 Feel free you correct my interpretation of what you said. It is just my imagination of what I believe you meant.

Edited October 13, 2020 by r0ckyreed

[Shin]

22 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

@Shin I think he means that the story about color (coming from light rays into my optic nerve, rods and cones, and being transferred and perceived by my brain to be color). 
 

when I am just with the color red fully, all that is there is the Direct Experience of it with no imaginary story behind what is being Directly Experienced. Even the story of me seeing red will vanish, and it will be just Pure Being. And there may not even be a “color red” because that itself is an imaginary distinction within Direct Experience. 
 

@kai0 Feel free you correct my interpretation of what you said. It is just my imagination of what I believe you meant.

Ok thank you ?

Yeah it is quite crazy at first, but all those explanations are stories in the mind.

Even the sensations you feel is entirely created and technically mind stuff.

When you feel a pain in the chest you literally create a body out of thin air to feel the pain. The pain is also created of course. ?

[Jonty]

@r0ckyreed Something that really helped me with getting lost in concepts and imagination was this:-

First of all please understand that in order to communicate this, I must use concepts and language and ask you to imagine not imagining anything! 

Whilst sitting doing your contemplation, imagine you live in a world where concept and imagination do not exist. Now, look out at your direct experience. Notice that whilst in this world and being unable to refer to imagination and concept you have no idea where you are, what you are looking at or indeed even know what existence is. Also notice that without thought and imagination, "you" also cease to exist. In fact, you wouldn't even know that you were born. Could you point then to being a "thing?" No way! All you could do is "be". 

Sit with that for a while. It helped me a lot. Hope it helps you too ?

Edited October 13, 2020 by Jonty

[ivankiss]

6 hours ago, zeroISinfinity said:

What lag when it's timeless. 

A lag in perception.

[r0ckyreed]

7 hours ago, Jonty said:

@r0ckyreed Something that really helped me with getting lost in concepts and imagination was this:-

First of all please understand that in order to communicate this, I must use concepts and language and ask you to imagine not imagining anything! 

Whilst sitting doing your contemplation, imagine you live in a world where concept and imagination do not exist. Now, look out at your direct experience. Notice that whilst in this world and being unable to refer to imagination and concept you have no idea where you are, what you are looking at or indeed even know what existence is. Also notice that without thought and imagination, "you" also cease to exist. In fact, you wouldn't even know that you were born. Could you point then to being a "thing?" No way! All you could do is "be". 

Sit with that for a while. It helped me a lot. Hope it helps you too ?

Very nice thanks this helped me. I ultimately realized as I was looking at my hand is that there actually is no hand. All that is there is what is there. A hand is a distinction in direct experience. 
 

The Waking Up app has also helped me out with the concept of headlessness that Douglas Harding discusses. Richard Lang who is one of Harding’s disciples has a practice session on the app that I think is quite helpful.

[Carl-Richard]

Everytime you have to mention the brain, you're in la-la land.

[r0ckyreed]

The brain, Coronavirus, emotions, politics, and the external world are imaginary.

Edited October 13, 2020 by r0ckyreed

[Mvrs]

19 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

So I watched Actuality vs. Concept (great episode btw). But a question came to my mind after I read Jed McKenna’s chapter on the veil of perception. Jed basically tells us to look at our hands and notice that we do NOT and cannot experience them directly. We only experience the world indirectly. 
 

We do not experience ACTUAL reality. The only thing that is perceived is consciousness or perception itself. There is no evidence that our perceptions are based in reality.

I find the basic idea of “direct” experience to be true. There is nothing outside of consciousness. I think of consciousness and “direct” experience or actuality as the same thing. However, since we do not experience reality directly, we should just call it “experience” or “consciousness” or “actuality” instead of “direct” experience because this notion of direct experience seems to imply that we have a direct experience of reality. But the fact is, is that we do not know if reality even exists. 
 

I mean if our imaginary brain is perceiving the world, then this shows that we only have a secondary experience of reality. Everything else is being interpreted by imaginary neurons and nervous system, which is itself an idea. So we do not experience an ACTUAL hand or ACTUAL reality, but the perceptions of a hand and reality.  Consciousness itself and the room I am in now is what I think is meant by actuality, but we should not call it “direct” experience. To you, my room and “me” is a concept, and even “you” and your rooms are concepts to “me.” Gosh this is confusing lol. Man I am literally typing to an imaginary friend lol.

This is as direct experience as you can have of reality your imaginary brain is imaginary it’s a concept unless someone else wants to take a peak at it . No neurons or nervous system. Reality is groundless making it all equally real because none of it is real. So what your experiencing is not secondary this is raw your just imagine it’s secondary through a brain 

in your dreams you think the music on the radio is coming from technology you think your body is real you think the same things like brains are what are making u see the world 

nothing is interpreting the world and your perceptions but your through and your consciousness 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Mvrs

[John Doe]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes we do. Here it is. Directly. Absolute Truth.

