Grownig My Relationship

[Artur]

 Hello everyone!

 I want to make this topic so that people can share some relationship problem solving examples, as well as ideas and actions that might help the personal growth of both partners.

 I'll start this with a question of my own, but any insights are very welcome.

I'm in a relationship with a wonderful girl. We have our ups and downs, but everything seems to be on the brighter side most of the time. Of course, same as any other relationship, we get to disagree about things, fight, make up, bet happy for a couple of days, then disagree again, fight, make up... and it rolls the same way. It mostly feels that problems get solved to some extend, but there is a bigger problem. I feel that my knowledge about human behavior, bias, critical thinking, personal growth and development faaaaar exceed my girlfriends. So we mostly fight because of destructive routines within her behavior. Close minded reactions to things, dogmatic beliefs and lack of self awareness. She is always in a hurry. I hate that... i hate that so much and yet i know i should find a way to not be judgemental towards her about it, since she only rationalizes stuff and defends like crazy, i know i need to be patient so that she could extend her perspectives a step at a time. Yet i'm in a pickle... her life tempo is insane most of the time and i have to be affected by it, since we live together, do stuff together. When i'm alone i get piece of mind, I can focus on my things, do stuff very effectively, i'm very calm, happy and focused. But whenever she intrudes i get angry for no reason, can't focus properly, can't relax or even pay attention since she talks 50% about stuff that makes sense to think about and 50% about stuff that doesn't matter. I get tiered and worn out... even though I love her very much, since she is an amazing person. Could some of you give me an insight on what i'm being ignorant about her. Please don't sympathize, i want cold hard truth, i can take it and question myself as deeply as i have to make this work.

As i said earlier, you can share you relationship growth experiences, and as much detail as is needed for the massage to be clear.

Thank you! 

[Key Elements]

I like how you said that you want to hear the cold hard truth. For me, when any close relationship becomes negative, I just go to my room and work on my life purpose. Sometimes silence and being detached is golden. One does not need to have control over everything all the time. Answers do come automatically if one does enough self-inquiry. 

One very important thing I noticed in this life is that a 3rd party cannot interfere in a relationship. In other words, no one can tell you what you can and cannot do and make the decision for you.

I think nothing can succeed without some level of detachment. A deeper thing to focus on is your life purpose. 

Here's Leo's clip on detachment...

You don't have to quit the relationship. I rather not. Everyone has the potential of growing and discovering themselves. However, we don't have time to waste on petty little arguments. We have a life mission to fulfill. 

In the clip below, the petty little arguments are the cups, not the coffee.

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Key Elements

[Pelin]

I feel you @Artur . I have similar relationships in my life and sometimes we are weak and we judge people, especially if their behaviour invades our comfort zone. It is very hard not to judge. Yet we need to learn how not to judge with practice and practice.

But as self-love is about acceptance, love towards other is also about acceptance I believe. It is paradoxical in nature but you can only improve if you accept yourself and you can only help her improve if you accept her as she is. Listen to her carefully. Even if she interrupts, hold yourself, don't interrupt. Just mention that being interrupted bothers you next time. Try to listen more though. Think about the therapists, they just ask the right questions and from then on, they listen and listen. They never lecture.

Please don't lecture your girlfriend, don't ever say stuff like "you're not conscious" etc. That I found out very destructive, people get really defensive and resist change. Just try to set an example, most people mirror the behaviour of people they have close relationships with. This is what is happening in our 4-year-old relationship. I have become so conscious about some things thanks to him, and he has become much calmer since our relationship started.

 

[Ricksta]

Dear Artur

An interesting post, and I will throw in my two cents. Let's look at some of the things you mention. I'm going to nitpick through some parts of your message and then give you a recipe of something you need to do.

Overall you mention some positive things about this girl, she's wonderful, she's amazing, and things are bright most of the time so I would say stick it out for now. The thing is that your behaviour patterns remain largely the same so if you move on to another relationship you would in all likelyhood experience similar difficulties even though it's a new partner. And from what it seems is that your difficulties here are not that major and can definitely be solved satisfactorily.

Two things I would watch out for though is that you mention you fight, make up etc. but it seems as if the frequency is about one fight a week? Truly if you want to actualise yourself this is too much. A lot of people would probably disagree with me here, however I have been down this road before and if you are really busy working on personal growth, meditating, trying to get your career on track and so on then you don't have time for a weekly rumble. It takes up a lot of time, overruns your body with toxic emotional chemicals and generally isn't conducive to growth.

Secondly problems need to be solved fully and permanently, not "mostly". This needs to be accomplished without compromise but rather through understanding and brainstorming solutions together. If a problem is not fully resolved a residual remains. This residual is often referred to as "unfinished business". At some point the unfinished business in your relationship will be too much to resolve and the relationship will effectively be over. Even if you try to resolve some issues at this point it won't make sense because there will be so many "bits" of unfinished business that you wouldn't know where to start. Introduce some patience into your resolution sessions, allow the issues to come fully out onto the table before looking for a solution that both parties are happy with.

Communication forms a beautiful circle between two people, the more you judge, criticise and comment on her behaviour, the more she is going to be in a hurry to get away from this. Your continuous commenting on her behaviour will make her feel criticised, unwanted and not good enough and she is coping with this feeling by keeping busy and being in too much of a "hurry" to give you less of a gap to continue your commenting on her. Every time she runs away with her busy life you will feel neglected, rushed and unimportant. Her high and fast life tempo is what she needs in order to be with you. It's rather ingenious I'd say. The question is, what are you going to do about it? Do you want to continue to harass her and comment intellectually on her level of actualisation? Do you want to continue to make her feel bad and force her to distance herself by keeping busy? Every time you comment on her behaviour you achieve this. Or... Do you want to make her feel appreciated, wanted and loved? You see, right now you are approaching this situation with your logical self. You observe and comment and try to take the high road by assuming that you are further developed than her. This may very well be the case, but in order to have a mutually satisfying relationship this approach will get you nowhere.

I have a lot more to say on this however it will turn into a book! So I'm going to end by giving you a recipe of something that you need to do. I'm expecting you not to do it but here it is anyway:

Tell your partner you want to spend a weekend with her. The goal is to walk a mile in each others shoes and this is how you are going to do it. Firstly she can participate in your life and secondly you participate in her life over the course of three days (Friday to Sunday). Friday you have your tent and camping things packed, not too much, just enough for one night. You and your partner head out to a camping spot after work and tent it out for the night. You cook dinner together, make a good fire, stare at the fire and tell each other what you see. There is to be minimal talking for the rest of the night, just experience. Next morning organise a good breakfast, pack up and go home. ideally this should not be more than say 1.5 hours drive from home. Now, Saturday from about 10:30am onwards it's your turn. Your partner needs to have all her "busy life stuff" lined up and you are going to accompany her on everything. You will run to all the shops, and all the things she wants to do. You are not to open your mouth. No complaining. Just doing. Go with her and experience. Do this for the whole saturday, until the ned of the day. Good luck and collapse on your bed at night when she has run you down. No talking. Sunday morning wake up and head out to a coffee shop. Here, both of you get 30 minutes a piece to share what it was like to spend a day with the other person and to completely do what the other person wanted to do.

[flhugoboss]

100% right on the money Ricksta.

i like to add:

you said, "even though I love her very much, since she is an amazing person". yeah sex is amazing too right? how do i know...you can't have it in perfect everything in life. May be she is not your perfect but just your amazing person. First, you need to set some "boundary" for yourself and make her known. There is time for 50% make sense and 50% you don't want to hear and be self-meditation. Second, you want to make it work, great. Then work on YOURSELF not on HER. Do you GET IT? Once she sees the change in you, she will change with YOU.   

Edited September 2, 2016 by flhugoboss

[Artur]

@Key Elements

Thank you very much for taking time to answer. I looked into everything you posted, yet found most of the suggestions not that closely relevant. Please bare with me, i mean no disrespect. The idea of detachment withing a relationship had proven, in my own experience, to be harmful. It might have some positive outcome of sorts if both parties are living lives of there own not basing there goals on the relationship,yet that kind of function can hardly be considered as a relationship then. When it comes to building a life together it is not about Me or Her separately, its about US. This fundamental understanding of what relationship is, makes detachment more of an Ego based destructive defense mechanism rather then a building block.