But there is nothing here? I can only sense a human being sitting in a room in front of a laptop typing this question to you. And the 'real me' has somehow taken on the identity of this particular piece of flesh and bone that is typing right now. This cannot be Absolute Truth because the question "who am I?" is still unanswered. What am I missing exactly?

[Jonty]

@John Doe You're getting lost in concepts by the sound of it. 

Forget what you think you know about enlightenment or the "Who Am I?" question, those are concepts and imagination. Same as what you think is going on with the person sitting in the chair typing the message. 

Look at your direct experience. Don't think, look!

Enlightenment isn't a thought or knowledge. 

Hope this helps man ?

[Someone here]

Anything outside this present moment exactly as it is.. Is just a myth.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Someone here

[Inliytened1]

32 minutes ago, John Doe said:

But there is nothing here? I can only sense a human being sitting in a room in front of a laptop typing this question to you. And the 'real me' has somehow taken on the identity of this particular piece of flesh and bone that is typing right now. This cannot be Absolute Truth because the question "who am I?" is still unanswered. What am I missing exactly?

Perhaps some self inquiry is in order? What you actually are is not localized in any way its omnipresent.  Everywhere and nowhere. Hence pure Actuality!

[r0ckyreed]

54 minutes ago, Mvrs said:

This is as direct experience as you can have of reality your imaginary brain is imaginary it’s a concept unless someone else wants to take a peak at it .

Someone else is also imaginary. This forum and everything that I typed so far has been imaginary. 

 

40 minutes ago, John Doe said:

But there is nothing here? I can only sense a human being sitting in a room in front of a laptop typing this question to you. And the 'real me' has somehow taken on the identity of this particular piece of flesh and bone that is typing right now. This cannot be Absolute Truth because the question "who am I?" is still unanswered. What am I missing exactly?

The idea that you are a human at a computer, typing on this forum is imaginary. There is no real you. What you are is a concept held within Direct Experience or God or Consciousness or Actuality or Now, whatever you wanna call what is right in front of your imaginary nose.

 

The Absolute Truth is NOW and it is Eternal. Existence is in your Direct Experience. Anything you imagine to be outside of your Direct Experience is still inside your Direct Experience.  
 

There is NO you that is experiencing the Universe. Rather it is the Universe that is pretending and imagining to be you. This life is just a play, and this forum is full of actors. But even to say all of this is too conceptual and takes us away from what is Actual. You are That.

[justfortoday]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

There is NO you that is experiencing the Universe. Rather it is the Universe that is pretending and imagining to be you. This life is just a play, and this forum is full of actors. But even to say all of this is too conceptual and takes us away from what is Actual. You are That.

You’re speaking about in such a certain manner, changing from your original post. You’re still making dualistic distinctions.

You DO have a Self (capital S). Your ego is not your true self, it’s a mask.

There is ONE self in existence. There IS a you. Its just that the ONE self is experiencing all the characters simultaneously.

There is no universe, no time, nothing. 

Just one self, dreaming infinite lives.

”No self” is only partially true. You do in fact exist, but you’re not a human being in your truest nature, but pure nothingness, full of everything.

 

[John Doe]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

The idea that you are a human at a computer, typing on this forum is imaginary. There is no real you. What you are is a concept held within Direct Experience or God or Consciousness or Actuality or Now, whatever you wanna call what is right in front of your imaginary nose.

@r0ckyreed But then, who is it that is actually conscious of the fact? Just hold your hand in front of you and snap your fingers, and listen to the sound that it generates. Now who is it that is actually aware of that snapping sound? Yes it certainly is not the body or the mind. But someone or something is definitely conscious of the same, don't you agree? It feels like there is 'someone' behind this shell of a persona, watching very observantly, non-judgmentally of everything that is happening. It also feels like whatever this thing that is watching closely is, it must be sort of immune or unfazed by the events on the outside. This is what I could gather so far, do let me know what you think.

[r0ckyreed]

3 hours ago, justfortoday said:

You’re speaking about in such a certain manner, changing from your original post. You’re still making dualistic distinctions.

You DO have a Self (capital S). Your ego is not your true self, it’s a mask.

There is ONE self in existence. There IS a you. Its just that the ONE self is experiencing all the characters simultaneously.

There is no universe, no time, nothing. 

Just one self, dreaming infinite lives.

”No self” is only partially true. You do in fact exist, but you’re not a human being in your truest nature, but pure nothingness, full of everything.

 

I think we are talking about the same thing, but just using different concepts. 
 

I do not have a Self.  The Self just is with no owner.  When I look at my hand, it is actual. When I am thinking of Infinite lives, it is imagination.  But even this is wrong because I see now that there is no looking no looker, and no hand, and not even an “I” that understands because all of that is imaginary. 

There is no you because you implies a me. That is duality, but it sounds like that what you mean by You is what I mean by Universe. It’s just what is. 

All that there is, is Direct Experience. What I mean by the Universe is Direct Experience.  Everything else is imagination.

Edited October 14, 2020 by r0ckyreed