As for the motivational video. It is a very wise perspective to understand that materialistic things don't play that big of a role when it comes to joyful life states achievement. Of course you need to have SOME kind of a cup to drink the coffee from in the first place. Pretty or simple for that matter. It does not make that much difference what cup you will chose as long as it makes the drinking coffee experience a pleasant one. We are all different, we all ourselves decide what materialistic quality of life is suitable for our life goals, as long as one doesn't forget the main direction.

 

[Artur]

@Pelin

I really liked your perspective on this. I read your answer right after a similar situation was sorted this way. I didn't judge, didn't say anything about her reactions or behavior, just listened till she was all out, then said that something that happens between us makes me very upset and angry sometimes, I don't want to feel that way, what should i do to deal with it.  First, of course, she kept lecturing me on what i should do, yet some logic of her own pointed inward quite fast and we solved the issue. The actual thing that came out is exactly what you said. Acceptance. We didn't accept each other for who we are. It took some very open and vulnerable sharing to completely solve the argument. 

Now she is a bit calmer, less in a hurry and some of hear fears that made her act that way are a lot less apparent. Same goes for me. I manage to handle a lot more of her life rhythm, be a bit more understanding and patient. I certainty hope so.

Thank you very much for your answer @Pelin It was a very insightful advice. Really hope you will stay in this discussion and share some more of your experiences and perspectives.

[Artur]

@Ricksta

On 8/29/2016 at 0:09 PM, Ricksta said:

A lot of people would probably disagree with me here, however I have been down this road before and if you are really busy working on personal growth, meditating, trying to get your career on track and so on then you don't have time for a weekly rumble. It takes up a lot of time, overruns your body with toxic emotional chemicals and generally isn't conducive to growth.

The thing is that It's not really a suitable choice to make. If my relationship is bothering me, I am a lot worse at my work, my activities and the actual process of personal growth. Simply because the very very important and valuable evening together time is more of inner battle then a pleasure. I would have to remind myself that this is not a good time to do this, I don't have time for this now, etc. So weekly rumble is something that needs to be solved whether i like the frequency of this occurrence or I don't.  Surprisingly enough relationship struggles has become the most intense personal growth process out of wast majority of the ones I encountered. Simply because relationships challenge the inner YOU on daily basis, so every small inner imbalance becomes apparent very very fast.

On 8/29/2016 at 0:09 PM, Ricksta said:

Secondly problems need to be solved fully and permanently, not "mostly". This needs to be accomplished without compromise but rather through understanding and brainstorming solutions together.

It would be rather harsh approach to solve every issue to its very core. Because it requires a very strong inner motivation  for increasing self awareness. Challenging your beliefs on daily basis is not something that happens without effort. Honestly, I still see very little of that motivation in my girlfriend. Making a one way discussion doesn't help. All the brainstorming happens with very little self awareness and understanding on the other end. The discussion becomes defensive whenever the EGO is challenged. And I'm not talking just about her. I'm at fault for this no less. I find it to be nearly impossible at the very moment to react patiently to an explosion of defensive dogmatic blaming and criticism. Maybe I will be able to do this with time. I always try very hard, but when I slip into defensiveness the result of the discussion is very destructive.

Compromise is a solution. But i find it not to be the complete, 100% solution of the issue. Compromise, although being very useful and positive for the most part, is sort of a step towards the solution, but it leaves unfinished business on both sides.

Lastly about your recipe.

I really liked the overall idea. We do take turns to do what the other one wants and then talk about it. Not in such extreme ways, but I do believe this is a very good advice. Hopefully someday we will do this in a similar fashion.

Thank you very much for all your insights @Ricksta

Some of my replies right now might be a little less open minded since I'm quite angry after another occurrence of defensive discussion warfare. But I was very excited to answer to such mindful perspectives from people in this forum.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by Artur

[Key Elements]

@Artur

We may be having different perspectives on relationships. I don't see a detached relationship as "ego." To my understanding, "being detached" and "what is ego" are two different words and two different things. 

I don't usually comment in the area of relationships because the life that I live is different from most ppl's. We're all different anyway. But, I decided to comment on your post because I really like how you said,

"Please don't sympathize, i want cold hard truth, i can take it and question myself as deeply as i have to make this work."

When you said that, I was thinking something like this...

"I'm bold. Bring it on! I could take life as it comes." 

It reminds me of my role models.

I wish you the best in your relationship, and hope it works out. 

The both of you might just need some time off to think things over.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Key Elements

[Artur]

@Key Elements

That is very well possible. Let me try to exaggerate on what I meant.

Being detached is sort of a way to be making decisions for yourself without being affected by externals. I'm very happy by myself. My life is great. Truly.

I don't feel that I'm dependent on this relationship. With all the struggles it feels like the perfect situation for personal growth. Moreover I truly care for the person that I am with. Not for the sake of me. And I'm not afraid to lose anything that came with the relationship, nor the relationship itself, if such an outcome would be wise.

I guess what I tried to say earlier is that to me, detachment in the relationship could be all to easily mistaken with running from relationship problems, ego can easily use the idea of detachment as a defense mechanism. A "comfort zone" within ones lifestyle can be considered as a state of detachment that is constantly being invaded by a loving partner who is trying to break some light on what she/he might be considering to be a dogma. I would agree that without some level of detachment the relationship will be dysfunctional, yet making detachment the main criteria for relationship problem solving would also be an overkill, if you will.

[Pelin]

7 hours ago, Artur said:

Acceptance. We didn't accept each other for who we are. It took some very open and vulnerable sharing to completely solve the argument. 

Now she is a bit calmer, less in a hurry and some of her fears that made her act that way are a lot less apparent. Same goes for me. I manage to handle a lot more of her life rhythm, be a bit more understanding and patient. I certainty hope so.

Acceptance is a long road. A lifetime even, so do not give up if it doesn't work out next time. Just try again and again, and I am really happy to see that both of you are willing to work it out  

There are many couples we see everyday,like my grandma and grandpa (aged 95 and 98) who are still trying to change each other! A lifetime wasted, in my opinion. Time more than 75 years was not enough for them to accept each other for who they are. The earlier we start to love each other with every flaw (of course I'm not talking about physical and emotional violence), the more we can start to bear the fruits of a nurturing relationship.

About detachment, while too much attachment to the degree where you don't know yourself is clearly not desirable, too much detachment may turn into a lack of genuinity, so it is a very delicate balance in my opinion.

[Key Elements]

@Artur

I just want to point this out. If you disagree, that's ok too--no problem. Most of the times, I realize that in conversations/arguments, that the whole discussion was not necessary. From my experience, not just with the intimate relationship (but with any relationships), most discussions are just labels. It's like we get upset at the wrong things, so we put wrong labels on them. I'm sure when I'm saying this, there are so many examples. It's like the whole discussion could be dropped completely. And then, we could've just went and worked on our life purpose all this time, or something important. I'm just saying this. You don't have to agree.

Plus, I realized that if a person wants to improve a relationship or anything else, there has to be some counter-intuitive change in the routine. It could be a baby step change that could eventually add up.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Key Elements

[Artur]

@Key Elements@Pelin

By all mean my friend. We all have our perspectives. My life is very different from yours and so my perspectives are based on a different experience.  That is the reason I find none judgemental discussions with no blame or defensiveness to be of a great value. This are very very rare, simply because people tend to be oblivious to their defensive state of mind within a fiery discussion. Me no less then others.

I accept your points of view as much as I am capable to do so at the very moment.  And am very very thankful for you taking time to share them.

I would like to maintain this discussion until it gets to some kind of finite conclusion, simply because it might mean that i am being oblivious to some aspect of this notions. Thus I have some more questions on the subject.

I agree with @Pelin

16 hours ago, Pelin said:

About detachment, while too much attachment to the degree where you don't know yourself is clearly not desirable, too much detachment may turn into a lack of genuinity, so it is a very delicate balance in my opinion.

I guess the entire idea of balance is a very valuable concept. As far as i can tell almost every argument required a balanced point of view on both sides (not too clingy, not too detached and etc.) to achieve absolute solution without going for compromise. To achieve that, both sides have to question themselves, there intentions and goals withing there lives for the relationship to become a supportive piece of there wholeness rather than an anchor.

@Key Elements In all honesty I fail to see a way for a discussion/ arguments to be unnecessary. For starters if an argument had ground to arise it is on its own reason enough to think about it. What made this argument arise? Was it something I did or something I was oblivious too? How did the other person felt during the argument? How did I feel during the argument? What did I/other want to achieve with this argument? Have I been defensive, ignorant, patient, aggressive, indifferent etc.? Was I trying to prove something? Was I insecure about something? How can I react differently and what will change? and the questions can go on for a fairly long time till one figures out a more open minded approach to a situation and try again in hope for step forward. The entire process requires very intense self inquiry and is very hard to accomplish because of its deceptive nature, yet isn't this the personal growth work we are all so hungry for?

Gathering information is a great way to have material for problem solving. Tools if you will. Weather this knowledge is gathered for materialistic (security and stability) or none-materialistic (like being happy or fulfilled)  goals. Even though materialistic knowledge usage is pretty straight forward, none-materialistic concepts on the other hand are very  vague when it comes to applying them to ones self. I'm saying this, because all the information gathered for self actualization is meant to reveal the wrongly labeled concepts and worked them out. Even if it is very counter intuitive, scary and challenging. Our entire life purpose changes along with our growth.

Please, try not to take any of this as a one sided statement. I fully accept the fact that I can very well be wrong and that this perspective has a wider approach to it. Thank you deeply @Key Elements and @Pelin for taking the time to be a part of this discussion.

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Artur

[Key Elements]

1 hour ago, Artur said:

 My life is very different from yours and so my perspectives are based on a different experience.  

Yes, very true. I agree. However, if you want to see it from a different perspective, you have to do the heavy lifting. You have to experience it for yourself and accept and live through the consequences, if there are any. (Leo even mentioned the heavy lifting part in his most recent clip - 64 Most Fascinating Questions...) It's just so easy to accept a similar perspective. 

 

1 hour ago, Artur said:

 

I guess the entire idea of balance is a very valuable concept. 

 

 

It depends on how one defines the idea of balance. We human beings' idea of balance are not the same. For example, some can be very detached and tolerate "long distance" relationships so much more than others. Who are we to judge when this happens? No, we cannot judge.

Buddha, for example, left his wife and child to help humanity, and then he came back home - long story. Aung San Su Gyi of Myanmar (Burma) did the same thing - leaving behind husband and children for years in another country. She also had to help (her country and won Nobel Peace Prize). I mean, these are extreme examples of detachment for most people. I'm talking about it on a lesser scale. Some people have to go on business trips for weeks, and the spouse stays home with children. Heck, even our beloved Leo is in a long distance relationship. He said it so many times. How do they manage? You see, no one can explain this to anyone, unless the person actually experiences with the situation.

It's like..have you eaten an orange in your life? No. Well then, you won't ever know how it tastes like. No one will be able to explain it to you, unless you taste it / eat it.

Yes, I have experienced this in my life, and that's why I'm sharing it in this way.

Best of journey. Truely...take care.

[Artur]

@Key Elements

I guess I'm starting to get what you mean when you talk about detachment. If i understand correctly, you mean that within a relationship both people would not be limited in there passions or any life decisions by the relationship.

If that statement is correct, would the achievement of such state in the relationship would need work or one rather search for a partner capable of it right away?

[Key Elements]

@Artur

You see, I cannot answer these questions for you. The relationship is between the two -- you and her. I can only tell you what I have experienced with detachment, and what I saw and read according to my experience. If I answered these questions for you, I could be shedding the wrong light.

[Artur]

@Key Elements

I thought you would say that

And I understand why.

This kind of choice is up to me to make.

Thank you very much for all your insights. I wish you all the best. Take care

 

[Key Elements]

Just wanted to add one more thing...no matter how close you are to someone...?